The State of the Dead

[Sorn]

You could wake up as a chicken, but it would be you. Except with an overwhelming urge to scratch at the ground for food.

But if that is the case then does that not mean that the brain you are in significantly contributes to who you are. In effect it means that part, maybe a very large part, of your personality resides in and originates from the brain rather than your soul.

In trying to speculate on what the true mind / soul / spirit / physical brain connection might be it is important to always try and get your viewpoint to fit the real world in as much as we can observe it.

This is not easy and i'm not suggesting you need to do it now but for me I sometimes try and ask myself, well if my viewpoint is the correct one (or along the right lines) then how does it reconcile with how a drunk person is affected by alcohol, or someone taking drugs, not to mention those people who have brain injuries and damage.
That challenges a lot of viewpoints.

 

[Saint Steven]

But if that is the case then does that not mean that the brain you are in significantly contributes to who you are. In effect it means that part, maybe a very large part, of your personality resides in and originates from the brain rather than your soul.

In trying to speculate on what the true mind / soul / spirit / physical brain connection might be it is important to always try and get your viewpoint to fit the real world in as much as we can observe it.

This is not easy and i'm not suggesting you need to do it now but for me I sometimes try and ask myself, well if my viewpoint is the correct one (or along the right lines) then how does it reconcile with how a drunk person is affected by alcohol, or someone taking drugs, not to mention those people who have brain injuries and damage.
That challenges a lot of viewpoints.

I was joking about the "overwhelming urge to scratch at the ground for food."
More likely we would be looking around for our pants. (more humor)

Again, I view the brain as a medium on which data is stored. It may come with an operating system, and any of those elements can become damaged and not operate properly. And sometimes we think they are not operating properly when they are actually exhibiting extraordinary abilities. (autism)

 

[The Times]

Yes, I am fully aware that a brain transplant has not been done before, and that the mind/will/emotions/life experiences, etc. would probably not go with it. Lost in the process? Where would it go? Would it continue to exist in some form?

I will try to give you another long analogy. Say the brain is the hardware, just like a hard disk is a physical hardware. You can format it, store data on it, data that would account for a person's entire life experiences, resulting from decisions and consequences. Let's say it is a movie reel that accounts for every thought, emotion, life experience and a disclosure of the mind and will of that individual.

Let's say, the AI built into the hardware is the firmware operating system that drives the cognition, which exhibits the characteristic of that individual, and determines how that individual learns and interacts with themselves and others.

Let's say, the user account that has a security log on into the firmware is the soul identity which uses both the hardware (brain) and firmware (operating system), as a tool extension to the user to perform a function from an Ethernet or ethereal cyberspace point of origin.

The user doesn't exist in the hardware and doesn't exist in the operating system firmware.

The account user has authorisation to use the hardware and firmware, as a single user licence granted to him/her by the Creator at conception. So that the account in itself has no administrator rights or privileges to create another account, on another hardware platform, for all men are destined to die once and then judgment (Hebrews 9:27). The user can delete his/her account, if suicide path is taken and at this point, the user is permanently locked out from their account and is prevented from having any more privileges to use another piece of hardware platform, as they were married to the hardware platform at conception.

God as system administrator can remove user account privileges and can even lock or delete an account. I believe account deletion is the second death in the Lake of Fire, where the repository of locked out users in ethereal darkness is finally erased and the soul ceases to be. As scripture states.....

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

User account is not in the physical realm of the hardware (brain) or firmware (Operating System). The user is within the ethereal realm of God and is like an avitor with assigned privileges in using that account as a single user, married to the hardware and firmware at conception. In scripture it states.....

Revelation 20:4
I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God.

Revelation 6:9
I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Those who were beheaded under the altar of God. The altar of God is this soul repository of users who have within the ethereal (non material) God's cyberspace realm accomplished their stated functions and are awaiting to be reassigned to another interface as the same users, albeit in a completely different firmware (operating system) within the nexus of God. Notice I left out the hardware, because this maybe a cloud based reality without the need of a hardware avitor, like the human brain and its firmware cognition.

Aside from the above paragraph.......

Relocating/migrating a user account to another piece of hardware and firmware requires assignment of privillages for that interface. God gives it his HTTPS secure code privillage to access a specific hardware at conception and the assignment of user account privillages is accessible only to the system administrator who is God and he is the only one who can grant access to a piece of hardware.

