No DNA from Flores man...why?

[dad]

No connection from modern pygmies to ancient flores man exists apparently.

Could this be because ancient man did not have modern DNA because the nature was different then?

"
"But if you want to look for another species, like Floresiensis, we have nothing to compare, so we had to develop another method: We 'paint' chunks of the genome based on the source. We scan the genome and look for chunks that come from different species -- Neanderthal, Denisovans, or something unknown."

She used this technique with the genomes of 32 modern pygmies living in a village near the Liang Bua cave on Flores Island in Indonesia, where H. floresiensis fossils were discovered in 2004.

"They definitely have a lot of Neanderthal," said Tucci, who was the first author on a paper published Aug. 3 in the journal Sciencethat detailed their findings. "They have a little bit of Denisovan. We expected that, because we knew there was some migration that went from Oceania to Flores, so there was some shared ancestry of these populations."

But there were no chromosomal "chunks" of unknown origins.

"If there was any chance to know the hobbit genetically from the genomes of extant humans, this would have been it," said Richard "Ed" Green, an associate professor of biomolecular engineering at the University of California-Santa Cruz (UCSC) and a corresponding author on the paper. "But we don't see it. There is no indication of gene flow from the hobbit into people living today."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180802141558.htm

 

[Gene2memE]

It's almost as if Insular Dwarfism was an actual thing, and not something that's only been observed in dozen of extinct and extant species.

My favourite is the Channel Islands mammoth - a dwarf species of mammoth that ended up smaller than a draught horse and went extinct not more than 11,000 years ago.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

No connection from modern pygmies to ancient flores man exists apparently.

Could this be because ancient man did not have modern DNA because the nature was different then?

"
"But if you want to look for another species, like Floresiensis, we have nothing to compare, so we had to develop another method: We 'paint' chunks of the genome based on the source. We scan the genome and look for chunks that come from different species -- Neanderthal, Denisovans, or something unknown."

She used this technique with the genomes of 32 modern pygmies living in a village near the Liang Bua cave on Flores Island in Indonesia, where H. floresiensis fossils were discovered in 2004.

"They definitely have a lot of Neanderthal," said Tucci, who was the first author on a paper published Aug. 3 in the journal Sciencethat detailed their findings. "They have a little bit of Denisovan. We expected that, because we knew there was some migration that went from Oceania to Flores, so there was some shared ancestry of these populations."

But there were no chromosomal "chunks" of unknown origins.

"If there was any chance to know the hobbit genetically from the genomes of extant humans, this would have been it," said Richard "Ed" Green, an associate professor of biomolecular engineering at the University of California-Santa Cruz (UCSC) and a corresponding author on the paper. "But we don't see it. There is no indication of gene flow from the hobbit into people living today."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180802141558.htm

Nope.

 

[dad]

It's almost as if Insular Dwarfism was an actual thing, and not something that's only been observed in dozen of extinct and extant species.

My favourite is the Channel Islands mammoth - a dwarf species of mammoth that ended up smaller than a draught horse and went extinct not more than 11,000 years ago.

While Flores man may have lived on an island, one would think there would be some genetic link from modern pygmies tracing back. Why is there none?

One simple explanation would be that ancient man (in this case flores man?) did not have DNA at all as we know it today. If the nature was different, the forces and laws would result in life processes/DNA being different also.

 

[dad]

Nope.

Well articulated.....

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Well articulated.....

Thank you.

 

[Shemjaza]

While Flores man may have lived on an island, one would think there would be some genetic link from modern pygmies tracing back. Why is there none?

One simple explanation would be that ancient man (in this case flores man?) did not have DNA at all as we know it today. If the nature was different, the forces and laws would result in life processes/DNA being different also.

But Flores man does have DNA, they are just aren't ancestral to modern pygmys.

They live in the same part of the world and are both short... that's not really a reason to expect them to be related.

There were plenty of African, Eastern European and Italian living in ancient London... but aren't ancestral to the Saxon people who became the English.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

While Flores man may have lived on an island, one would think there would be some genetic link from modern pygmies tracing back. Why is there none?

One simple explanation would be that ancient man (in this case flores man?) did not have DNA at all as we know it today. If the nature was different, the forces and laws would result in life processes/DNA being different also.

Or another simple explanation would be that a simple feature like being short could arise more than once through normal evolutionary processes.

 

[SkyWriting]

It's almost as if Insular Dwarfism was an actual thing, and not something that's only been observed in dozen of extinct and extant species.

My favourite is the Channel Islands mammoth - a dwarf species of mammoth that ended up smaller than a draught horse and went extinct not more than 11,000 years ago.

