What is the Gospel?

Chinchilla

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You may have misunderstood what I wrote. The good news - the gospel - is what Jesus taught for the full time of his life on Earth. It is what Jesus said and did that teaches us what the gospel is. The idea that you can dump the four gospels as "old testament" is wrong; horribly wrong.

That's what phariasies accused Jesus of doing when he came.

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Gospels are OT untill Christ died , Church started at pentecost , period .
Church wouldn't even be there if Jews accepted Messiah , they would have the judgement short after and the Kingdom of God .

Cross is most basic division in Bible , if you do not understand it I can't help you .
 
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JIMINZ

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Jesus’ enemies among the Jews hated the God of Love revealed in the life of Christ. They also resented the idea of sharing Yahweh equally with the Gentile world. They suffered from national egotism and erronious ideas about a “Jewish Messiah”. As a result of their attitude they were deselected, their house was left desolate, the light was given on to other people.

.
WRONG ! ! !
 
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GingerBeer

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That's what phariasies accused Jesus of doing when he came.

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Gospels are OT untill Christ died , Church started at pentecost , period .
Church wouldn't even be there if Jews accepted Messiah , they would have the judgement short after and the Kingdom of God .

Cross is most basic division in Bible , if you do not understand it I can't help you .
If you agree with the Pharisees then you'd be accusing Jesus of breaking the law and desecrating the Sabbath which is an absurdity given that scripture asserts that Jesus did no wrong and kept the law.

But your posts keep teaching us to dismiss the four gospels as "old testament" which is wrong, horribly wrong.
  • For one thing, no practitioner of Judaism living today receives the four gospels as old testament scripture,
  • and for another, every Christian church teaches that the four gospels are new testament scripture.
The four gospels are the heart and core of the new testament - together they make up 155 pages out of 339 pages in my KJV NT. So if we took the position advocated in your posts then the new testament would lose a little less than half of its content and we'd have only Acts, Paul's letters, the general letters, and the Revelation as New Testament scripture, leaving us with a 183 page new testament. The idea is an absurdity created by (if I am rightly informed) Dispensational interpretive methods. No Christian ought to subordinate the scriptures to a nineteenth century interpretative scheme created by people from an obscure sect in England.
 
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Chinchilla said in post #41:

Gospel of Kingdom had works in it , for gentiles it's free gift .

Note that there is only one Gospel, for both Jews and Gentiles (Romans 1:16-17).

Also, under this one Gospel, initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9), no matter whether we're Jews or Gentiles.

But other passages show that Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).
 
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Chinchilla said in post #71:

[Re: Someone who rejects parts of the NT]

Seems like you cherry pick what you want or what you believe

When anyone does that, it is very dangerous for that person.

For the Bible's inerrancy is taught by the Bible itself (2 Timothy 3:16-17), while the idea of the Bible's errancy renders it useless. For then we can claim that any part of the Bible which we personally do not like is in error. And so we vitiate the whole purpose of the Bible, which is to be "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Timothy 3:16b-17). That is, if the Bible were errant, we could reject its doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness whenever we personally felt like it (2 Timothy 4:3-4), claiming that it is in error in that instance.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 shows that in a wrong desire to continue in their lusts without repentance, even Christians can reach the point where they become no longer able to endure the sound doctrine of the Bible, and instead seek out and latch onto any false teachings which will help to support them in their lusts (1 Timothy 4:1-2).

But it is the Bible which is able to make people wise unto salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ (2 Timothy 3:15; 1 Peter 1:23-25, Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, James 1:18). All of the Bible's teachings were given by the inspiration of God, and so they are all true and God's Word (2 Timothy 3:16 to 4:4). Jesus Christ says: "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed" (John 8:31). Christians must be willing to die before they would deny any part of His Word (Mark 8:35-38). One of Satan's prime aims is to get people to reject all or parts of God's Word, and start believing something else which sounds better to them as humans (Genesis 3:1-6, Matthew 16:21-23; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 4:3-4), but which cannot save their souls, so that they will end up suffering in fire and brimstone with Satan and his fallen angels forever (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11).
 
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Chinchilla said in post #93:

The one literal Kingdom for 1000 years is not for me it's for the Jews the remament which will be saved from Tribulation plus the OT resurrected saints .

Revelation 20:4-6 does not mean that only those Christians who will be beheaded by the future Antichrist will be resurrected in the "first resurrection" and reign on the earth with Jesus Christ during the still-future Millennium. For the "first resurrection" will be the physical resurrection of all Christians (of all times) at Jesus' future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). And every obedient Christian (of all times) will reign on the earth with Jesus during the Millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10).

Also, all obedient believers who died during Old Testament times are now part of the Church in heaven (Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24). For now there are no believers outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6). And 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Peter 3:18c-19, and Ephesians 4:9 show that there was a post-resurrection descent of Jesus Christ into Hades to preach the fulfillment of the Gospel (of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) to the souls of the dead in Hades, after which preaching, Jesus ascended into heaven with all of the souls of those in Hades who had died in faith (Ephesians 4:8-9, Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24).
 
