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The State of the Dead

PROPHECYKID

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What do you make of this?

1 Thessalonians 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless
at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Its an expression of the entire being. The greek word used here for soul can mean the breathe or it can also mean the mind. Paul wanted to emphasis the entire being, not necessarily that your mind is another component to your body. Your thoughts only become generated when the body is alive. Your thoughts and mind is not an existence on its own that can leave the body. When you dies your consciousness goes. That's my explanation.

But what do you make of this.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
 
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Colter

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What nonsense are you talking? Our form will keep changing as we travel from world to world? Can you show me just 1 scripture to validate what you're saying? Let me ask you this, if you're wrong and actually you would be living in heaven forever would you be disappointed?
It will get boring just sitting around without serving others in different capacities. The bible doesn't really say much about heaven.
 
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redleghunter

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The Times

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the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The dust is the terra forma the body of flesh is created for.

The breath of life is the spirit the body of flesh is given, to start its biomechanical chemistry processes.

The man (human) became a living soul, means that the biomechanical body, that worked on chemistry, became much more than a biomechanical robot with a predetermined function, in that it had self identity, a free will, an intrinsic awareness that other created creatures didn't have.

The animals have only a patented biomechanical chemistry assigned to them, allowing their inbuilt robot like functions to adapt and to survive on instinct alone, without having any comprehension of self awareness. The animals are the natural AI elements of creation and they are merely the first attempt of God to use, so that Adam will not be lonely. Yet, God knew that AI programs in the natural realm, would not serve the deep desire of a conscious self aware being and so he genetically took from man an X gene and made the XX chromosome which resulted in a woman. A woman was bore out of a man, his side, meaning his genome X.

The origin of man is God's breath. The origin of a woman is from man's side.

Sure, elephants go to the dead bones of relatives and perform the act of weeping, but this is merely an inbuilt programmed feature, it is not an awareness of self in the making.

Remembering the pets like dogs and cats have an inbuilt emulation AI creation programme that allows them to be man's companion, for that is what God created animals for. In esssence, the AI is adapting to situation, but it is not an awareness of self. After the fall, another programme was added as a corruption to man's corruption and so that animals became fair game and animals were given the function to defend themselves against man and other animals.

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Bio chemistry perisheth with the perishing of the biomechanical body, but the self aware self, is immaterial and is not part of the material realm, it is written.....man became a living soul....in that God did not use the tools of the material realm to make the soul, rather man just became, meaning......there was no material content from the material realm that was used and no inherent function as compared to the functions the plants and animals were given, where man just became, meaning he was not merely a chemistry realisation of brain/chemistry matter thought processes that began, but aside from the brain/chemistry matter thought processes, the man became from that instant, without any biomechanical chemistry markers, remembering that the brain/matter/chemistry of a material living organism was already functional and breathing after the breath of life, but that something else, that is immaterial was there irrespective of the living organism itself. Man just became, just like God is the I Am, man just became at that moment.

Animals didn't just became, but they only are AI Living organisms, operating on predefined functions, that can be adaptable from AI unit to AI unit depending on learning function. A Chimp, can be taught everything a man is, as a companion, but can never be made self aware, even though it would look in a mirror and immulate everything a man is, but it will always be bound by the constraints of its programming.

Man just became, is a moment where man became self aware, irrespective of the body that self awareness was clothed with. This same self awareness is a transient state that is temporarily bound by a biomechanical earthly body and once the biomechanical body dies, the transient conscious state now departs into the ethereal realm not comprised of material itself. This realm is a darkened state, yet God clothes this naked state, with a celestial body, fit for conscious habitation in the light world that is beyond the earthly dust world and this is the new heaven and the new earth existence.

