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Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

DeaconDean

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well I just gave you scripture that says exactly what I have been saying.

No you haven't. All you have done is to take a few pieces of scripture "out of context", and built a whole doctrine surrounding it.

But lets not mince words.

Here are the fruits of what you say.

Because you use scripture which says: "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (cf. Phil. 2:10-11) will result in "universal salvation" for all who do this.

If that is the case, why preach? Why tell people they need to repent?

After all, using Pharoah as an example, if you previously make a confession, you'll be saved eventually.

If Annihilationism is fact, then why be saved to begin with? After all, if in 1 year or 1,000,000 years, when my sin debt is paid, I burn up into nothing and disappear, I have escaped the "Lake of Fire".

So the best thing about "universal salvation based upon Phil. 2:10-11 is that we don't need to repent. We don't need to be led by the Spirit. On that day when Jesus returns and the whole world says what is promised in Phil. 2:10-11, everybody will be saved.

So lets abandon Christianity entirely. Lets live any way we want. After all, we have the promise of salvation via Phil. 2:10-11.

Yea...right.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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Der Alte

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Well I was going to leave you to OMT, but as you addressed me I will reply.
Why is it that Paul has to be the one who does not know what he is talking about? I would think it was you who does not know what Paul is taking about.
You are presenting yourself as more knowledgeable than I am and accusing me of being wrong but you do not explain how I am wrong. I call this the "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" argument. Since according to you 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5 and 1 Corinthians 15:50 don't mean what they actually, literally say please tell me what Paul was talking about? If you can't or won't do that we have nothing further to talk about.
Anyway you cannot use those other scriptures to say Paul was mistaken to say we are commanded to teach Jesus Christ is the saviour of all men, yet that is exactly what you are doing. You do not explain 1 Timothy 4:10 all you do is say it cannot mean what it says because of other verses. You seem to have the understanding the the gospel must conform to your doctrine instead of your doctrine conforming to the gospel. Which again as Paul tells us is.For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
More of the same pointless argumentation and false accusations.
We are not to promote any other gospel then that which we have received, yet many of you keep doing exactly that.
You falsely accuse me of promoting another gospel, all I did was quote 4 passages of scripture. Please explain to me how 1 Tim 4;10 means exactly what it says but 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:5 and 1 Cor 15:50 do not mean what they literally, actually say?
And we do not believe the unrighteous will enter into the kingdom in their unrighteous state, but that they shall be changed and enter into the gates of the city when they learn the commandments of God and partake of the water of life freely.
Please show me any scripture which clearly, unequivocally states that the unrighteous will be given a second chance after death and "shall be changed, enter into the gates of the city, learn the commandments of God and partake of the water of life?" I have read and taught through the Bible many times and I can't find that verse
For God himself states that every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Four times in scripture it is written of Jesus "sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool?" Does that happen before or after God saves all of the unrighteous dead? There will be some that proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord out of love and there will be some that say "Jesus Christ is Lord" because they are a defeated enemy and Jesus will say "Depart from me you who work iniquity. I never knew you." I guess "never" doesn't really mean "never." I suppose that someday in the sweet by and by Jesus will say "Now I know you?"
So you asked earlier of OMT why is your understanding wrong and His correct?
Answer: because you do not promote what we are commanded to teach, you oppose it.
Another empty accusation. "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" You have yet to explain how I am not promoting what we are commanded to to teach or how I am supposedly opposing it.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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And here is that punishment:
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (15) And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
New King James Version
Since the first death was not annihilation there’s no reason to assume the second is.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Obviously you haven't read what God did to Dathan, Abirim, and Korah.
Onviously you’ve never read the passage. He didn’t plan this before they were born.
God Bless

Till all are one.
I think your postscript very hypocritical. Insult people and then wish them blessings and a hope for oneness.
 
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DeaconDean

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Onviously you’ve never read the passage. He didn’t plan this before they were born.

Never said He did either.

I posted that because of your remark about "the One True Real God is not cruel at all".

I think your postscript very hypocritical. Insult people and then wish them blessings and a hope for oneness.

Now that's funny.

You accuse me of something, when your whole attitude in this thread is exactly the same.

Haha, that's funny.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Maybe from your perspective.
No it’s simply the truth.
But, the doctrine of "election", God's divine choice on whom will be His people, can be shown as truth, from the time of the Torah.
Na. Only fancy twisting and deleting.
Just because you disagree with it, does not make it true.
Just cause you love it doesn’t make it true.

