I am a creationist, but...

[Steven Heiss]

there does not seem to be a consensus among creationists about many things. Yet, I read numerous arguments against creationism as if it were some unified doctrine.

What puzzles me the most is the constant ruckus over the age of the earth, as if this were the whole of the matter. If creationists do not all agree on the age of the Earth, how can science disproving one theory constitute refutation of creation?

Can anyone from either side of the debate tell me how much time passed between the passages: "In the beginning..." of Genesis 1:1 and "Now, the Earth had become..." of Genesis 1:2?

What we see there is the establishment of the setting. That setting is one of re-creation. Then the narrative goes on to briefly summarize a world before a catastrophe (the flood) and a new beginning. This pattern of renewal/rebirth is then repeated and re-experienced in different ways and on different levels, through bondage and redemption, exile and restoration, etc. all the way to the end when we learn of spiritual re-birth in Christ.

 

[SkyWriting]

there does not seem to be a consensus among creationists about many things. Yet, I read numerous arguments against creationism as if it were some unified doctrine.

What puzzles me the most is the constant ruckus over the age of the earth, as if this were the whole of the matter. If creationists do not all agree on the age of the Earth, how can science disproving one theory constitute refutation of creation?

Can anyone from either side of the debate tell me how much time passed between the passages: "In the beginning..." of Genesis 1:1 and "Now, the Earth had become..." of Genesis 1:2?

What we see there is the establishment of the setting. That setting is one of re-creation. Then the narrative goes on to briefly summarize a world before a catastrophe (the flood) and a new beginning. This pattern of renewal/rebirth is then repeated and re-experienced in different ways and on different levels, through bondage and redemption, exile and restoration, etc. all the way to the end when we learn of spiritual re-birth in Christ.

All past events are a matter of Faith. So I'm not going
to explain what I believe in and determine it to be your truth.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The evidence for "ruin/restoration" cycles over millions of years is stronger than that of a single creation event 6000 years ago. Several bible narratives strongly suggest a pre-Adamic world created for the enjoyment of the angels, that fell into ruin because of their rebellion.

 

[Ancient of Days]

By reading Gods word and ONLY Gods word, only one conclusion can be ascertained.

Creation week: One literal week.
Add up the genealogy's: So and so begat so and so and lived to XXX amount of years.
approximately 4400 years to Jesus's life on earth.
Christ's death until now: 2018 years. So from the Beginning until now, AS WRITTEN BY THE ONE WHO WAS THERE is about 6500 years. Now you only have two choices: You can believe him or you can doubt him.
That is the whole issue in a nutshell "DOUBT"

Lift up the curtain and look behind it you will find Satan hard at work trying to get Gods children to doubt him. That was his plan from the beginning.
" And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"

He sought to cause Adam and Eve to "doubt" God. And he has been doing this ever since.
The problem with adding millions of years (man made ideas) to the bible is that it creates doubt which leads to unbelief.

A modern parable:
A man says he believes the bible and teaches his children to believe in it as well. But that man tells his children that the creation week is not literal, it can mean millions of years. So those children unknowingly are sowing doubt against Gods word. When they come of age they say to themselves "Our dad didn't really believe that Genesis account of the creation week" So why should we?" That faulty logic is then applied to more books of the bible and they teach their children that the word of God is only partly true. In just a few generations of that family the grand children now no longer really need that book since their parents only really believed parts of it. Now they say unto themselves " What do we need that book for?" After all, only small parts of it are true anyways. "Yeah, we believe in Jesus but the rest of it can mean whatever we want it to mean" Now they have children, what do you think they will believe? We don't really need Jesus, we just need to be good people.

Fact or fiction? I have seen this happen first hand. Initial doubt can destroy a family's faith completely in just a few generations. Satan has been doing this for a long time. He is very good at what he does.

God said: " And the evening and the morning were THE first day."

" And the evening and the morning were THE second day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE third day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE fourth day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE fifth day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE sixth day."

Even a child reading that comes to only ONE conclusion. God made it simple man complicates things.

"Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?"

Which also means a little bit of DOUBT can destroy the whole of ones faith...

 

[LaSorcia]

Several bible narratives strongly suggest a pre-Adamic world created for the enjoyment of the angels, that fell into ruin because of their rebellion.