Man has sought immortality throughout the ages and with technology, man cannot cloth a soul with another totally different body interface, hence they only play with dirt in the mud and have no access or control to the transient state of the soul and hence prolonging life would mean sustaining the mechanical body chemistry with continued life support by technological means and yet the soul will not cleave onto iron (cybernetic technology) and clay (dirt interface) and will inherently leave to go to the ethereal realm, yet the scientists will only realise that all they have is an AI programme after the self aware being is long gone. One can imagine that if a soul is a glimmer of light on a soul radar, then as the failed venture takes him to AI technology, the glimmer of light as emulated on X Men movie, is slowly demishing, where there will be no light in this world or the origin of man (flesh self aware being) and all that remains is a horror flick of West World robots roaming the plain with no purpose. Like a factory that is run by robots, for no apparent serving purpose, even after the developers are long gone, continues to run as a ghost city.

The self is not our thoughts.
 
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Saint Steven

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No because the issue was not about explaining what the afterlife is like. This parable was a message to the Jews especially the pharisees. They were the stewards of the gospel, the Jews were supposed to be the ones to evangelize the world. The rich man in the parable is a representation of the Jewish nation. They were rich with the gospel but were stingy and selfish with it, not wanted to share it with the begger lazarus who was a representation of the gentiles. The point of the parable is that just being a physical descendant of Abraham doesn't mean you are close to him at all. You claim Abraham as your father but yet your heart is far far away from Abraham's God. The message of God was entrusted to them but they used it to view themselves better than everyone else, to view other people as unclean, to not even want to talk to them, to look down on them. This theme is represented in many of Jesus's parables all using different illustrations. In the parable of the wedding feasts, the people who the invitation was originally given rejected it and were eventually lost. In the parable of the tenants and the landowner who went away but sent his servants to collect his product, they killed them, then he sent his son, they rejected and killed his son and were eventually destroyed when the master came back. So this parable follows the same line. How do I know that? Because the rich man asked the Lazarus be sent to warn his brethren, but Abraham said to him that they have Moses and the prophets. Its the same as in the parable with the tenants where God sends his prophets and they ignore and kill them. Matthew 23:37, Jesus says it plainly.

The parable also can be looked at in a more straightforward way. The belief at that time was that being Jewish means you were privileged for salvation but being rich means you were doubly privileged. Poverty and sickness were seen as signs that someone was not favored by God and was a sinner. Almost time same as how they viewed gentiles. So Lazarus being poor means he was not really supposed to be saved. The rich man, being rich means he was supposed to be saved. But the parable shows their destinations to show that their mindset was completely wrong.

All of this is what I believe the parable is really trying to say, not to try to explain what the afterlife is like. To me that is like using the parable of the 10 virgins to try to say at the second coming of Jesus there is literally going to be a wedding. Figuratively you can describe it like that, but literally no. So I do not believe that Abraham's Bosom is a literal place, but the bosom is a symbol of closeness and a parental bond.
If the beggar Lazarus was an unsaved gentile, why did the angels carry him to heaven to be comforted by Abraham?

So, if the parable had been about an alien abduction, you would have been fine with it? By your logic the content of the parable matters not. I disagree.

Why would Jesus intentionally mislead his listeners? Just because you don't believe him doesn't mean that he wasn't teaching the truth.
 
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Saint Steven

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Its an expression of the entire being. The greek word used here for soul can mean the breathe or it can also mean the mind. Paul wanted to emphasis the entire being, not necessarily that your mind is another component to your body. Your thoughts only become generated when the body is alive. Your thoughts and mind is not an existence on its own that can leave the body. When you dies your consciousness goes. That's my explanation.

But what do you make of this.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Thanks.
I said earlier that the word "soul" has more than one definition. I think your definition is limited. I prefer the NIV to the verse you presented.

Psalm 146:4 NIV
When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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Thanks.
I said earlier that the word "soul" has more than one definition. I think your definition is limited. I prefer the NIV to the verse you presented.

Psalm 146:4 NIV
When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.