As technology grows, humans cannot relocate their user accounts to another piece of hardware, because their user accounts are within the ethereal realm. As soon as an individual biologically dies, their user account is suspended (locked) and becomes inactive and cannot be used as an avitor for another's piece of hardware. This soul identity is the user account and it is not the hardware (brain), neither is it the firmware (O/S = brain cognition). As soon as an individual looses connection to their central nervous system, which includes brain and spinal cord, they are locked out of their account by the administrator and cannot log back onto their account, since that user account is married to the hardware at conception. Same principle is used with proprietary laptops that have single user licenses married to that particular hardware. Sure those laptops can be hacked to get permission of other users, but AI scientists who thing they can hack God's Creation Ethernet (ether) are obviously insane and they don't know that to do so, would mean to act as system administrators in place of God and this is not going to happen ever.

We are told that AI and cybernetic engineers are planning a cacophony of ideas that are going to deceive users within God's ether to join their bandwagon and in the process, their user accounts (soul ID access code) will be revoked by God and the result will be an extermination of the human race by an act of deception, thinking that they have migrated their themselves (user accounts) to another hardware platform, because the AI will exhibit the character of that individual but it is not that individual, but only a movie reel play of an individuals experiences without the individual present, if you get what I mean. The deception will have people jumping on the bandwagon and flatlining their brains to get that knew body, only to realise that this is no different to the act of suicide, because their user accounts will immediately get locked out.

The AI cybernetic avitors that will roam the plain of this earthly reality will not be users (souls) but just adaptable algorithmic patterns of what was once a living soul. Scripture does warn us about this deception befalling humanity as depicted in movies such as Blade Runner 2049.

Scripture states.....

Daniel 2:41-43
41The feet and toes you saw were a combination of iron and baked clay, showing that this kingdom will be divided. Like iron mixed with clay, it will have some of the strength of iron. 42But while some parts of it will be as strong as iron, other parts will be as weak as clay. 43This mixture of iron and clay also shows that these kingdoms will try to strengthen themselves by forming alliances with each other through intermarriage. But they will not hold together, just as iron and clay do not mix.

Obviously Daniel prophecies about the human race and the two kingdoms are symbolic of two worlds merging with one another, that is the clay which symbolises humanity, with AI cybernetics which is the iron. These two worlds will not marry together, because they are incompatible to be married and that God as the systems will not permit user accounts (soul ID) to be migrated to a different hardware/firmware platform, because the soul ID is not accessible to creation, but is God's very own ethereal repository.

God does warn humanity what will result from this misadventure.....

Matthew 24:21-22
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The Abomination of Desolation that sits in the Holy Place, is by removing the daily sacrifice and putting in its place something else. Since the Temple of God is the human vessel and we symbolise the Living Stones of the Temple or Holy Place, then if humanity tries to embrace something against God and that will certainly bring destruction, that would highly suggest that it is connected to the extinction of flesh, that is extinction of our species, being replaced by something else.

AI cybernetics will ultimately be the Abomination as many Hollywood movies depict a future reality for humanity. If people wanted to extend their lives, then they would be led astray into believing that merging with machine, that is biomechanically engineered, like the series West World will give them immortality, whilst forgetting that when they take that step, they are locking themselves (user account soul ID) from the earthly realm, by the inadvertent act of suicide without them knowing, as they are flat lined (locked out) and replaced by an algorithm of what emulates them, just like how animals are natural AI living organism without a user account (soul ID).

Scary place and a scary future indeed!

So yes, it was a hypothetical.
The point is that if we were able to do that, the identity of the person (soul) would be in the contents of the mind, not in the physical entity it now inhabits.

After what I have at length discussed above, the identity of the person (soul ID) is not the hardware (contents of the mind) and neither the firmware (cognitive characteristic of the mind).

The cognitive characteristic of the mind is an operating system that allows your user account access privileges. The contents of the mind can be emulated without ever being present the user and in this regard you are not the hardware (brain and spinal cord = central nervous system) and neither are you the firmware (cognitive characteristics of the mind and its stored content). You are an avitor existing within the ether of God as a single user licence, who has been married to the hardware and firmware at conception. Removing the contents of the mind and migrating them to another hardware platform will mean that your user account access will be revoked and you will not be the contents or the mind that drives let's say the AI cybernetic half clay and half iron creature.

