Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

[he-man]

That is true but Jesus was also warning of punishment for unrepentant sinners.

And here is that punishment:
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (15) And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
New King James Version

 

[Pneuma3]

Anytime I discuss my beliefs regarding what is to happen to either the saved or the lost in ages to follow this one, it is imperative that I always end my post with "in my opinion".

Did anyone living prior to the execution and resurrection of Christ get that one right? Nope. And yet in hindsight it was all over the Old Testament. Anyone who "knows" what will happen to the lost or saved after this age is not just ignorant. They are arrogantly ignorant.

Personally, I used to believe the lost are tortured in Hell for all eternity. I now believe they are basically executed, not just bodily, but their soul as well. That said, I'm willing to entertain that universalism is correct, that all are saved. But that is based on the idea that we really don't know, fully, the fate of the lost, and it is quite possible that in an age to follow this one, "EVERY" knee really does bow. It's easy to find scripture to support this, but also scripture that seems to contradict it. This is true for all perspectives on this. So I say everything in the spirit of, "This is what I believe, but now I see as through a glass darkly. I'll know the full truth on the matter in the next age."

I simply go by what we are commanded to teach according to Paul, who I believe knew what he was talking about. Thus scripture cannot be used to say what we are commanded to teach, which is the gospel, is incorrect. The only doctrine that lines up with what we are commanded to teach is the salvation of all, all other doctrines are opposed to it.

I am glad to hear you are open to the salvation of all for I truly believe what Paul said we are commanded to teach, which the OT calls the restoration of all things spoken by all the holy prophets of old and as they all believed and spoke it can I/we do any less.

 

[DeaconDean]

did he bow in honour and religious veneration, and confess and acknowledge openly and joyfully, to celebrate in praise of ones honour, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father?

"And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the Lord is righteous, and I and my people are wicked. Intreat the Lord (for it is enough) that there be no more mighty thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no longer." -Ex. 9:27-28 (KJV)

You never hear Moses confessing "Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father" but nobody doubts Moses' salvation.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[he-man]

Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…

And now the rest of the story: Lamentations 3:25　 The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.　

Lamentations 3:37　 Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?　


Lamentations 3:38　 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?　
Lamentations 3:66　 Persecute and destroy them in anger from under the heavens of the LORD.

And this is the end resort for those who obey not the commands:
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (15) And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
New King James Version

 

[DeaconDean]

Have you never read how God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with olam/aionios fire and how they will be restored?

I am not aware of any verse that promises Sodom and Gomorrah will be restored. Unless you are referencing Eze. 16:55 and even then, it does not say that.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Easy Listener]

To have a spirit you must be born again. That is what is born. The lost are not born again. They have a body and a soul. Do not fear those who can kill the body. Fear him who can kill the body and soul. We are saved from the thing we have been warned will happen to us if we don't follow God's commandments from the beginning of Genesis to the end of revelation: Death.

And it isn't talking about the death of the body we occupy. It's talking about the death of the person occupying the body. The wages of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life. The fate of the saved is eternal life. The fate of the lost is that they do not receive eternal life. A reasonable person would assume that means death. The good news is that you don't have to assume. It says it. All over the bible.

 

[Pneuma3]

"And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the Lord is righteous, and I and my people are wicked. Intreat the Lord (for it is enough) that there be no more mighty thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no longer." -Ex. 9:27-28 (KJV)

You never hear Moses confessing "Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father" but nobody doubts Moses' salvation.

God Bless

Till all are one.

no one doubts Moses salvation because they believe that Moses will bow and confess Jesus just as the scriptures proclaim. Unless of course you believe salvation can be found in any other name.

 

[Easy Listener]

I simply go by what we are commanded to teach according to Paul, who I believe knew what he was talking about. Thus scripture cannot be used to say what we are commanded to teach, which is the gospel, is incorrect. The only doctrine that lines up with what we are commanded to teach is the salvation of all, all other doctrines are opposed to it.

I am glad to hear you are open to the salvation of all for I truly believe what Paul said we are commanded to teach, which the OT calls the restoration of all things spoken by all the holy prophets of old and as they all believed and spoke it can I/we do any less.

What caused me to consider universalism was, first, that it actually does seem to agree with the personality of God, as described in the new testament, coupled with my discovery of just how poorly the words olam/owam and aion/aionion/aionios are translated. It caused me to re-read scripture regarding what happens after this age. I suddenly saw how we really don't know what we think we know.

And the bible teaches that God is willing that none should perish, yet he says in Matthew 11:21-23:

“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had happened in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to heaven? No, you will descend to Hades! For if the miracles that were performed in you had happened in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.…"

So, He is willing that none should perish, but he chose not to do what would have caused those cities to repent? Sounds like this age is simply one act in a play of many acts. We only have a hint at what will happen in future ages. And I suspect there will be a lot of them - and the saved being in heaven is just one of them, to be followed by who knows what. We see as through a glass darkly. We don't know what we don't know, but we definitely know what the Lord allows us to know. And that is that it is better to be saved than to not be saved, and what we are saved from is death. And what saves us is the blood of Christ.