I have my own issues with the NIV but it really doesn't change anything. Eccl 12:7 says that the dust returns to the earth and the spirit returns to God who gave it. The hebrew word is the same, they are both referring to the same thing.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

So this spirit is the breath of life which is the vital life force of the body but it not another independent exist that allows you to live on outside your body.
 
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Saint Steven

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I have my own issues with the NIV but it really doesn't change anything. Eccl 12:7 says that the dust returns to the earth and the spirit returns to God who gave it. The hebrew word is the same, they are both referring to the same thing.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

So this spirit is the breath of life which is the vital life force of the body but it not another independent exist that allows you to live on outside your body.
There are 29 references to the "realm of the dead" in the NIV Bible. You check your favorite translation to see how many are there in yours. Here's one.

Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This says: "... in the realm of the dead, where you are going". What do you suppose that is about?
 
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PROPHECYKID

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Thanks.
I said earlier that the word "soul" has more than one definition. I think your definition is limited. I prefer the NIV to the verse you presented.

Psalm 146:4 NIV
When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.

It makes sense to limit the definition because in actuality it cannot be many different things. If we make it mean many different things then we can simply apply a different definition to support whatever we want the bible to say. But that does not mean the word cannot be used in different ways, because words can be always used figuratively to mean something else, but the definition of the word itself remains the same. Like when you someone is motivated and you are trying to urge them on and you say to them "that's the spirit", you are using spirit to mean attitude.
If the beggar Lazarus was an unsaved gentile, why did the angels carry him to heaven to be comforted by Abraham?

So, if the parable had been about an alien abduction, you would have been fine with it? By your logic the content of the parable matters not. I disagree.

Why would Jesus intentionally mislead his listeners? Just because you don't believe him doesn't mean that he wasn't teaching the truth.

Again, this is a made up story for once, this did not actually happen. A parable is a made up story to illustrate a point. Also, why do you assume that he was an unsaved gentile. That was one of the points of the parable. Jesus wants to save everybody but the people who was supposed to be his agents for salvation to the world, held it all for themselves and refused to share it with anybody. In fact, they were always in constant rebellion so they could not even get to that point. Again, would there be a literal wedding at the second coming? By your logic, if I do not believe there will be a literal wedding at the second coming then I am not believing Jesus because according to the parable of the ten virgins there is going to be a wedding and in fact, it will be at midnight. But doesn't the bible say no many knows the day nor the HOUR that the son of man cometh? So my point is, not to take literal parts of a parable as doctrine.
 
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Saint Steven

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It makes sense to limit the definition because in actuality it cannot be many different things. If we make it mean many different things then we can simply apply a different definition to support whatever we want the bible to say. But that does not mean the word cannot be used in different ways, because words can be always used figuratively to mean something else, but the definition of the word itself remains the same. Like when you someone is motivated and you are trying to urge them on and you say to them "that's the spirit", you are using spirit to mean attitude.


Again, this is a made up story for once, this did not actually happen. A parable is a made up story to illustrate a point. Also, why do you assume that he was an unsaved gentile. That was one of the points of the parable. Jesus wants to save everybody but the people who was supposed to be his agents for salvation to the world, held it all for themselves and refused to share it with anybody. In fact, they were always in constant rebellion so they could not even get to that point. Again, would there be a literal wedding at the second coming? By your logic, if I do not believe there will be a literal wedding at the second coming then I am not believing Jesus because according to the parable of the ten virgins there is going to be a wedding and in fact, it will be at midnight. But doesn't the bible say no many knows the day nor the HOUR that the son of man cometh? So my point is, not to take literal parts of a parable as doctrine.
I don't believe it is a parable and Jesus was not sent to the gentiles.

Matthew 15:24
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
 
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PROPHECYKID

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I don't believe it is a parable and Jesus was not sent to the gentiles.

Matthew 15:24
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

Yes Jesus was send to the lost sheep of Israel, but the intention for the nation of israel was for them to reach the other nations. Jesus didn't choose Israel because he wanted a people to save, he wanted to save everybody. The promise to Abraham was that through him ALL nations of the earth will be blessed.
 