Which narratives?

 

[V37]

I suggest you get a copy of Kevin Logan's Responding To The Challenge Of Evolution, 2002, a very even handed treatment based on a wide reading of the questions.
For what it's worth I've shifted from old earth theistic macroevolutionism to young earth creationism to old earth intellegent design, taking Jerome's (and Calvin's) heads up that early Genesis uses a lot of poetry. I wish you well in your study.

 

[KWCrazy]

Exodus 20:11 was carved by the finger of God onto a stone tablet.
"11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."
This is the word of God. There is no greater truth.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Which narratives?

Job 38:6-7

6 "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Isaiah 14:
12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

Jude:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

 

[Ancient of Days]

I suggest you get a copy of Kevin Logan's Responding To The Challenge Of Evolution, 2002, a very even handed treatment based on a wide reading of the questions.
For what it's worth I've shifted from old earth theistic macroevolutionism to young earth creationism to old earth intellegent design, taking Jerome's (and Calvin's) heads up that early Genesis uses a lot of poetry. I wish you well in your study.

Or you could just read the word of God as written. It shouldn't surprise me that folks like yourself come to all the wrong conclusions based on all the outside influences you put in your brain.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

By reading Gods word and ONLY Gods word, only one conclusion can be ascertained.

Creation week: One literal week.
Add up the genealogy's: So and so begat so and so and lived to XXX amount of years.
approximately 4400 years to Jesus's life on earth.
Christ's death until now: 2018 years. So from the Beginning until now, AS WRITTEN BY THE ONE WHO WAS THERE is about 6500 years. Now you only have two choices: You can believe him or you can doubt him.
That is the whole issue in a nutshell "DOUBT"

Lift up the curtain and look behind it you will find Satan hard at work trying to get Gods children to doubt him. That was his plan from the beginning.
" And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"

He sought to cause Adam and Eve to "doubt" God. And he has been doing this ever since.
The problem with adding millions of years (man made ideas) to the bible is that it creates doubt which leads to unbelief.

A modern parable:
A man says he believes the bible and teaches his children to believe in it as well. But that man tells his children that the creation week is not literal, it can mean millions of years. So those children unknowingly are sowing doubt against Gods word. When they come of age they say to themselves "Our dad didn't really believe that Genesis account of the creation week" So why should we?" That faulty logic is then applied to more books of the bible and they teach their children that the word of God is only partly true. In just a few generations of that family the grand children now no longer really need that book since their parents only really believed parts of it. Now they say unto themselves " What do we need that book for?" After all, only small parts of it are true anyways. "Yeah, we believe in Jesus but the rest of it can mean whatever we want it to mean" Now they have children, what do you think they will believe? We don't really need Jesus, we just need to be good people.

Fact or fiction? I have seen this happen first hand. Initial doubt can destroy a family's faith completely in just a few generations. Satan has been doing this for a long time. He is very good at what he does.

God said: " And the evening and the morning were THE first day."

" And the evening and the morning were THE second day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE third day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE fourth day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE fifth day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE sixth day."

Even a child reading that comes to only ONE conclusion. God made it simple man complicates things.

"Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?"

Which also means a little bit of DOUBT can destroy the whole of ones faith...

What causes doubt is that the biblical account and the physical evidence don't agree. We need to revisit the 'translation' as the physical evidence won't change. So many dinosaurs living with early man yet no mention of them in any history and no physical evidence that we occupied the earth at the same time.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Or you could just read the word of God as written. It shouldn't surprise me that folks like yourself come to all the wrong conclusions based on all the outside influences you put in your brain.

So ignorance really IS bliss!?

 

[NBB]

But if the earth is not old, then God 'cheated' the formation of the universe to make it appear old,
For example: light of distant stars could not reach us if the earth was only 6000.

i don't think we will be judged because evidence appears to indicate an old earth and we believe that. But just wait until we are with him to really declare it a fact.

I don't agree at all with evolution though.

 

[Chinchilla]

there does not seem to be a consensus among creationists about many things. Yet, I read numerous arguments against creationism as if it were some unified doctrine.