Here, you are mistaken. Theology is not the only thing separating the Saints.
Never said it was. Where’d you get that? You change my words too
Ha! I may disagree with the views espoused by the person who sits "High" within the Vatican, but I still to some measure, owe a measure of respect. (Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. -Rom. 13:7)
Jesus called the religious leaders snakes. Guess he didn’t agree with your position. Don’t see that God feels that way either.

fairness, there is no way I would bow my knee to him, on the other hand, there is no way I would completely disrespect the man neither. So while it is your right to hate the man, fact is, without him and another man (Martin Luther) you very well could be a Catholic today, heeding to their "theology".
You deeply underestimate God. And Luther I respect. He was never in political power nor a tyrant.
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]! That is so funny. You say that all the while hating anything that relates in any fashion to Calvin.
Untrue again. Very hypocritical to “curse” me and complaint I hate which I don’t. You only say that cause you cannot imagine what it is like to love truth. You likely think that everyone loves their own favorite theology ( that kind ALWAYS comforts the flesh) and so think if someone thinks differently, we’ll must be engaging in hating others. That some love truth and are prepared to be courageous doesn’t occur to them.

Zeal for the house of God did not end with Jesus.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Never said He did either.

I posted that because of your remark about "the One True Real God is not cruel at all".
So you admit you’re perfectly willing to have God be called cruel. That’s a fruit of Calvinism. God being cruel is no problem.

This is why God does not reveal much of Himself or man to Calvinists. One can listen to their “great” teachers and if one counts how many times they DONT know answers it is astounding. I’ve come to realize He hides from them. I can see why. They’re happy if they are assured of heaven even if their thinking insults him.
Now that's funny.

You accuse me of something, when your whole attitude in this thread is exactly the same.

Haha, that's funny.
Mocking while attacking my character is not respecting others. Secondly, it is, as I said, a mark of the intolerance typical of the theology.
God Bless
He does and mostly with information and understanding of Himself. When it comes to God Himself, I cannot think of a question I have He has not answered. There is no “I don’t understand His ways” in my thinking. I know them quite well. But I do not accept Him being cruel as Calvinism forces all
it’s adherents to do.
 
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DeaconDean

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No it’s simply the truth. Na. Only fancy twisting and deleting.
Just cause you love it doesn’t make it true.

Never said it was. Where’d you get that? You change my words too

I bet you don't even know what Calvinism teaches.

Bottom line, in this thread, everybody is wrong except you.

You and you alone are the sole repository for the truth.

And it still does not change the fact that Calvin was not the "tyrant" you try to believe he is.

History does not agree with your line of thought. You want to make Calvin a villain based on his theology. What were your exact words? "The theology of Calvinism".

Your funny.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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So you admit you’re perfectly willing to have God be called cruel. That’s a fruit of Calvinism. God being cruel is no problem.

So you deny scripture? (cf Rom. 9:22)

This is why God does not reveal much of Himself or man to Calvinists.

So you accuse us (Calvinists) of worshipping the man John Calvin?

One can listen to their “great” teachers and if one counts how many times they DONT know answers it is astounding.

And who taught you?

I’ve come to realize He hides from them. I can see why. They’re happy if they are assured of heaven even if their thinking insults him.

Your so funny. Show me where Calvinism teaches that please.

Mocking while attacking my character is not respecting others.

Post here where I did that. Merely pointing out the condescending nature of your posts throughout this thread.

Secondly, it is, as I said, a mark of the intolerance typical of the theology.

Verses you who is the only one here with an absolute 100% correct theology. Funny.

He does and mostly with information and understanding of Himself. When it comes to God Himself, I cannot think of a question I have He has not answered. There is no “I don’t understand His ways” in my thinking. I know them quite well. But I do not accept Him being cruel as Calvinism forces all it’s adherents to do.

Again, show where Calvin taught that. Post it here.

Fact is, you disagree with scripture in so many ways. (cf. Rom. 11:34)

Your funny.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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This thread proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that what Charles Haddon Spurgeon said is 100% true:

"Men will allow God to be everywhere but on his throne. They will allow him to be in his workshop to fashion worlds and make stars. They will allow Him to be in His almonry to dispense His alms and bestow his bounties. they will allow Him to sustain the earth and bear up the pillars thereof, or light the lamps of heaven, or rule the waves of the ever-moving ocean; but when God ascends His throne, His creatures then gnash their teeth. And we proclaim an enthroned God, and His right to do as He wills with His own, to dispose of His creatures as He thinks well, without consulting them in the matter; then it is that we are hissed and execrated, and then it is that men turn a deaf ear to us, for God on His throne is not the God they love. But it is God upon the throne that we love to preach. It is God upon His throne whom we trust.”