Please read what I have carefully explained. As an engineer, I have also worked in the field of Artificial Intellegence, Mechatronics and Automation and Fuzzy Control software learning algorithms. The idea of migrating the contents of the mind is not different to teaching something how we are and how we behave and react, just like animals emulate humans as companions, but there is no one there. When you look at animals, no one is there, they are emulating you and you think they are the next best thing to a human companion. God certainly tested Adam and found that animals emulating Adam becomes a bore for Adam.

God is the first to create AI living organisms in the very creature, the living organisms. Even the simple cell is a living AI ORAGNISM. The layer of control is when humans who are created in the Image of God were given access as remote Ethernet users access to these AI forms.

In the resurrection the form we will have is not made known as the apostle John stated, but it will be a different user interface that God assigns different user privileges for that particular user within his ethereal nexus.

1 John 3:2
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

 

[Sorn]

I will try to give you another long analogy. Say the brain is the hardware, just like a hard disk is a physical hardware. You can format it, store data on it, data that would account for a person's entire life experiences, resulting from decisions and consequences. Let's say it is a movie reel that accounts for every thought, emotion, life experience and a disclosure of the mind and will of that individual.

Well, as always, the test for the views expressed in your post are 'how well they fit the observed behavior of people in real life, ie birth, infant hood, child hood, adult hood, brain damage etc (and animals for that matter)'.

And also what does it say about what we really are?. Also, when do you think God marries or allocates a 'user account' to a body and could it be detected because effectively before that it (the body) would be disposable.

I always think that extreme cases challenge best, for example a baby born as the result of a violent rape. This would be a perfect case for God to say I am not allocating a user account to that body, or to bodies of severely deformed babies (think thalidomide) etc. Why would God do that or does he not have a choice in some situations? I find these sorts of questions challenging to address but they are real life and ones theology ultimately must make sense of real life or its potentially just wishful thinking.

For what its worth I think animals are not just mindless AI machines but a lot more. I think they are conscious and to an extent self aware.

 

[The Times]

when do you think God marries or allocates a 'user account' to a body and could it be detected because effectively before that it (the body) would be disposable.

I believe that God assigns a 'user account' to a body at conception. There is a spark that initiates life and the soul is married at that instant.

This would be a perfect case for God to say I am not allocating a user account to that body, or to bodies of severely deformed babies (think thalidomide) etc. Why would God do that or does he not have a choice in some situations?

There are still borns, that is the body is functional, but no user there. The brain and body chemistry appear normal.

God has a choice, he is the Creator. Jesus explained why a man was born blind.

John 9:3
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

For what its worth I think animals are not just mindless AI machines but a lot more. I think they are conscious and to an extent self aware

Simple test to test between awareness and emulation.

For example being aware of a repetitive cycle with no purpose, now that should become boring after a while. The loss of initial excitement for instance is indicative of awareness of self reflection, that is why am I doing this for.

Why are most dogs so obsessed with endlessly playing fetch, never getting tired of the game?

You can throw a stick to a dog until the cows come home and you will see the same AI behavior and the same apparent excitement, where awareness of why the dog is doing what it is doing and why, with no change in mood, points to the absence of awareness. If the dog was aware, it would show a mood change and a none compliance behavior suggesting boredom of doing a repetitive task.

A emulation AI program will do tasks repetitively without getting bored, tired or changing behavior or mood.

Animals run adaptive emulation programs. An animal will not explain why its doing what its doing, it just does it like a sausage machine. There is no self awareness in animals. Whether it is a solitude Tiger or a pride of Lions, the AI program emulation will do what it knows, without concerning itself with the why.

 

[Sorn]

John 9:3
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

Jesus explanation pertained only to that man as he was healed by Jesus. We do not see the works of God (ie healing) in the large majority (I can't guarantee it never happens though so why not saying 100%) of people born with life impairing physical defects.

You can throw a stick to a dog until the cows come home and you will see the same AI behavior and the same apparent excitement, where awareness of why the dog is doing what he is doing and why, with no change in mood, points to the absence of awareness. If the dog was aware, he would show a mood change and a none compliance behavior suggesting boredom of doing a repetitive task.

