How do I ACTUALLY be saved?

[Shempster]

We obey the commands of Jesus because He has saved us and we love Him for it; not in order to be saved.

Are you certain about that?
Look up a list of Jesus commands, that is the ones he himself spoke. Then look at the context in each passage. To me it is clear that he seems to make them mandatory.

 

[justbyfaith]

Are you certain about that?
Look up a list of Jesus commands, that is the ones he himself spoke. Then look at the context in each passage. To me it is clear that he seems to make them mandatory.

I'm not sure what scriptures you are talking about. Give me chapter and verse and I will check them out.

 

[ubicaritas]

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 8:38-39

One of my favorite verses right now for all sorts of things. You are a Lutheran, so believe God's promises. God doesn't lie. Put your salvation entirely in God's hands and trust that Christ's work is sufficient for you. The gift God gave you in baptism is always yours

 

[ladodgers6]

Are you certain about that?
Look up a list of Jesus commands, that is the ones he himself spoke. Then look at the context in each passage. To me it is clear that he seems to make them mandatory.

He makes them mandatory for what reason?

 

[Shempster]

He makes them mandatory for what reason?

Because they reflect his character and nature which happens to be the exact reflection of God the father.
And we are to also be like him. It's not that he just has a list of stuff he hates and expects us to follow a rigid religion, but rather that we can experience abundant life led by his truth and his light.

 

[Shempster]

I'm not sure what scriptures you are talking about. Give me chapter and verse and I will check them out.

https://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/commands-of-jesus.html

 

[ladodgers6]

Because they reflect his character and nature which happens to be the exact reflection of God the father.
And we are to also be like him. It's not that he just has a list of stuff he hates and expects us to follow a rigid religion, but rather that we can experience abundant life led by his truth and his light.

But you said mandatory. Mandatory for what reason? Justification?

 

[Shempster]

But you said mandatory. Mandatory for what reason? Justification?

To enter the Kingdom of God, I suppose.

 

[justbyfaith]

https://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/commands-of-jesus.html

Can you explain how any of those scriptures teach that we must obey their commandments in order to be saved; and deny that we would keep them as the result of being saved?

 

[justbyfaith]

To enter the Kingdom of God, I suppose.

There are two different ways prescribed in the word of God for us to be able to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1) through believing in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 3:16).

2) through keeping the law.

In 2), the stipulations are such that no one can enter in that way. God requires perfection in your life from conception into eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48). The problem with this is that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

In 1), it is by simply believing that you are a sinner in need of God's mercy through the Cross; placing your trust in his act of propitiation for your sins. God is both just and merciful; but He cannot be both merciful and just in His dealings with us, because justice requires that we get the due penalty for our ungodly behaviour; while mercy desires that we get less than what we deserve. So God executed justice, so that He could exhibit mercy, by coming to earth and taking the due penalty for our sins upon Himself, so that He could exhibit mercy to us and still continue to be just in that our sin is punished in Jesus on the Cross. He even forgives us through the shed blood of Jesus on the Cross. Now we do not have to live a perfect life in order to be saved; because His perfect life is applied to our account, in that He lived a perfect life and then died to take the penalty for our sin. Justice and mercy meet at the Cross.

My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. I dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus' name. On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand, all other ground is sinking sand. --an old and precious hymn.

 

[Shempster]

Can you explain how any of those scriptures teach that we must obey their commandments in order to be saved; and deny that we would keep them as the result of being saved?

Well that could be a huge undertaking and I don't have time, but here are a few:
(keep in mind, I am not referring to Torah here)


* In Matthew 19:16, Jesus was asked what must be done to inherit eternal life. His answer: “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments”

* Luke 6:46 Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?

* The apostle John said: “Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked” (1 John 2:3-6).

* Paul said, “The law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good” (Romans 7:12) and, “I delight in the law of God” (Romans 7:22). Indeed, he said that “keeping the commandments of God is what matters” (1 Corinthians 7:19).

So yes, it could be true that simply attempting to obey the commandments will not SAVE anyone if the motive comes from a bad heart, but we are expected to keep them in the sense that obedience comes from a clean heart.
Does that make sense?

BTW, THANK YOU for your calm and sensible demeanor in chatting here. Far too often, I avoid the back and forth discussions because they turn to flaming and name calling.

 

[ladodgers6]

Well that could be a huge undertaking and I don't have time, but here are a few:
(keep in mind, I am not referring to Torah here)


* In Matthew 19:16, Jesus was asked what must be done to inherit eternal life. His answer: “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments”

* Luke 6:46 Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?

* The apostle John said: “Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked” (1 John 2:3-6).

* Paul said, “The law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good” (Romans 7:12) and, “I delight in the law of God” (Romans 7:22). Indeed, he said that “keeping the commandments of God is what matters” (1 Corinthians 7:19).