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Saint Steven

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Yes Jesus was send to the lost sheep of Israel, but the intention for the nation of israel was for them to reach the other nations. Jesus didn't choose Israel because he wanted a people to save, he wanted to save everybody. The promise to Abraham was that through him ALL nations of the earth will be blessed.
What parts of The Rich Man and Lazarus are not true about the afterlife?
 
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The Times

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If you had a brain transplant, who would you be?

I will first provide you the answer, followed by the long explanation below.

Neither is the answer.

There is no such thing as a brain transplant.

Let us consider your hypothetical ok.....

As soon as the brain is put in another body, there is the question of how the body, inclusive of the brain, be it the Central Nervous System (CNS) is married to a soul.

Can the creation system be fooled to accept a central nervous system of one individual to another?

Central nervous system includes brain and spinal cord, assuming a hot swap can be accomplished.

A hot swap in computer lingo means that you can swap a peripheral card/device or hard disk without needing to power off the machine. Obviously, a hot swapping a CPU ( Computer processing Unit) with another CPU cannot be achieved, without power disruption to the CPU itself and the state in which it is, whether sleep mode or powered on state. The CPU will still need booting up, with all the checks and balances it goes through to come to the state it left off from.

Basically the brain within the central nervous power platform, like the CPU example, cannot be hot swapped, without flat lining an individual, where the brain would clinically be dead. Note, coma patients are not clinically dead, neither are those under anaesthesia.

Again.....this question arises.....

Can the creation system be fooled to re-accept a central nervous system of one individual to another through flat lining both individuals ?

It would be scientific to claim, that each individual is married to their Central Nervous System.

If you flat line an individual, I believe you flush out the soul ID, which is purposely and uniquely permitted by the Creator, to be married to that Central Nervous System. That is like saying that the administrator rights and privileges, are a permission key at conception, when God creates the spark of life with the permission granted for that particular unique ID soul access, just like an address location IP HTTPS security access.

Note, sometimes the security access is not granted to the biomechanical flesh body interface and as a result a child is "still born", meaning the body is there, but no one (soul ID) there. Like a smart jacket without the person who wears it, though the jacket may have all the smart gadgets, inclusive of the CPU/Brain.

Once a flat line or clinical brain death condition is achieved, the Soul ID is flushed out and no longer has let's say the https security access (analogy) to the cloud base, where the cloud base is this creation reality itself.

That is why upon severing the head from the body, as they did in ancient times, the soul ID https access code is removed. The Hebrews writer states, that all men are destined to biologically die once, then judgement.

Transplanting a brain does not transplant the soul, but in fact removes the access code for that individual to access the material creation reality.

To answer your question, a person getting a brain transplant, would neither be the brain being transplanted, nor the brain that is being transplanted. After flat lining the central nervous system, all brain matter connected to spinal cord will render both brains as inaccessible to any soul ID and would be like a still birth scenario, that is no one there.

Note in a still birth, the body and brain are still in tact, that is they are biomechanically and chemically fine, but there is no activity present. An empty shell with no one there.
 
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Saint Steven

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I will first provide you the answer, followed by the long explanation below.

Neither is the answer.

There is no such thing as a brain transplant.

Let us consider your hypothetical ok.....

As soon as the brain is put in another body, there is the question of how the body, inclusive of the brain, be it the Central Nervous System (CNS) is married to a soul.

Can the creation system be fooled to accept a central nervous system of one individual to another?

Central nervous system includes brain and spinal cord, assuming a hot swap can be accomplished.

A hot swap in computer lingo means that you can swap a peripheral card/device or hard disk without needing to power off the machine. Obviously, a hot swapping a CPU ( Computer processing Unit) with another CPU cannot be achieved, without power disruption to the CPU itself and the state in which it is, whether sleep mode or powered on state. The CPU will still need booting up, with all the checks and balances it goes through to come to the state it left off from.