A emulation AI program will do tasks repetitively without getting bored, tired or changing behavior or mood.

When i play with my cats by dangling some string before then etc they respond eagerly at first but do eventually lose interest, ergo behaving in a self aware manner, string is not endlessly fascinating to them.
I suspect that it is the same with dogs, just that people tire first before dogs but I'm sure some PHD student could do the experiment to earn their PHD and show that, in fact, dogs do eventually tire of it, except it may take 1hr and not 5 or 10 minutes.

 

[Sorn]

There are still borns, that is the body is functional, but no user there. The brain and body chemistry appear normal.

If what you say is true, then it may be possible (perhaps by behaviors in the womb, eg kicking etc or lack off) to detect this earlier, ie before actual birth.

 

[The Times]

Jesus explanation pertained only to that man as he was healed by Jesus. We do not see the works of God (ie healing) in the large majority (I can't guarantee it never happens though so why not saying 100%) of people born with life impairing physical defects.

You need to understand the statement in context of Semitic culture. This is not implying about the works of God being displayed through miracles.

John 9:3
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

It is stating that this man was born blind, as to imply that those around him who are whole, can glorify God that he made them whole, so they would stop whinging about life in general.

This man's blindness was the works of God put on display, so that other people can glorify God for making them whole. Please don't forget the Semitic context of culture is not the same as our western context of culture. Their upbringing and primary discourses presented scenario where people who are not whole are deliberately there, so that others can realise how blessed they are and to glorify God.

Now, the western mindset may see this in a different light, but they too will pray for the ones who are not whole and this act in itself is also glorifying God. It is a win win situation for God. Remember the soul is not the body. The soul that has been clothed with a body that is blind has been tasked differently by God, in doing his will.

When i play with my cats by dangling some string before then etc they respond eagerly at first but do eventually lose interest, ergo behaving in a self aware manner, string is not endlessly fascinating to them.

I would not equate this behaviour in cats as self aware. Cats predictively behave the way they do like an AI machine, by practising their hunting skills and their fascination of the dangling string is primarily based on being rewarded with food, for their effort is purely mechanical.

Do this for example. During feeding time, dangle the string and before the cat looses interest, give a tiny bit of cat food. Repeat this exercise endlessly and you will realise it is just the responses of an AI machine, having absolutely no awareness. Once the cat has had its fill, then the mechanised food interest is switched off and it goes about doing other mechanical activities, not associated with hunting.

Try this also. Feed the cat until it has its fill and some more, then try to capture interest by dangling a string. I would presume that there would be absolutely no interest in pursuing this playfulness, because the state of the AI machine is predictively not hunting for food at this point in time. You can repeat this across several days and you will get the exact response every time.

Animals are just an emulation AI state machines.

I suspect that it is the same with dogs, just that people tire first before dogs but I'm sure some PHD student could do the experiment to earn their PHD and show that, in fact, dogs do eventually tire of it, except it may take 1hr and not 5 or 10 minutes.

Dogs behave differently to cats because their AI functions are different and fetching a stick means completely different to them, than to a cat for example. The dog will do this until the owner looses interest, because the owner will become bored of the static behaviour in dogs. That is why some are cat owners, who dislike the predictive behaviour of dogs and do not understand that the cats behaviour is purely for hunting and since the cats emulates loosing interest and then having interest, it appeals to cat owners more than dog owners. Both dogs and cats have different AI emulation programs and their different states is not evidence for self awareness, on the contrary.

If what you say is true, then it may be possible (perhaps by behaviors in the womb, eg kicking etc or lack off) to detect this earlier, ie before actual birth.

How could detection be probable if the Fetus behaves normally, yet the body cannot be sustained 28 weeks into pregnancy. It would highly suggest that in the absence of medical evidence showing reasons as to why, the soul sustains the body and when the marriage of the soul and body is not present, then the body is programmed by God to discontinue, that is go into a shutdown cycle. The body in itself is not the person, but is merely a living avitor that is accessed by the user account (soul).

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

As you can discern by now, that Jesus revealed the truth concerning how killing the biomechanical body, does not kill the soul. At the same time, Jesus reveals that only the system administrator who is God can delete the user account (soul), which is the soul under God's altar. God has access to souls in his soul repository.