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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Pneuma3

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No you haven't. All you have done is to take a few pieces of scripture "out of context", and built a whole doctrine surrounding it.

But lets not mince words.

Here are the fruits of what you say.

Because you use scripture which says: "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (cf. Phil. 2:10-11) will result in "universal salvation" for all who do this.

If that is the case, why preach? Why tell people they need to repent?

After all, using Pharoah as an example, if you previously make a confession, you'll be saved eventually.

If Annihilationism is fact, then why be saved to begin with? After all, if in 1 year or 1,000,000 years, when my sin debt is paid, I burn up into nothing and disappear, I have escaped the "Lake of Fire".

So the best thing about "universal salvation based upon Phil. 2:10-11 is that we don't need to repent. We don't need to be led by the Spirit. On that day when Jesus returns and the whole world says what is promised in Phil. 2:10-11, everybody will be saved.

So lets abandon Christianity entirely. Lets live any way we want. After all, we have the promise of salvation via Phil. 2:10-11.

Yea...right.

God Bless

Till all are one.

There is nothing out of context in Paul stating we are commanded to teach Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN.

That is the gospel message according to Paul, therefore ALL doctrine should be seen in light of the gospel message. However many people try to fit the gospel message into their doctrine instead of letting the gospel message shape their doctrine.

The doctrine of eternal torment and annihilation are opposed to the gospel message.

Here is something I wrote years ago when a lady asked me the same things you just did.

Why preach the gospel at all?


Without a doubt this is one of the most frequent question asked of me, everywhere I post I come across this question.


Here is my answer to this question


For me the reason Jesus was sent and the reason Jesus sends us is to free people through Him from sin and death. Salvation is not complete just because one believes Jesus died for them. Believing is only the starting point on our journey toward full salvation, for we are reconciled by His death, but saved by His life.

All men everywhere are already reconciled by His death, this is a done deal because He died 2000 years ago for all men's reconciliation and mans belief or unbelief CANNOT change this fact. If someone does not believe Jesus died for then simply does not change the fact that He did.

So then all men everywhere have already been reconciled, but not all men are yet saved from sin and death.


Therefore Jesus send us out in order to proclaim His salvation by His LIFE.
His death reconciled all men, but His LIFE is what saves all men, this salvation is not a one time deal as such, but is a long process of walking in His LIFE and forsaking our own. Taking up the cross and following Him and enduring unto the end that we might be saved.


Thus we are told to proclaim His death and therefore His reconciliation for all men as a FACT that cannot be disputed , and we are to do this so that the entire world can have the same hope in His LIFE that we to have. Thus it is not by His death that sin and death are defeated but by His LIFE.

When we witness about that which Jesus done, we are first to tell all men that they have been reconciled because of His death, this fact breathes hope into the world that God does indeed love them. Then after people become aware of the fact of this reconciliation by His death we are to proclaim His resurrection. And it is because of the fact that He was resurrected OUT OF DEATH that the world is given hope of the same resurrection OUT OF DEATH. We are NOT saved from death, we are saved OUT OF DEATH, for it was while we were DEAD in sin that He died and was raised to life again for us.

So the resurrection is a moving from DEATH to LIFE, so as He died for all men, so to did He rise for all men, and this is the gospel of the good new toward ALL MEN EVERYWHERE.

If one believes Jesus died for all men, should it not go without saying that when He rose again that it was for all men also? Can we really separate His death from His resurrection? If so, how then can DEATH be swallowed up of LIFE?

God bless





After reading my answer this was her reply back to me.



Dear Pneuma,

I totally agree with your description of the gospel. Yes, we are not only dead in Christ but now alive in Christ, praise God. You are right, Christ's death cannot be separated from His resurrection. It was His resurrection that the disciples preached, you are right. It is His resurrection that is the hope for all mankind. The full gospel is the death and resurrection. I agree He died for all, all are reconciled through His death and all are given life through His resurrection, out of death, as you say. I can't however, get past the point of faith (which is given to us by God in His grace anyway, all have the capacity to believe, or reject) and personal response to accepting this truth for ourselves, as revealed by the Spirit to us. I heard John Bevere give a definition of the word 'believe' in as meaning 'to follow'. Believing (in our terms) is first yes, and then taking up our cross daily and living following Christ, I agree is the full walk of salvation. Again, we can only do any of this by God's grace through faith hey.
I feel the Spirit of God on what you have written and thank you.
 