 

[DeaconDean]

no one doubts Moses salvation because they believe that Moses will bow and confess Jesus just as the scriptures proclaim. Unless of course you believe salvation can be found in any other name.

Whoa, great side-step.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Pneuma3]

I am not aware of any verse that promises Sodom and Gomorrah will be restored. Unless you are referencing Eze. 16:55 and even then, it does not say that.

God Bless

Till all are one.

It doesn't?

Then Israel is not restored either, for it is not until Sodom has been restored will Israel be restored.


In verses 53-63

Also can you explain how if aionios punishment is eternal torment or annihilation, how any punishment can be greater?

Lam.4:6

For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her.

 

[Pneuma3]

Whoa, great side-step.

God Bless

Till all are one.

did not side step, already answered the first part when I said did he did he bow in honour and religious veneration, and confess and acknowledge openly and joyfully, to celebrate in praise of ones honour, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father?

All you did was sidestep the question with a scripture without explaining whether he was doing it via the question or via compunction.

 

[Pneuma3]

did not side step, already answered the first part when I said did he did he bow in honour and religious veneration, and confess and acknowledge openly and joyfully, to celebrate in praise of ones honour, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father?

All you did was sidestep the question with a scripture without explaining whether he was doing it via the question or via compunction.

People can acknowledge God with doing so in religious veneration, but that is NOT what is spoken about in the every knee bowing scriptures.

 

[Pneuma3]

What caused me to consider universalism was, first, that it actually does seem to agree with the personality of God, as described in the new testament, coupled with my discovery of just how poorly the words olam/owam and aion/aionion/aionios are translated. It caused me to re-read scripture regarding what happens after this age. I suddenly saw how we really don't know what we think we know.

And the bible teaches that God is willing that none should perish, yet he says in Matthew 11:21-23:

“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had happened in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to heaven? No, you will descend to Hades! For if the miracles that were performed in you had happened in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.…"

So, He is willing that none should perish, but he chose not to do what would have caused those cities to repent? Sounds like this age is simply one act in a play of many acts. We only have a hint at what will happen in future ages. And I suspect there will be a lot of them - and the saved being in heaven is just one of them, to be followed by who knows what. We see as through a glass darkly. We don't know what we don't know, but we definitely know what the Lord allows us to know. And that is that it is better to be saved than to not be saved, and what we are saved from is death. And what saves us is the blood of Christ.

well we agree in part for eye hath not seen or ear heard all the things God is preparing for those who love him.

 

[Pneuma3]

well we agree in part for eye hath not seen or ear heard all the things God is preparing for those who love him.

but salvation according to scripture was taken care of by Jesus. He died for all, he rose for all

 

[DeaconDean]

did not side step, already answered the first part when I said did he did he bow in honour and religious veneration, and confess and acknowledge openly and joyfully, to celebrate in praise of ones honour, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father?

All you did was sidestep the question with a scripture without explaining whether he was doing it via the question or via compunction.

No, you said every knee shall bow and confess. Which means that when the Lord returns, by implication, the result will be "universal salvation". If you are correct, that also means Pharoah was saved.

That is not taught.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Pneuma3]

No, you said every knee shall bow and confess. Which means that when the Lord returns, by implication, the result will be "universal salvation". If you are correct, that also means Pharoah was saved.

That is not taught.

God Bless

Till all are one.

no it means Pharaoh WILL be saved, not that he was saved way back in the day.

 

[DeaconDean]

no it means Pharaoh WILL be saved, not that he was saved way back in the day.

No, it doesn't.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Pneuma3]

No, it doesn't.

God Bless

Till all are one.

No it doesn't is your defense?
What does God say just before he says every knee shall bow etc.?
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
and then he swears by himself, as there is none greater that every knee shall bow etc.

This is talking about salvation and God swore by himself that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

And that the scripture is speaking of salvation should tell every reader that the bowing and confession is done in religious veneration and honour and not by compunction. thus all will be saved, just as the gospel Paul tells us to proclaim.

Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN.

 

[DeaconDean]

No it doesn't is your defense?
What does God say just before he says every knee shall bow etc.?
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
and then he swears by himself, as there is none greater that every knee shall bow etc.

This is talking about salvation and God swore by himself that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

And that the scripture is speaking of salvation should tell every reader that the bowing and confession is done in religious veneration and honour and not by compunction. thus all will be saved, just as the gospel Paul tells us to proclaim.

Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN.

Maybe according to your beliefs.

But not according to scripture.

Sorry

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Pneuma3]

Maybe according to your beliefs.

But not according to scripture.

Sorry

God Bless

Till all are one.

well I just gave you scripture that says exactly what I have been saying.