the self replicating watch argument

[Astrophile]

No i don't believe any of the above, because there is absolutely ZERO!!!!!!! evidence to support any of those theories. Apes have always been apes, birds have always been birds. Nobody has ever found a single transitional species.

It's odd that you should say that, because my house is crowded with books that present the evidence for an ancient universe, for a rather less ancient Earth, and for biological evolution. As for apes always being apes, the fact is that we are apes, just as chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, orangutans and gibbons are apes. The genetic and fossil evidence shows that our last common ancestor with chimpanzees lived about 6-8 million years ago; it was probably something like Orrorin or Sahelanthropus.

Also, it is not true that apes have always been apes; the first apes evolved only about 25 million years ago.

Please show me one single fossil of a species transitioning form one kind to another. I beg you, I will become an instant evolutionist. Please have a look at this 4 minute video dealing with this issue.

I tried googling 'transitional species' and obtained 39,000 results. You may find it worth looking at 'Transitional Fossil Species - Darwinian', http://www.darwiniana.org/transitionals.htm , and http://www.transitionalfossils.com .

I did look at the video, and found that it consisted of a number of scientists beginning to answer the creationsts' questions and then being interrupted before they could give a full explanation. Also, it takes a great deal more than 4 minutes to understand the evidence for evolution and the age of the Earth; I have been learning about these matters for more than 60 years.

 

[Dan1988]

No I don't know what you mean. My experience is that creationists often have their own private definitions in these discussions that are non-standard compared to how things are defined scientifically.

So I ask again: what is a transitional fossil to you?



I have no idea what you are going on about. All I did was ask you for a definition of what you would consider a transitional fossil.

It's very clear and simple, it means exactly as it says. A transitional fossil is a fossil of an animal that is in transition from one species to another. Such as going form a bird to a pig, so you need to find one.

We have found millions of fossils and not a SINGLE!!!! transitional fossil. Surely you understand plain English

 

[Astrophile]

LOL!!! that was one of the species which became extinct in Noah's flood, you can even see by the way it's complete that it was drowned in mud and it didn't just die. If it did die on land it's bones would be scattered everywhere by the wind and the rain. So this proves it was quickly buried under mud and water.

So yeah, you can keep your false theory all to yourself

How do you know that it died in Noah's flood? I have seen a beach strewn with the skeletons of dozens of birds after an ordinary storm. I agree that these birds died quickly, but not as the result of a global catastrophe.

Also, if Archeopteryx became extinct as a result of Noah's flood, why are its fossils only found in Upper Jurassic rocks?

 

[Dan1988]

It's odd that you should say that, because my house is crowded with books that present the evidence for an ancient universe, for a rather less ancient Earth, and for biological evolution. As for apes always being apes, the fact is that we are apes, just as chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, orangutans and gibbons are apes. The genetic and fossil evidence shows that our last common ancestor with chimpanzees lived about 6-8 million years ago; it was probably something like Orrorin or Sahelanthropus.

Also, it is not true that apes have always been apes; the first apes evolved only about 25 million years ago.




I tried googling 'transitional species' and obtained 39,000 results. You may find it worth looking at 'Transitional Fossil Species - Darwinian', http://www.darwiniana.org/transitionals.htm , and http://www.transitionalfossils.com .

I did look at the video, and found that it consisted of a number of scientists beginning to answer the creationsts' questions and then being interrupted before they could give a full explanation. Also, it takes a great deal more than 4 minutes to understand the evidence for evolution and the age of the Earth; I have been learning about these matters for more than 60 years.

Whilst you may have theories, we have the truth. The truth is not a hypothesizes, it's a person named Jesus Christ.

You will never know the truth until you meet the truth. I saw those links you provided and it was just more of the same theoretical rhetoric, and not a single piece of evidence to support evolution in any way, except if you surrender your intellect on the alter of Pagan theories.

There is much more to that video link, I listed. You should watch the rest of the npresenation, it shows the greatest scientists conceding defeat.

 

[pitabread]

It's very clear and simple, it means exactly as it says. A transitional fossil is a fossil of an animal that is in transition from one species to another.

But how would you recognize such a fossil? I'm looking for something a bit more substantive here.

We have found millions of fossils and not a SINGLE!!!! transitional fossil. Surely you understand plain English

Of course there are transitional fossils, but again this is based on the way paleontologists define the term. That's why I'm trying to find out what definition you subscribe to since you appear unfamiliar with the scientific definition.

 

[Dan1988]

How do you know that it died in Noah's flood? I have seen a beach strewn with the skeletons of dozens of birds after an ordinary storm. I agree that these birds died quickly, but not as the result of a global catastrophe.

Also, if Archeopteryx became extinct as a result of Noah's flood, why are its fossils only found in Upper Jurassic rocks?

Your hypothesizes fails to take into account a couple of very important facts.

1. The layers of sediment which science relies on are the result of the creation of a mature earth. God created the earth with character and the appearance of age, just as He created Adam with character and age. You guys look at something and add your theory to it and run with your theory as if it were the Gospel truth. Have yo ever considered the possibility that God is right and you're wrong.

