the self replicating watch argument

[RealityCheck01]

if a designer cant make an ic system in small steps how a natural process can?

24 July 2018 xianghua: A lie that his incorrect "car to space shuttle" analogy is the making of an internal combustion system.
Internal combustion engines existed before cars so that would be "speciation" by design, not evolution.

 

[RealityCheck01]

I find it curious when disciples of Darwin ....

24 July 2018 WisdomSpy: A bit of "disciples of Darwin" idiocy when students follow scientific theories, not scientists.
Unsupported rumors about Darwin's thoughts does not make the massive evidence for modern evolution wrong.


21 July 2018 WisdomSpy: Links to a web site lying they have found "the lost city of Jericho".
20 July 2018 WisdomSpy: Jericho is archeological evidence against the Biblical account of Josiah.

20 July 2018 WisdomSpy: Ignorant nonsense about "evolution has no direction"

20 July 2018 WisdomSpy: A "virtually always downhill" fantasy about turning off genes, e.g. for vitamin C.

20 July 2018 WisdomSpy: A "evolutionary ORIGINS (of life and of functional genes) is a hoax" bit of paranoia.

19 July 2018 WisdomSpy: A "uphill genetic process" ignorant statement when evolution has no direction.

19 July 2018 WisdomSpy: A bit of ignorance about the definition of species.

19 July 2018 WisdomSpy: An ignorant "Natural selection reduces alleles and gene forms" statement.

19 July 2018 WisdomSpy: An ignorant "Genetic drift doesn’t build genes" statement

19 July 2018 WisdomSpy: Parrots a Behe lie that the AIDS virus, malaria parasite, Lenski’s E. coli, etc. invalidate evolution.

19 July 2018 WisdomSpy: Real ignorance that that dog breeding is evolution.

19 July 2018 WisdomSpy: An ignorant "Where did the wolf’s genes come from initially" question.

 

[RealityCheck01]

Have you read the book of Job?

24 July 2018 WisdomSpy: An irrelevant to this thread and my post question about the book of Job.

My post was that in order to have a belief that the Bible is literal, a person has to believe that God plants lies in the universe. The universe is full of lies. The Earth beneath our feet is full of lies. The lies about evolution are a part of those lies.

However the answer is I did many years ago and God making Job suffer is a very minor reason that I became an atheist. The saving grace is that this is more a poem than a factual account so Job may not have existed.

 

[RealityCheck01]

So, clearly, you are conflating ideas. I used the word FACTUAL. ...

Persisting with ignorance, WisdomSpy. This was Charles Darwin. This is On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection. Darwin's books on evolution are FACTUAL, they have facts in them and how evolution explains the facts. OOSMNS is specifically about origins.

24 July 2018 WisdomSpy: A "process of natural selection DECREASES genetic diversity over time" lie.
For example, natural selection (which includes mutations) produces new species over time which is an increase in genetic diversity.

24 July 2018 WisdomSpy: A lie that dogs which are breed, not evolved, are evidence against evolution.

24 July 2018 WisdomSpy: A fantasy that dogs which are breed are comparable to wolves.
Dogs are breed for purposes that shorten their life spans relative to wolves.
Why Do Dogs Have Such Short Lives?

24 July 2018 WisdomSpy: A fantasy that breeding dogs is consistent with ID creationism/pseudoscience which is not even science.

19 July 2018 WisdomSpy: Real ignorance that that dog breeding is evolution.

 

[xianghua]

Ah, so we can gain insights into natural processes by comparing it with human innovation. That sounds likely.

That in no way supports the claim that if cars cannot do something (e.g. evolve, have babies) that this proves animals cannot do these either.

if you say that its different you should prove it. so far we know that both are ic so the burdon of proof is not on my saide.

 

[VirOptimus]

if you say that its different you should prove it. so far we know that both are ic so the burdon of proof is not on my saide.

No, you make the claim. You support it.

But you wont as you cant as its a stupid analogy with no merit.

 

[doubtingmerle]

if you say that its different you should prove it.

I have already shown to you that animals can do some things that non-living machines cannot do. There was a time you even agreed with me on this.

Sigh. Do you or do you not think it is possible that animals can do some things that non-living machines cannot do?