So yes, it could be true that simply attempting to obey the commandments will not SAVE anyone if the motive comes from a bad heart, but we are expected to keep them in the sense that obedience comes from a clean heart.
Does that make sense?

BTW, THANK YOU for your calm and sensible demeanor in chatting here. Far too often, I avoid the back and forth discussions because they turn to flaming and name calling.

I also want to thank you for being very respectful in this discussion. I agree with you about people who just are very mean, when talking about God's word. May I ask you what religion do you believe in?

 

[justbyfaith]

Well that could be a huge undertaking and I don't have time, but here are a few:
(keep in mind, I am not referring to Torah here)


* In Matthew 19:16, Jesus was asked what must be done to inherit eternal life. His answer: “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments”

* Luke 6:46 Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?

* The apostle John said: “Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked” (1 John 2:3-6).

* Paul said, “The law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good” (Romans 7:12) and, “I delight in the law of God” (Romans 7:22). Indeed, he said that “keeping the commandments of God is what matters” (1 Corinthians 7:19).

So yes, it could be true that simply attempting to obey the commandments will not SAVE anyone if the motive comes from a bad heart, but we are expected to keep them in the sense that obedience comes from a clean heart.
Does that make sense?

BTW, THANK YOU for your calm and sensible demeanor in chatting here. Far too often, I avoid the back and forth discussions because they turn to flaming and name calling.

1 John 2:3-6 and Luke 6:46 can both mean that we keep His commandments as the result of believing in Jesus; and that we are saved, not by the keeping of God's commandments (Ephesians 2:9 and context); but rather we are saved through faith in the finished work of the Cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Because of God's grace I labour more abundantly than they all (1 Corinthians 15:10); but it is not the labouring that saves me (while it may save others, which is the goal), but the grace of God in my life (unmerited favour towards an undeserving sinner) that saves. Make sense?

PS You are welcome. I make it my aim to try and bear good fruit in my dealings with other people, and not to bear briers or thorns. I have grown in my ability to keep calm in my postings over a period of time; and it is not because of anything I have done, but it is Christ in me who has done this work.

 

[Shempster]

I also want to thank you for very respectful in this discussion. I agree with you about people who just are very mean, when talking about God's word. May I ask you what religion do you believe in?

I follow Jesus. I have observed and studied many religions including numerous protestant variants.
I will say I attended several for many years and I have learned a lot for doing so. But I always got into trouble in small group discussions for asking questions. The bible reads differently to me...I can't help it.

 

[ladodgers6]

I follow Jesus. I have observed and studied many religions including numerous protestant variants.
I will say I attended several for many years and I have learned a lot for doing so. But I always got into trouble in small group discussions for asking questions. The bible reads differently to me...I can't help it.

Thanks for sharing. So you are a lone wolf or do you go to a specific church?

 

[Shempster]

Thanks for sharing. So you are a lone wolf or do you go to a specific church?

Haha. I love that question. I am a lone wolf, but not because I want to be. I just never fit in because I could not avoid asking questions. I grew up a Catholic and I used to question stuff all the time, even as early as 6th grade. I just say I am inquisitive. Actually I do go to a very conservative church a couple times a month. It's ok.
I get along with church folks but I feel like whenever I get into a group setting, people will ask me questions to see if I am fitting into "the truth" as they call it. Of course, they don't realize that I know and also get that from people of other denominations which can make for a real mess.
I feel like I am on a witch trial or something. It's not just religious stuff, it is also politics. I am expected to fit into every nuance of the Conservative Republican Christian image and I can't do that.
I don't follow politics and frankly areas of my lifestyle appear to be very liberal (Like I am a vegetarian) and all I get is squawks about it. Not sure why. I don't ask others what they eat. That's weird.

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[justbyfaith]

Mark 7:1-2, The came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem. And when they saw some of his disciples eat with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

Kind of like that?

At Calvary Chapel we try to keep the main thing the main thing. It is all about Jesus.

And while I believe that concerning doctrine, we ought to try to get it right in even the minor issues (Luke 16:10), if someone has it wrong in a minor issue, we don't divide over it, but understand that the person who disagrees is still our brother in Christ because he has it right in the essentials

 

[Hethatreadethit]

Hello,

I don't feel very motivated in life because I just don't know what could happen in the future. Right now, I do believe and love God, but because of my great sin, I feel that in the future I might fall away from God. I'd just like to know what any of you people have to say about the questions below. If any of you could answer these for me, I'd really appreciate it. Thank you!