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Chinchilla

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If you agree with the Pharisees then you'd be accusing Jesus of breaking the law and desecrating the Sabbath which is an absurdity given that scripture asserts that Jesus did no wrong and kept the law.

But your posts keep teaching us to dismiss the four gospels as "old testament" which is wrong, horribly wrong.
  • For one thing, no practitioner of Judaism living today receives the four gospels as old testament scripture,
  • and for another, every Christian church teaches that the four gospels are new testament scripture.
The four gospels are the heart and core of the new testament - together they make up 155 pages out of 339 pages in my KJV NT. So if we took the position advocated in your posts then the new testament would lose a little less than half of its content and we'd have only Acts, Paul's letters, the general letters, and the Revelation as New Testament scripture, leaving us with a 183 page new testament. The idea is an absurdity created by (if I am rightly informed) Dispensational interpretive methods. No Christian ought to subordinate the scriptures to a nineteenth century interpretative scheme created by people from an obscure sect in England.

When you write a testament , does it take power when you are still alive or after you die ?
 
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GingerBeer

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When you write a testament , does it take power when you are still alive or after you die ?
A covenant is not exactly the same thing as a testament nevertheless Paul does use the simile of a will (testament) when he describes the inauguration of the new covenant and he does make reference to the death of the testator. Is that what you're thinking about in your post?
Hebrews 9:11-22 But Christ having come a high priest of the good things that are come, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation, 12 nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling them that have been defiled, sanctify unto the cleanness of the flesh: 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish unto God, cleanse our conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of a new covenant, that a death having taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first covenant, they that have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must of necessity be the death of him that made it. 17 For a testament is of force where there hath been death: for it doth never avail while he that made it liveth. 18 Wherefore even the first covenant hath not been dedicated without blood. 19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses unto all the people according to the law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded to you-ward. 21 Moreover the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry he sprinkled in like manner with the blood. 22 And according to the law, I may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.

 
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Colter

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Then what your saying is, the Bible was not inspired by God, and that none of the Bible can be trusted because, Paul lied about so many things?
No, that's what you are saying.


Jesus preached the "good news" long before the cross became "the good news" of a new gospel about Jesus.


Luke 4:43 43But he said, "I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent."

Matthew 4:23 23Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

Mark 1:14 14After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God.
The Synagogue at Magdala on the shore of Galilee where Jesus preached the original "good news" gospel.
View media item 60408
 
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PeaceByJesus

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The Epistles are for people who already know the Gospel in established Christian communities, so if the Epistles are not the Gospel then what is the Gospel? Should Matthew, Mark, Luke and John be used exclusively to tell the Gospel to non-believers?

Perhaps you could say we have theological license to use what we want to or it could be said that doctrinally meaty messages are irresponsible for non-believers as they are not ready. This begs the question what is the purpose of the Gospel? Should it "fix" ones theology or should it be more focused on introducing someone to Jesus?

If you make the entire 4 gospels out to be the gospel message then you will have problems, such as btwn the synoptics (which do not even mention the new birth), but the Epistles explain the Gospel which Christ commanded to be preached and which we see concisely in Acts, which book you left out.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15-16)

And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. (Luke 24:46-49)

The basic gospel in essence, salvation by faith in the substantiated death, burial and resurrection of the prophesied Christ of Scripture.

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory [living faith] what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. (1 Corinthians 15:1-6)

By which souls are translated into the kingdom of God (which is spiritual, and while the literal physical establishment, spurned by the 1st c. Jews, awaits the Lord's return).

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. (John 18:36)

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: (Colossians 1:13)

"This gospel of the kingdom" was preached in Acts:

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. (Acts 8:12)

And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. (Acts 20:25)

Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him. (Acts 28:31)

Beginning at Jerusalem:

But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judæa, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: (Acts 2:14)

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. (Acts 2:22-24)

For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:34-36)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (Acts 2:38-39)

Likewise Paul primarily first to the Jews:

Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. (Acts 13:26)

Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead: And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. (Acts 13:26-33)

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. (Acts 13:38-39)

To the Gentiles:

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. (Acts 10:34-38)

And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. (Acts 10:39-41)

And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (Acts 10:42-44)

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (Acts 10:46-47)

Salvation by grace thru effectual heart-purifying justifying faith:

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? (Acts 15:7-10)

What the gospel accounts mean and fully entails (such as the "one new man") are provided in Acts and the epistles, being interpretive of the gospels, like as they and Acts and the epistles are interpretive of the OT.

Thus the most ancient and only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed is Scripture.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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The definition of the Gospel isn’t as easy as some think. For Jesus, the good news is that God has sent him to establish God’s Kingdom on earth, establishing the new covenant. For Paul, is that Christ died for our sins and was raised to bring us new life, in the form of the new covenant.