 

[Dan1988]

many of you may heared about the watch argument by william paley (if a watch need a designer because it cant evolve naturally then also nature need one, because its more complex and have a design traits like a watch (the flagellum motor for instance is a real spinning motor found in bacteria-image below). the argument against it is that a regular watch can replicate itself with variations over time, and thus it cant evolve naturally when nature can evolve because it has those traits. but paley is also talking about a self replicating watch and claiming that even if we will find such a self replicating watch (or a robot) that made from organic components its still be an evidence for design and not a for a natural process (because as far as we know a watch with springs and a motion system and so on need a designer). thus, paley watch a rgument is still valid to this day. check also this argument:My favorite argument for the existence of God

Difference between Prokaryotic flagella and Eukaryotic flagella ~ Biology Exams 4 U

Thanks Xianghua,

This is a very interesting and informative link, I have saved it to share with my friends.

I would like to share a scientific presentation from a Christian point of view, regarding life on planet earth. I think you will find it useful and interesting if you are studying science or biology.

Please take the time to look at this pretty short video and share it with your friends.

 

[RealityCheck01]

if you say that its different you should prove it.

Read what you replied to. Your reply sounds like you want doubtingmerle to prove that cars cannot evolve or babies !

Cars are not biological. Cars do not evolve, they are designed. Cars do not have babies, they are manufactured.

Cars not evolving or having babies does not show that animals do not evolve or have babies.

 

[RealityCheck01]

Please take the time to look at this pretty short video and share it with your friends.

I suggest not sharing the video because it is from an ignorant point of view.
Start with the title: "Programming of Life". Life is not programed. Calling DNA a code does not make it into a programing language.

Trviallity of Earth being not "planet we know today" with slight changes in a list of parameters. Earth has always been changing so we can argue that Earth has never been the planet we know today! For example, there have been enormous changes in the levels of atmospheric oxygen, carbon dioxide and nitrogen in the past and now (global warming!).

"We’re living on the most unique and robust planet in the entire universe" ignorance. We know that exoplanets estimate. We estimate that there is at least 1 exoplanet per star. There are at least 100 billion stars in the Milky Way. There are at least 200 billion galaxies in the observable universe. The chances of a Earth duplicate are not zero.

The video itself starts with a mixture of describing physics, fantasy and at least 1 lie.
@ 2 minutes: A "science has no answers to these mysteries" lie. Science has an answer for origin of mass - the Higgs mechanism confirmed by observation of the Higgs boson. Science has an answer for where we cam from: Human evolution

@ 2:43: A nuclear force is a "brilliant program" fantasy when it is a force. This "programing" fantasy is repeated.

@ 4:26: Ignorance or deception that the existence and extent of a fine tuned universe is a debated topic.

@ 4:24: Relies on a calculation using the Big Bang (message flashes on screen) but I guess they do not believe in a Big Bang!

@ 4:26: A "extremely finely tuned" fantasy about the nuclear force. There is a disputed 2% stronger (IMO not an extreme change) diproton hypothesis.

@ 5:43: A rumor of a probability of having the "right" amount of nitrogen in the atmosphere being 1 in a 1000. An competent video would give a source. This deception by omitting sources is repeated for carbon dioxide.

Minutes of argument by incredibility - Wow, we are alive, live on a habitable planet and there are things like water that allow us to live !

 

[Dan1988]

I suggest not sharing the video because it is from an ignorant point of view.
Start with the title: "Programming of Life". Life is not programed. Calling DNA a code does not make it into a programing language.

Trviallity of Earth being not "planet we know today" with slight changes in a list of parameters. Earth has always been changing so we can argue that Earth has never been the planet we know today! For example, there have been enormous changes in the levels of atmospheric oxygen, carbon dioxide and nitrogen in the past and now (global warming!).

"We’re living on the most unique and robust planet in the entire universe" ignorance. We know that exoplanets estimate. We estimate that there is at least 1 exoplanet per star. There are at least 100 billion stars in the Milky Way. There are at least 200 billion galaxies in the observable universe. The chances of a Earth duplicate are not zero.

The video itself starts with a mixture of describing physics, fantasy and at least 1 lie.
@ 2 minutes: A "science has no answers to these mysteries" lie. Science has an answer for origin of mass - the Higgs mechanism confirmed by observation of the Higgs boson. Science has an answer for where we cam from: Human evolution

@ 2:43: A nuclear force is a "brilliant program" fantasy when it is a force. This "programing" fantasy is repeated.

Well that's your private view, but there are billions who disagree with you. I know there are billions of others who go along with your mob out of sheer ignorance, they just latch on because they follow the crowd like blind sheep.

Science has no answers to any of the most important questions, they are at a complete loss to answer the most basic kinds ABC type of questions. Like who am I, where did I come from, why am I here and where am I going.

Christian scientists have all the answers to every question a person could possibly have. We know how the earth and the universe was created and who created them, we know how humans came into existence, we know the beginning and the end of human history.