Basically the brain within the central nervous power platform, like the CPU example, cannot be hot swapped, without flat lining an individual, where the brain would clinically be dead. Note, coma patients are not clinically dead, neither are those under anaesthesia.

Again.....this question arises.....

Can the creation system be fooled to re-accept a central nervous system of one individual to another through flat lining both individuals ?

It would be scientific to claim, that each individual is married to their Central Nervous System.

If you flat line an individual, I believe you flush out the soul ID, which is purposely and uniquely permitted by the Creator, to be married to that Central Nervous System. That is like saying that the administrator rights and privileges, are a permission key at conception, when God creates the spark of life with the permission granted for that particular unique ID soul access, just like an address location IP HTTPS security access.

Note, sometimes the security access is not granted to the biomechanical flesh body interface and as a result a child is "still born", meaning the body is there, but no one (soul ID) there. Like a smart jacket without the person who wears it, though the jacket may have all the smart gadgets, inclusive of the CPU/Brain.

Once a flat line or clinical brain death condition is achieved, the Soul ID is flushed out and no longer has let's say the https security access (analogy) to the cloud base, where the cloud base is this creation reality itself.

That is why upon severing the head from the body, as they did in ancient times, the soul ID https access code is removed. The Hebrews writer states, that all men are destined to biologically die once, then judgement.

Transplanting a brain does not transplant the soul, but in fact removes the access code for that individual to access the material creation reality.

To answer your question, a person getting a brain transplant, would neither be the brain being transplanted, nor the brain that is being transplanted. After flat lining the central nervous system, all brain matter connected to spinal cord will render both brains as inaccessible to any soul ID and would be like a still birth scenario, that is no one there.

Note in a still birth, the body and brain are still in tact, that is they are biomechanically and chemically fine, but there is no activity present. An empty shell with no one there.
Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful response to my question. I appreciate that.

Yes, I am fully aware that a brain transplant has not been done before, and that the mind/will/emotions/life experiences, etc. would probably not go with it. Lost in the process? Where would it go? Would it continue to exist in some form?

So yes, it was a hypothetical.
The point is that if we were able to do that, the identity of the person (soul) would be in the contents of the mind, not in the physical entity it now inhabits.
 
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Sorn

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Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful response to my question. I appreciate that.

Yes, I am fully aware that a brain transplant has not been done before, and that the mind/will/emotions/life experiences, etc. would probably not go with it. Lost in the process? Where would it go? Would it continue to exist in some form?

So yes, it was a hypothetical.
The point is that if we were able to do that, the identity of the person (soul) would be in the contents of the mind, not in the physical entity it now inhabits.


Until we understand more (if we ever do) about how the brain works and how mind arises then it's purely guesswork as to what would happen in a brain transplant, assuming it is ever possible. Is a brain transplant the same as a head transplant?

In any case, it may be that we are purely physical beings while on earth but that at the moment of death God transfers our consciousness into a soul, ie the soul (which one would think is created by God at some point) may be created by him at the point of our death, prior to that we may be just physical beings.
 
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Saint Steven

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Until we understand more (if we ever do) about how the brain works and how mind arises then it's purely guesswork as to what would happen in a brain transplant, assuming it is ever possible. Is a brain transplant the same as a head transplant?

In any case, it may be that we are purely physical beings while on earth but that at the moment of death God transfers our consciousness into a soul, ie the soul (which one would think is created by God at some point) may be created by him at the point of our death, prior to that we may be just physical beings.
We have a soul already.

1 Peter 1:9
for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Saint Steven

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I guess I see the brain as an organic hard drive. Basically as recording and operating memory storage. The INFORMATION part of that relationship is who we are. Our mind/will/emotions all in storage. That data could be loaded into another "brain" (organic hard drive) to operate as us. You could wake up as a chicken, but it would be you. Except with an overwhelming urge to scratch at the ground for food. lol
 
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