They are fun to ride. Very docile.

 

[SkyWriting]

No connection from modern pygmies to ancient flores man exists apparently.

Could this be because ancient man did not have modern DNA because the nature was different then?

"
"But if you want to look for another species, like Floresiensis, we have nothing to compare, so we had to develop another method: We 'paint' chunks of the genome based on the source. We scan the genome and look for chunks that come from different species -- Neanderthal, Denisovans, or something unknown."

She used this technique with the genomes of 32 modern pygmies living in a village near the Liang Bua cave on Flores Island in Indonesia, where H. floresiensis fossils were discovered in 2004.

"They definitely have a lot of Neanderthal," said Tucci, who was the first author on a paper published Aug. 3 in the journal Sciencethat detailed their findings. "They have a little bit of Denisovan. We expected that, because we knew there was some migration that went from Oceania to Flores, so there was some shared ancestry of these populations."

But there were no chromosomal "chunks" of unknown origins.

"If there was any chance to know the hobbit genetically from the genomes of extant humans, this would have been it," said Richard "Ed" Green, an associate professor of biomolecular engineering at the University of California-Santa Cruz (UCSC) and a corresponding author on the paper. "But we don't see it. There is no indication of gene flow from the hobbit into people living today."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180802141558.htm

We don't know why some things are not.

 

[dad]

But Flores man does have DNA, they are just aren't ancestral to modern pygmys.

They live in the same part of the world and are both short... that's not really a reason to expect them to be related.

There were plenty of African, Eastern European and Italian living in ancient London... but aren't ancestral to the Saxon people who became the English.

Good points. If they have DNA I guess they are modern man.

 

[dad]

Or another simple explanation would be that a simple feature like being short could arise more than once through normal evolutionary processes.

I agree. There may have been adaptations even in the former nature that resulted in smaller size. Someone pointed out that Flores man also had DNA, therefore I suspect Flores man adapted in this nature.

 

[JackRT]

It's almost as if Insular Dwarfism was an actual thing, and not something that's only been observed in dozen of extinct and extant species.

My favourite is the Channel Islands mammoth - a dwarf species of mammoth that ended up smaller than a draught horse and went extinct not more than 11,000 years ago.

The last known mammoths to go extinct were on Wrangle Island in the Arctic Ocean north of Siberia. They were cut off from the mainland by rising sea levels some 10,000 years ago. At the time of their extinction about 5,000 years ago they were about the size of a modern rhinocerous.

 

[Petros2015]

One simple explanation would be that ancient man (in this case flores man?) did not have DNA at all as we know it today.

You have just won the Internet for today.

 

[Shemjaza]

Good points. If they have DNA I guess they are modern man.

They have DNA, but it's different to any living people. In fact it's more different to modern man then many samples of older fossils found in Africa and Europe.

(All life we know of has DNA, it's not just a human thing.)

 

[dad]

They have DNA, but it's different to any living people. In fact it's more different to modern man then many samples of older fossils found in Africa and Europe.

(All life we know of has DNA, it's not just a human thing.)

Just did a search and found this..

" So far, no DNA has been retrieved from the bones of a H. floresiensis individual..."

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/homo-floresiensis

So you need a source.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Just did a search and found this..

" So far, no DNA has been retrieved from the bones of a H. floresiensis individual..."

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/homo-floresiensis

So you need a source.

DNA doesn't last forever.

 

[dad]

DNA doesn't last forever.

No need to tell me, a poster was making the claim it existed.

 

[Shemjaza]

Just did a search and found this..

" So far, no DNA has been retrieved from the bones of a H. floresiensis individual..."

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/homo-floresiensis

So you need a source.

I wasn't aware that the tooth drill had failed to get viable DNA. However since DNA has successfully been extracted from considerably older Neanderthal samples, I think thew assumption that the DNA does not exist in this case is not warranted.

 

[dad]

I wasn't aware that the tooth drill had failed to get viable DNA. However since DNA has successfully been extracted from considerably older Neanderthal samples, I think thew assumption that the DNA does not exist in this case is not warranted.

Ha. No dna after all in hobbit man. Interesting. Another claim I see, that Neanderthal dna was considerably older.

A quick search found this

"The fossils of H. floresiensis date to between about 100,000 and 60,000 years ago, and stone tools made by this species date to between about 190,000 and 50,000 years old."
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/homo-floresiensis


"It stemmed from a Neanderthal female bone fragment found in a cave in the Altai mountains of Siberia from around 50,000–100,000 years ago"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_genome_project