We know there's no life on any other planet in the universe and we have the answers to every other question which has baffled Pagan scientists from the beginning. we know all of these things because we know the One who created all of these things.

Pagan science teaches it's sheeple that everything came from nothing, through a big bang which was caused by nothing. Now any half intelligent person will quickly realize how ridiculous this whole idea is and they will quickly flush it down the toilet where it belongs.

 

[RealityCheck01]

Well that's your private view, ....

It is not a "private" view". It is a view that anyone who keeps up with science, can read Wikipedia or use Google can verify. The ignorance, deception and at least 1 lie in the video are obvious. Read what I wrote. The video lies.

1. Science has an answer for origin of mass - the Higgs mechanism confirmed by observation of the Higgs boson.
2. Science has an answer for where we came from: Human evolution

 

[Dan1988]

It is not a "private" view". It is a view that anyone who keeps up with science, can read Wikipedia or use Google can verify. The ignorance, deception and at least 1 lie in the video are obvious. Read what I wrote. The video lies.

1. Science has an answer for origin of mass - the Higgs mechanism confirmed by observation of the Higgs boson.
2. Science has an answer for where we came from: Human evolution

These are merely theories and as we know theories change every day, scientists throw out yesterdays truth and replace it with today's. Gods truth is the same yesterday, today and forever more.

I refuse to empty my self of all common sense and lend my mind to some crazy Pagan theory. Especially when we already posses the truth, so i can't make you believe the truth, because God has to give it to you as it's a gift and not something one acquires by observation.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Well that's your private view, but there are billions who disagree with you. I know there are billions of others who go along with your mob out of sheer ignorance, they just latch on because they follow the crowd like blind sheep.

Science has no answers to any of the most important questions, they are at a complete loss to answer the most basic kinds ABC type of questions. Like who am I, where did I come from, why am I here and where am I going.

Christian scientists have all the answers to every question a person could possibly have. We know how the earth and the universe was created and who created them, we know how humans came into existence, we know the beginning and the end of human history.

We know there's no life on any other planet in the universe and we have the answers to every other question which has baffled Pagan scientists from the beginning. we know all of these things because we know the One who created all of these things.

Pagan science teaches it's sheeple that everything came from nothing, through a big bang which was caused by nothing. Now any half intelligent person will quickly realize how ridiculous this whole idea is and they will quickly flush it down the toilet where it belongs.

Poe?

 

[VirOptimus]

These are merely theories and as we know theories change every day, scientists throw out yesterdays truth and replace it with today's. Gods truth is the same yesterday, today and forever more.

I refuse to empty my self of all common sense and lend my mind to some crazy Pagan theory. Especially when we already posses the truth, so i can't make you believe the truth, because God has to give it to you as it's a gift and not something one acquires by observation.

You should educate yourself to what a scientific theory entails.

 

[Dan1988]

You should educate yourself to what a scientific theory entails.

I know what it entails but i can't mention the word here

 

[Dan1988]

Poe?

Pigs will fly

 

[Jimmy D]

Well that's your private view, but there are billions who disagree with you. I know there are billions of others who go along with your mob out of sheer ignorance, they just latch on because they follow the crowd like blind sheep.

Argumentum ad populum.

Christian scientists have all the answers to every question a person could possibly have. We know how the earth and the universe was created and who created them, we know how humans came into existence, we know the beginning and the end of human history.

You know that there are many Christian scientists who accept evolution, the big bang etc right?

Science has no answers to any of the most important questions, they are at a complete loss to answer the most basic kinds ABC type of questions. Like who am I, where did I come from, why am I here and where am I going.

No, they're easy!

Who am I? Jimmy D

Where did I come from? Shrewsbury

Why am I here? Well, one night, my mum and dad...

Where am I going? To Beijing tomorrow morning for three weeks!

We know there's no life on any other planet in the universe

You know no such thing.

and we have the answers to every other question which has baffled Pagan scientists from the beginning. we know all of these things because we know the One who created all of these things.

It seems that you didn't know about the origin of mass (neither did I for that matter).

Pagan science teaches it's sheeple that everything came from nothing, through a big bang which was caused by nothing. Now any half intelligent person will quickly realize how ridiculous this whole idea is and they will quickly flush it down the toilet where it belongs.

Ah, right....





POE

 

[VirOptimus]

I know what it entails but i can't mention the word here

How mature.

 

[Larniavc]

if you say that its different you should prove it. so far we know that both are ic so the burdon of proof is not on my saide.

Do you still believe in magical car animals? I’ve not looked at this site for months and you still thinks magical car animals can reproduce?