Think of the matrix movie, now think of those banks of bodies actually being souls in God's repository. Yet in this avitor body, we are in the matrix of creation, real as can be, but we are not the body.

 

[The Times]

Many who know not Jesus Christ, will realise after their avitor biologically dies, and the soul link is severed from it, that they are in fact within the ether of God, within his soul repository as his prisoners. Condemned prisoners on death row.

 

[Saint Steven]

Many who know not Jesus Christ, will realise after their avitor biologically dies, and the soul link is severed from it, that they are in fact within the ether of God, within his soul repository as his prisoners. Condemned prisoners on death row.

That's pretty dark. What is the Good News?

John 14:2-3
My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

 

[The Times]

That's pretty dark. What is the Good News?

People that are condemned by Jesus Christ have only themselves to blame. Many saints and prophets, inclusive of Jesus warned all of humanity.

Jesus said...

“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”

"Be faithful unto death, and I will give to you the crown of life."

"I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see."

We are not the body, we are not the brain, we are not our thoughts, we are not our cognition, we are not our experiences.

We are souls within the ether of God, who have been given access to these bio-mechanical bodies and our being is immaterial. That is why Jesus said....

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

 

[The Times]

My Father’s house has many rooms; i

Rooms I interpret as dimensional realities within the timeless nexus of God.

I am going there to prepare a place for you

That place is real and tangible to the form the soul is given for the multi dimensional realm of God.

if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

This is why Paul would say......

absent from the body is to be present with the Lord' (2 Cor. 5:8)

Jesus says be faithful even onto death and I will give you a Crown of Life. Paul states I am ready to depart, now there is in store for me my Crown of Righteousness, the righteous judge will give me at his Appearing.

John further elaborates on this as follows.....

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

It seems death of the Testator is the final signing out or logging out from this temporal realm, to be migrated to another realm of many rooms, with a superuser account status. For all men are destined to biologically die once and then judgement.

First Death is the veil that all must cross in order to receive their eternal inheritance.

The thief in the night is the phrase that signals time is up for that individual, their midnight calling has come, when they least expect it.

 

[Saint Steven]

People that are condemned by Jesus Christ have only themselves to blame. Many saints and prophets, inclusive of Jesus warned all of humanity.

Jesus said...

“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”

"Be faithful unto death, and I will give to you the crown of life."

"I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see."

We are not the body, we are not the brain, we are not our thoughts, we are not our cognition, we are not our experiences.

We are souls within the ether of God, who have been given access to these bio-mechanical bodies and our being is immaterial. That is why Jesus said....

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

That sounds more like the Bad News to me.

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

 

[Saint Steven]

Rooms I interpret as dimensional realities within the timeless nexus of God.

But Jesus said they knew the way to the place where he was going.
Are you claiming that the disciples knew how to navigate "dimensional realities" ????

John 14:2-4
My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

 

[The Times]

That sounds more like the Bad News to me.

Why?

 

[The Times]

But Jesus said they knew the way to the place where he was going.
Are you claiming that the disciples knew how to navigate "dimensional realities" ????

one word...."Calvary", their bearing up their crosses and dying for the Lord.

do you think that is bad news as well?

 

[The Times]

Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

Where was Jesus going?

To Calvary!

Did the disciples finally come to know where he was going to and where they too were going to?

 

[Hazelelponi]

The Bible describes heaven in Revelation. It describes people wearing white robes (can't do that without some type of body) People falling on their faces worshipping God, (can't do that without some type of body), People waving Olive Branches and praising God (so apparently vocal chords exist in heaven)

There is mention of Glorified bodies in heaven, so apparently they are perfected in some way.. I'm good with that.

Don't know why it's a question honest.

 

[Saint Steven]

People that are condemned by Jesus Christ have only themselves to blame. Many saints and prophets, inclusive of Jesus warned all of humanity. …

Is it Jesus that condemns them? Or the law?

John 3:17-18
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Corinthians 3:6-7
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, ​

 

[Saint Steven]

Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

Where was Jesus going?

To Calvary!

Did the disciples finally come to know where he was going to and where they too were going to?

That's NOT what this means in context.

John 14:2-5
My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”