2. Those birds which were washed up on the beach you mentioned, are not the same deal as those who were quickly buried by a world wide catastrophic flood. Why, well it's simple. The birds washed up by the ocean would have their bones scattered all over the place, but those who were quickly buried remain intact. So we can observe them as a complete skeleton in the same position they drowned in Noah's flood

 

[Dan1988]

But how would you recognize such a fossil? I'm looking for something a bit more substantive here.



Of course there are transitional fossils, but again this is based on the way paleontologists define the term. That's why I'm trying to find out what definition you subscribe to since you appear unfamiliar with the scientific definition.

I know all about the scientific definition, which says "boys we have a theory, jump on board and give us you brains and we will fill it with ****** but we won't give you a single piece of evidence". Yes I know all about that, but I need to see at leas one piece of evidence before I surrender my God given mind over to some mad mans theory.

Christian scientists and all other Christians have been lined up and eagerly awaiting the day you Pagans present one SINGLE piece of evidence to support evolution. We have been waiting 6000 years and I dare say we will be waiting forever.

please go and learn what a "TRANSITIONAL SPECIES MEANS". I don't have the time to explain it in detail. I could write a PHD on the subject but I won't do it here.

 

[Dan1988]

But how would you recognize such a fossil? I'm looking for something a bit more substantive here.



Of course there are transitional fossils, but again this is based on the way paleontologists define the term. That's why I'm trying to find out what definition you subscribe to since you appear unfamiliar with the scientific definition.

Of' course there are no transitional fossils, you need to find one before I can believe they exist anywhere outside of your mind.

 

[Brightmoon]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Archaeopteryx_bavarica_Detail.jpg

I assume you are now an evolutionist.

. That archaeopteryx probably died on land and was washed into the water or mud. Birds mummify by having the neck muscles shrink and pull the head back . Also the gastralia look like they’ve been pushed out by the gut exploding . The tail also appears to be broken before burial in mud . This wasn’t killed in Noah’s Flood

 

[pitabread]

please go and learn what a "TRANSITIONAL SPECIES MEANS". I don't have the time to explain it in detail. I could write a PHD on the subject but I won't do it here.

Uh huh. Since you can't appear to provide a basic definition of the term in context of how they are identified, I'd say we're done here.

Of' course there are no transitional fossils, you need to find one before I can believe they exist anywhere outside of your mind.

You can believe whatever you want to believe.

 

[Brightmoon]

Of' course there are no transitional fossils, you need to find one before I can believe they exist anywhere outside of your mind.

your idea of transitional organisms ( a bird-o-pig or Cameron’s equally-as-silly crockaduck ) appears to be wildly different from what scientists actually find in nature . That why pita asked you for YOUR definition.

 

[doubtingmerle]

A transitional fossil is a fossil of an animal that is in transition from one species to another. Such as going form a bird to a pig, so you need to find one.

This what you are looking for?

 

[Brightmoon]

1 Small feathered dinosaur with solid bones and flight capable feathers but unable to fly
2 small feathered dinosaur with , flight feathers and able to fly ( archaeopteryx)
3 bird with bony beak and teeth
4 Bird with keratin tipped bony beak and teeth
5 bird with keratin beak and no teeth

Iirc this is how dinosaurs became birds

 

[doubtingmerle]

u
Christian scientists and all other Christians have been lined up and eagerly awaiting the day you Pagans present one SINGLE piece of evidence to support evolution. We have been waiting 6000 years and I dare say we will be waiting forevery.

here's one: https://www.christianforums.com/threads/nested-hierarchy-evidence-for-evolution.8050431/

 

[Dan1988]

1 Small feathered dinosaur with solid bones and flight capable feathers but unable to fly
2 small feathered dinosaur with , flight feathers and able to fly ( archaeopteryx)
3 bird with bony beak and teeth
4 Bird with keratin tipped bony beak and teeth
5 bird with keratin beak and no teeth

Iirc this is how dinosaurs became birds

That's the theory, but it is still hopelessly dead in the water while not a single fossil exists outside of the minds of those who have given themselves over to be deceived.

 

[Dan1988]

here's one: https://www.christianforums.com/threads/nested-hierarchy-evidence-for-evolution.8050431/

Us believers are evidence based, we do't blindly swallow what they spoon feed you guys. We only trust in tried and proven facts.

 

[doubtingmerle]

That's the theory, but it is still hopelessly dead in the water while not a single fossil exists outside of the minds of those who have given themselves over to be deceived.

What about all the transitional fossils from reptile to mammal? Why do we find a long string of animals incrementally more like mammals before the first mammal appears?

 

[Speedwell]

Us believers are evidence based, we do't blindly swallow what they spoon feed you guys. We only trust in tried and proven facts.

What, exactly, do you believe in that requires you to take that attitude?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Us believers are evidence based

Wait, what?

 

[Brightmoon]

That's the theory, but it is still hopelessly dead in the water while not a single fossil exists outside of the minds of those who have given themselves over to be deceived.

Says the guy who thinks pig-o-birds or bird-o-pigs are are even possible. Birds and pigs are both Reptilomorpha but they’re completely different branches of the Clade. Pigs , being mammals are from the synapsid Clade . Birds are from the diapsid Clade . What you want isn’t possible as these two lineages have been separated for hundreds of millions of years . They are related as all vertebrates are distant cousins.