What puzzles me the most is the constant ruckus over the age of the earth, as if this were the whole of the matter. If creationists do not all agree on the age of the Earth, how can science disproving one theory constitute refutation of creation?

Can anyone from either side of the debate tell me how much time passed between the passages: "In the beginning..." of Genesis 1:1 and "Now, the Earth had become..." of Genesis 1:2?

What we see there is the establishment of the setting. That setting is one of re-creation. Then the narrative goes on to briefly summarize a world before a catastrophe (the flood) and a new beginning. This pattern of renewal/rebirth is then repeated and re-experienced in different ways and on different levels, through bondage and redemption, exile and restoration, etc. all the way to the end when we learn of spiritual re-birth in Christ.

Devil walked in garden of eden sinless for some time untill iniquity become alive in his heart so any gap theory does not exist nor can it .

Ezekiel 28:13-14

 

[Steven Heiss]

Or you could just read the word of God as written. It shouldn't surprise me that folks like yourself come to all the wrong conclusions based on all the outside influences you put in your brain.

Indeed. People should be reading out of the scriptures only what they say, not into them what other people say it means.

The admonition and curse regarding adding to or taking away from the book is not directed only to scribes and bookmakers. One must not do this even by inference.

 

[Ancient of Days]

"OldWiseGuy, post: "What causes doubt is that the biblical account and the physical evidence don't agree. We need to revisit the 'translation' as the physical evidence won't change. So many dinosaurs living with early man yet no mention of them in any history and no physical evidence that we occupied the earth at the same time."

"What causes doubt is that the biblical account and the physical evidence don't agree."

What causes doubt is YOU CHOOSING to believe a very clearly worldly view over the words of the living God. Who was there. Sad. Very sad...

 

[Ancient of Days]

So ignorance really IS bliss!?

Its not ignorance. Its willingly choosing a worlds view of the words of the living God. Such choices have eternal consequences. Sorry, but if a person cannot get past a literal Genesis as written then the rest of his word is irrelevant. Yeah, God is THAT serious about his words. When he speaks, things come into existence. How many here can even begin to fathom that...

 

[Steve Petersen]

Its not ignorance. Its willingly choosing a worlds view of the words of the living God. Such choices have eternal consequences. Sorry, but if a person cannot get past a literal Genesis as written then the rest of his word is irrelevant. Yeah, God is THAT serious about his words. When he speaks, things come into existence. How many here can even begin to fathom that...

Prove any of this without using your Bible. Can't be done.

 

[Steven Heiss]

Its not ignorance. Its willingly choosing a worlds view of the words of the living God. Such choices have eternal consequences. Sorry, but if a person cannot get past a literal Genesis as written then the rest of his word is irrelevant. Yeah, God is THAT serious about his words. When he speaks, things come into existence. How many here can even begin to fathom that...

I can. He told the end from the beginning, and then sealed it until the end, so that there would be no self-fulfilling of these prophecies. He said which tribe would to what, and to whom, and when they would do it, over and over for centuries.

He showed me how to unseal His Word, and I can now see that they did what He said they would, why He said they would, and precisely when He said they would. Fathom that, if you can...

 

[Steven Heiss]

Prove any of this without using your Bible. Can't be done.

With it, I can convince anyone who has an open heart and an open mind. But they are rare and hard to find.

 

[brocke]

By reading Gods word and ONLY Gods word, only one conclusion can be ascertained.

Creation week: One literal week.
Add up the genealogy's: So and so begat so and so and lived to XXX amount of years.
approximately 4400 years to Jesus's life on earth.
Christ's death until now: 2018 years. So from the Beginning until now, AS WRITTEN BY THE ONE WHO WAS THERE is about 6500 years. Now you only have two choices: You can believe him or you can doubt him.
That is the whole issue in a nutshell "DOUBT"

Emphasis added.

One does not have only these two choices. There are more than accepting what you have presented for the Young Earth age to lead to believing God versus not accepting it and thus you must Doubt God.

There are huge problems with trying to determine the age of the earth from the genealogies. The biggest being that they are incomplete and at times different from each other. You have to resolve that issue first. Which genealogies to use and what about the gaps?

As for having to use only the literal interpretation of the creation story I refer to the comments of Dr. William Lane Craig.