There are clear differences between the two definitions. I think the new covenant is what’s most common between Jesus’ and Paul’s definition, although the actual term occurs only a couple of times. In the Words of Institution for Jesus. In Paul also in 2 Cor 3:6. Nevertheless, Jesus’ whole approach to ethics was to reinterpret the Law in accordance with its intent, and Paul also talked about replacing the Law with behavior based on being in Christ. Both of these are reasonable interpretations of Jeremiah’s new law written in our hearts. Consistent with this, both Jesus and Paul talked about changing our hearts. That's what Jesus really meant by repenting. Jesus didn't use the term "repent" to refer to regret for specific sins, but to changing our whole orientation. That's what Paul talks about in Rom 6, and more generally in his references to being in Christ.

However there are other aspects that are less commonly talked about. See https://aeon.co/ideas/the-gospels-of-paul-dont-say-what-you-think-they-say for an interesting example of this. Both Jesus and Paul saw Jesus’ mission in the context of a cosmic battle. Both taught that Jesus’ real mission was to defeat the cosmic powers of evil. So the Gospel is also that Christ has defeated the powers of sin and death.
See above.
 
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Before the Fall
Adam was commissioned to subdue the earth, tame it like a wild horse is tamed, to be useful to the Master.

This could be done only with help from the Finger of God, the presence of Godś power, His Kingdom.

Since only the pure can see God, Adam was pure. It's not that he did not sin, did not covet, did not believe Godś word, but that where there is no law, there is no transgression. Without the knowledge of good and evil, Adam was immune from law.

After the Fall
Knowledge of good and evil removed immunity. Adam was culpable. Law had jurisdiction. Adam was guilty. He could no longer be in Godś presence. Union with God was lost. He could no longer subdue the earth, perfect, complete it. Worse, his actions defiled creation.

After the Cross
Being in Christ restored immunity.

Zechariah 3
9'For behold, the stone that I have set before Joshua; on one stone are seven eyes. Behold, I will engrave an inscription on it,' declares the LORD of hosts, 'and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

The land is the new humanity in Christ. Those who were aliens in the old humanity could now inhabit the new City:

Hebrews 11
16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

In Christ, Godś People could be in Godś presence, and could repair Creation, tikkun olam. Then subdue it.

That's why Gentiles who were without purpose now had hope, just as Israel had always had.

This then is the result of the Gospel.

Manifested in the Book of Acts, on the Day of Pentecost.
 
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PeaceByJesus said in post #110:

By which souls are translated into the kingdom of God (which is spiritual, and while the literal physical establishment, spurned by the 1st c. Jews, awaits the Lord's return).

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. (John 18:36)

Regarding the future, literal physical establishment of the Kingdom, Amillennialism claims that John 18:36 forbids any such thing.

But John 18:36 means that Jesus Christ's future, physical reign on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29) will not be of this world in the sense that it will not come by worldly means, such as by the Church fighting physically to establish it (2 Corinthians 10:3-4, Matthew 26:52, Matthew 5:39). Instead, it will come only by Jesus Christ Himself returning physically from heaven to establish it (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). Also, after the future Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), a New Earth, as in a new surface for the earth, will be created, and God's Kingdom will continue forever on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).
 
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justbyfaith

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As a second witness to what Chinchilla said on page 1, the gospel in a nutshell is in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4...

That Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

Also John 3:16, For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
 
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As a second witness to what Chinchilla said on page 1, the gospel in a nutshell is in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4...

That Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

Also John 3:16, For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.


You seem to be saying that the Gospel is the good news that we won't go to hell if we believe that Jesus cancelled our sins.

The actual good news is that Jesus created a perfect new man (AKA Rest, destination, goal, God and humanity in partnership) accessible by faith (loyalty, following without muttering, avoid disobeying) so that we could subdue creation, could become partakers of the second Adam.

Hebrews 12
2Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

15while it is said,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME.”

16For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 17And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? 18And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.


Faith is loyalty, not just intellectual agreement with the claims of Scripture. We believe that the fact Christ rose from the dead confirmed the creation of the new man, free from the sting of death. It encourages us to enter Rest, so that we also can share in what remains of the work of Christ.


If your understanding is that just agreeing that Christ was resurrected allows you into heaven, what happens if you are cast into the outer darkness if you are wrong? Luther thought that Paul taught Israel was cut off for depending on works, like Catholics, but Paul taught Israel was cut off because they thought they were the descendants of Abraham, through circumcision, when actually the descendants of Abraham were through obedience. Israel was chosen, saved by grace, not because she was the strongest of nations, to be God's people, His instrument to bless the world. She was replaced by the new man, ekklesia, those separated from, the world, not Jew, not Gentiles. Don't try to understand the text as teaching works do not save: it teaches works do not count in God's choice of who He would USE. This was because Gentiles were trying to throw out Jews from the church, and Jews were trying to keep the synagogues pure by only accepting Jews.

You are misunderstanding the context of the teachings.

You are in danger of missing the opportunity to be used by God.
 
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Chinchilla

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That's funny. Israel was supposed to be a blessing to the Gentiles. I wonder how Jonah was so dumb.

Jonah was not dumb , God choosen him to be preach to Israel enemies .
Jonah wanted Israel's enemies to be destroyed .
 
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