1. God says in Ephesians 2:8-9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. God is saying that it is not our doing that earns us salvation, but only Jesus' doing. But God says several times in the Bible that I must believe in the Lord, Jesus to be saved. Isn't believing in Jesus my doing? And I'm a sinner, so I don't trust my own doing. What if, because I'm a sinner, I don't believe in Jesus in the future?

2. Based on question 1 above, is there anything in the Bible that could give me confidence that I won't lose salvation in the future?

3. What do you all think about "once saved, always saved"? If I am saved now, will I always be saved? Can my salvation be taken away from me? Below are two links regarding this topic, one from gotquestions.org and wels.net . gotquestions.org (a very popular online Christian FAQ) says that once you are saved, you are always saved. The link provides a lot of Bible references too. But wels.net , also providing a lot of Bible references, says that a Christian can fall from the faith. The links are right below:

https://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html

https://wels.net/faq/position-on-once-saved-always-saved/

Could you give a biblical answer on which of the links, if any of them, is correct?

------

To be honest, I'm kind of in panic mode. I don't want to do good works my entire life just to be confident that God would be pleased with me. I know God loves me. But with the unanswered questions above, I don't know if I will love God in the future. I ask that you take the time to answer these questions when you get the chance. Thank you again!

Alice: "I just wanted to ask which way I ought to go."

Cheshire Cat: "Well that depends on where you want to get to."

Alice: "Oh, it really doesn't matter as long as I-"

Cheshire Cat: "Then it really doesn't matter which way you go."

If God is calling you to Christ? Has he caused you to hear His Word? If not, then you will take advice from the multitude of deceivers just waiting to mislead you into their web of deceit.

Do this:
Pray to God for crucifying His Son through your sins, and ask for His guidance in your death (because of sin), for the wages of sin are death, ask for understanding, be patient, and stay clear of those who say their Christians. Christ has already appeared to redeem sinners, and He shall return to destroy sin, the enemies of righteousness. Pray for the restoration of God's people. Those who say that Christ died in their stead are the anti-Christ. All Christians must overcome sin, but deceivers have destroyed the true gospel. Questions? Please ask.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

While any of us could answer so briefly, we really should want to gain, or be encouraged, from our brothers. Here are some beautiful answers I just saw --

Charles Spurgeon writes:
Repentance is a discovery of the evil of sin, a mourning that we have committed it, a resolution to forsake it. It is, in fact, a change of mind of a very deep and practical character, which makes the man love what once he hated, and hate what once he loved.

J. I. Packer writes:
Repentance means turning from as much as you know of your sin to give as much as you know of yourself to as much as you know of your God, and as our knowledge grows at these three points so our practice of repentance has to be enlarged.

John Piper writes:
Repenting means experiencing a change of mind that now sees God as true and beautiful and worthy of all our praise and all our obedience.
-
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-is-repentance

Here's an article on Billy Graham's site:
"Repentance is a biblical word. The Old Testament thunders, “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin” (Ezekiel 18:30, NKJV). The New Testament also vigorously exhorts men and women to repent. “Unless you repent you will all likewise perish,” said Jesus (Luke 13:3, NKJV). “Repent … and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,” said the Apostle Peter (Acts 3:19, NKJV). The Apostle Paul said, “Now [God] commands all men everywhere to repent” (Acts 17:30, NKJV).

The Bible commands it, our wickedness demands it, justice requires it, Christ preached it and God expects it. The divine, unalterable edict is still valid: “God commands all men everywhere to repent.”
...(continues, very usefully)
https://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/january-2007/true-repentance-real-change/

And what leads you to repentance? Understanding that you crucified Christ through your sins.
Also know that corruption cannot inherit incorruption. You must overcome if you have the faith and power to do so. Who really believes that Christ was resurrected from the dead? Those who know God. Where is this knowledge, that one may see, know, and believe. It is written according to the law and the prophets. But where?

 

[justbyfaith]

Alice: "I just wanted to ask which way I ought to go."

Cheshire Cat: "Well that depends on where you want to get to."

Alice: "Oh, it really doesn't matter as long as I-"

Cheshire Cat: "Then it really doesn't matter which way you go."

If God is calling you to Christ? Has he caused you to hear His Word? If not, then you will take advice from the multitude of deceivers just waiting to mislead you into their web of deceit.

Do this:
Pray to God for crucifying His Son through your sins, and ask for His guidance in your death (because of sin), for the wages of sin are death, ask for understanding, be patient, and stay clear of those who say their Christians. Christ has already appeared to redeem sinners, and He shall return to destroy sin, the enemies of righteousness. Pray for the restoration of God's people. Those who say that Christ died in their stead are the anti-Christ. All Christians must overcome sin, but deceivers have destroyed the true gospel. Questions? Please ask.

Then apostles Paul and Peter were the anti-Christ. For they wrote Romans 3:21-26, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 3:18.