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Pneuma3

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You are presenting yourself as more knowledgeable than I am and accusing me of being wrong but you do not explain how I am wrong. I call this the "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" argument.


Well one of us is obviously correct and the other one is wrong. So one of us is more knowledgeable then the other. You obviously think I am wrong so you obviously think you are more knowledgeable then me. So I hope you have a different pail because that one holds no water.





Did you or did you not us these scriptures





Since according to you 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5 and 1 Corinthians 15:50 don't mean what they actually, literally say please tell me what Paul was talking about? If you can't or won't do that we have nothing further to talk about.



In opposition to Paul stating we are commanded to teach Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN?



Please tell us all why those scriptures teach something contrary to 1 Timothy 4:10



Because that was your point in using them.



And if that was not your point why did you use them when I stated Paul tells us to teach Jesus Christ is the saviour of all men.







You falsely accuse me of promoting another gospel, all I did was quote 4 passages of scripture. Please explain to me how 1 Tim 4;10 means exactly what it says but 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:5 and 1 Cor 15:50 do not mean what they literally, actually say?



Your the one who is saying they oppose each other so it is up to you to reconcile them, which you cannot do according to the doctrines of eternal torment or annihilation.



I have no problem reconciling them, but you were the one who posted them so you are the one who needs to reconcile them for all to see.



Like I said all you do is post what you believe to be contrary scripture to what we are commanded to teach without explaining what Paul means in 1 Timothy 4:10.









Please show me any scripture which clearly, unequivocally states that the unrighteous will be given a second chance after death and "shall be changed, enter into the gates of the city, learn the commandments of God and partake of the water of life?" I have read and taught through the Bible many times and I can't find that verse



Then you should read Rev.22:14-17 and pay special attention to who it is that is without the gates of the city.





Four times in scripture it is written of Jesus "sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool?" Does that happen before or after God saves all of the unrighteous dead?



And who is that last enemies? DEATH



There will be some that proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord out of love and there will be some that say "Jesus Christ is Lord" because they are a defeated enemy



Nonsense, I have already shown the bowing and confession is done in religious veneration and in honour and praise.





and Jesus will say "Depart from me you who work iniquity. I never knew you." I guess "never" doesn't really mean "never." I suppose that someday in the sweet by and by Jesus will say "Now I know you?"



And did Jesus say that to the believers or the unbelievers. Hint it was to those who believe in him.



Another empty accusation. "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" You have yet to explain how I am not promoting what we are commanded to to teach or how I am supposedly opposing it.



Huh! Every post you make is contrary to what we are commanded to teach for we are commanded to teach Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.



Do you or do you not believe Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN?
 
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Pneuma3

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Well one of us is obviously correct and the other one is wrong. So one of us is more knowledgeable then the other. You obviously think I am wrong so you obviously think you are more knowledgeable then me. So I hope you have a different pail because that one holds no water.





Did you or did you not us these scriptures





Since according to you 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5 and 1 Corinthians 15:50 don't mean what they actually, literally say please tell me what Paul was talking about? If you can't or won't do that we have nothing further to talk about.



In opposition to Paul stating we are commanded to teach Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN?



Please tell us all why those scriptures teach something contrary to 1 Timothy 4:10



Because that was your point in using them.



And if that was not your point why did you use them when I stated Paul tells us to teach Jesus Christ is the saviour of all men.







You falsely accuse me of promoting another gospel, all I did was quote 4 passages of scripture. Please explain to me how 1 Tim 4;10 means exactly what it says but 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:5 and 1 Cor 15:50 do not mean what they literally, actually say?



Your the one who is saying they oppose each other so it is up to you to reconcile them, which you cannot do according to the doctrines of eternal torment or annihilation.



I have no problem reconciling them, but you were the one who posted them so you are the one who needs to reconcile them for all to see.



Like I said all you do is post what you believe to be contrary scripture to what we are commanded to teach without explaining what Paul means in 1 Timothy 4:10.









Please show me any scripture which clearly, unequivocally states that the unrighteous will be given a second chance after death and "shall be changed, enter into the gates of the city, learn the commandments of God and partake of the water of life?" I have read and taught through the Bible many times and I can't find that verse



Then you should read Rev.22:14-17 and pay special attention to who it is that is without the gates of the city.





Four times in scripture it is written of Jesus "sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool?" Does that happen before or after God saves all of the unrighteous dead?



And who is that last enemies? DEATH



There will be some that proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord out of love and there will be some that say "Jesus Christ is Lord" because they are a defeated enemy



Nonsense, I have already shown the bowing and confession is done in religious veneration and in honour and praise.





and Jesus will say "Depart from me you who work iniquity. I never knew you." I guess "never" doesn't really mean "never." I suppose that someday in the sweet by and by Jesus will say "Now I know you?"



And did Jesus say that to the believers or the unbelievers. Hint it was to those who believe in him.



Another empty accusation. "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" You have yet to explain how I am not promoting what we are commanded to to teach or how I am supposedly opposing it.



Huh! Every post you make is contrary to what we are commanded to teach for we are commanded to teach Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.



Do you or do you not believe Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN?

sorry don't know how to do the quote thing properly so your reply is highlighted.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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I bet you don't even know what Calvinism teaches.
TULIP
[/quote]
Bottom line, in this thread, everybody is wrong except you.
[/quote]Again the attack on my character cause you’re losing. Glad you have no power to burn non-Calvinists at the stake anymore.[/quote]
You and you alone are the sole repository for the truth.[/quote]Nope, never said anything
close. But your MO is to attract my character.[/quote]
And it still does not change the fact that Calvin was not the "tyrant" you try to believe he is.[/quote] Those who lived under said he was. They says he personally chose his successor to power. Outlawed ice skating and other sinful behavior.
History does not agree with your line of thought.
Yes it does. (after insulting me, is this the best you can do?)
You want to make Calvin a villain based on his theology.
Avtually I read what the Genevaites wrote if him and that was my first awareness of the truth.
What were your exact words? "The theology of Calvinism".

Your funny.

God Bless

Till all are one.
It like listening to demons cackling. Jesus never laughed at those who were wrong. He wept. I’m very sorry for you. I don’t think the false theology and it’s fruit funny.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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So you deny scripture? (cf Rom. 9:22)



So you accuse us (Calvinists) of worshipping the man John Calvin?



And who taught you?



Your so funny. Show me where Calvinism teaches that please.



Post here where I did that. Merely pointing out the condescending nature of your posts throughout this thread.



Verses you who is the only one here with an absolute 100% correct theology. Funny.



Again, show where Calvin taught that. Post it here.

Fact is, you disagree with scripture in so many ways. (cf. Rom. 11:34)

Your funny.

God Bless

Till all are one.
It’s too difficult and wounds me to try to talk to a man who mocks and laughs and scorns other people and then writes such false words like he wishes blessing on those he just laughed and mocked. They mocked Jesus too and it just hurts me that men made in the image of God act like the enemies of God. I wish you all the best but


Adieu!
 
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Dorothy Mae

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who said the first death wasn't annihilation if you refuse to believe?
So the wicked are annihilated and then resurrected to be annihilated? I think the word annihilate is not clear to you.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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cwo

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I don’t believe that. It isn’t like any parable at all. And the whole teaching rests on it being real. If it never happened, it teaches us nothing. It like assuming Cinderella teaches young girls information about finding a mate.

It actually is like a parable, it starts in the same style as the parables that precede it,

And he said also to his disciples, A certain man was rich, who had a manager; and this one was accused by him as wasting his possessions. (Luke 16:1 [ABP])

And he said, A certain man had two sons. (Luke 15:11 [ABP])

There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. (Luke 16:19 [NIV])

Because it is part of a set of parables. Common guys, open your eyes.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Anytime I discuss my beliefs regarding what is to happen to either the saved or the lost in ages to follow this one, it is imperative that I always end my post with "in my opinion".

Did anyone living prior to the execution and resurrection of Christ get that one right? Nope.
Wrong!! Abraham did according to Jesus. And there were certainly others.

Jesus said if we keep his teaching we can know the truth. He wasn’t lying.
And yet in hindsight it was all over the Old Testament. Anyone who "knows" what will happen to the lost or saved after this age is not just ignorant. They are arrogantly ignorant.
If a man or woman supposedly walking with Jesus doesn’t know where they will be when they die, they aren’t very close to Jesus. Paul knew where he was going and he wasn’t arrogantly ignorant. Stephen saw Jesus was standing to receive him. No arrogant ignorance there.

But there is a kind of democratic view in understanding. All men supposedly have the same understanding or they are verbally stoned. No one is supposed to know more about the kingdom of God that anyone else....or else you are called.. .unbelievably...ignorant.

My view is hell is a very bad place and all who go there will deeply regret it and suffer and i would never give anyone reason not to fear what Jesus clearly warned about.
 
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