Is Salvation all there is?

[Bartek Swierczek]

Do

 

[drjean]

I'd say you got extremely, extremely lucky.

Obviously, I wasn't all that important to the body of the church I worked in and others I paid tithes to. I left and no one called, no one wrote asking where I went. I wasn't shocked. I remember the great experience I had at two other churches. Went to the big shot pastors for counseling. Told one I was suicidal, and he said, "there is nothing I can do for you." Another one told me, "you just need to see your doctor" and wanted me, the person with Bipolar, out of his office (and probably the building) as fast as possible. That same church had the singles minister and the select group, the main clique, having private prayer meetings only a few were invited to. I used to see some of them in public and they would act like they didn't know me from Adam when I said hello. It got around and many of us left the church over it and the singles minister was fired for playing favorites. He left for "other opportunities" and it was all hush-hush. God forbid their throng of ministers getting paid fancy salaries actually reach out to the ones their minister screwed over when they saw almost a third the singles group quit. Of course, when their music minister got caught...let's just say he was a closet gay and propped a cop in a park...it was all over the local news. They couldn't quietly fire him. Yeah, I'd say churches have been so wonderful. As soon as church was over, the only people happy to see me was my car.

You know, I was saved at home not in church.

I was telling someone at work about my experiences, he works with kids who have been burned out on churches like I have been, and he pretty much agreed, "churches have become country clubs" where friendship is rarely offered....unless you are a professional or married w/kids.

I hear ya. It's when we look at others and their mistreatment that quenches the Spirit within us, imo.
Part of my past and testimony is that I was a preacher's wife and a volunteer with the huge church organization, being a region director for young women at the time... and of course went to the wive's groups etc... but when my then spouse wanted a divorce, insisted I divorce him so he could stay in the ministry.... NOT A SINGLE PERSON CALLED ME. I can only look back and wonder what lies he had told about me to make them side with him and not encourage me. Of course if I had gossipped and all that, they might have changed their minds??? I was ostracized from them entirely, was removed from my volunteer position... and mind you, I was ministering to women in maybe 50 churches...not a single call or contact. Now THAT could have stopped me from serving Christ forever...but I simply cannot allow the devil to use the misbehavior of others to stop me from sharing Jesus' love!

[PS I was disabled in an industrial accident 30 years ago and have PTSd from the harrowing event, and subsequent stalking of the insurance company.... ]

I do miss the fellowship as well, as others have shared. I miss church in the sense of an organized worship, unity etc. But I miss the fellowship of other believers... but at this point how do I know it's real for them? It's real for me...and that has to be enough for me until Jesus returns!

 

[seekingmuch]

I hear ya. It's when we look at others and their mistreatment that quenches the Spirit within us, imo.
Part of my past and testimony is that I was a preacher's wife and a volunteer with the huge church organization, being a region director for young women at the time... and of course went to the wive's groups etc... but when my then spouse wanted a divorce, insisted I divorce him so he could stay in the ministry.... NOT A SINGLE PERSON CALLED ME. I can only look back and wonder what lies he had told about me to make them side with him and not encourage me. Of course if I had gossipped and all that, they might have changed their minds??? I was ostracized from them entirely, was removed from my volunteer position... and mind you, I was ministering to women in maybe 50 churches...not a single call or contact. Now THAT could have stopped me from serving Christ forever...but I simply cannot allow the devil to use the misbehavior of others to stop me from sharing Jesus' love!

[PS I was disabled in an industrial accident 30 years ago and have PTSd from the harrowing event, and subsequent stalking of the insurance company.... ]

I do miss the fellowship as well, as others have shared. I miss church in the sense of an organized worship, unity etc. But I miss the fellowship of other believers... but at this point how do I know it's real for them? It's real for me...and that has to be enough for me until Jesus returns!

He spread lies about you and they ate it all up. Sorry, he was an (expletive) and so were all that followed him. (((((Hugs)))))) I bet God is thrilled with your ex. Hey, DM me his name. I want to make sure I never, ever give his ministry a dime. That guy is a low-life P.O.S. making you the one to initiate the divorce so he could keep his cushy job. He obviously had a jellyfish for a spine. LOL He wasn't a man nor a human being letting you do that. And, yeah, God should toss him out on his butt because I'm sure he was screwing around on you (probably with some women in your ministry or the piano player or his secretary). Unless the wife is a psycho, guys leave wives for another woman 99% of the time.

Yes, I'm sure they spread lies about me because of my Bipolar. But, you know what? What goes around comes around. I forgive, but I don't forget.

You know what amazes me about churches? How judgmental all those hypocrites are. And, yes, I am a HYPOCRITE! I admit it. I ain't perfect, never will be perfect.

 

[drjean]

Ok I'd probably use other words and terms... but have come to the conclusion that he is someone who is incapable of truly being saved. So sad. You are correct in your assessment, however, he was a part time Coasty/sailor

So... how do we feel fulfilled as Christians when there's no one with which to fellowship? I mean, we both know that GOD is enough...but again "no man is an island" and God created Eve because even Adam, whom walked and talked with God daily in the garden, was lonely!!! Why are WE required to be this way when GOD knows we cannot be fully happy this way??? Ok. Rant over.

 

[Serving Zion]

I guess he's busy.

Short staffed is more like it (Matthew 13:26, Luke 10:2), but also it sounds like the imbalance of representation has taken it's toll on your attitude (1 Corinthians 15:33), that is manifesting now in a type of depression - that actually is reinforcing a fear of trusting. I just wish the truth of the apostasy wasn't so deep and widespread that people would naturally think it is some conspiracy theory. This is the real truth of what has happened! (Look carefully at Luke 19:14).

 

[faroukfarouk]

It's amazing to be saved. Not everybody is. What a privilege and what a wonderful thing to recieve. And you have the Holy Spirit within you - He doesn't have to show up - He's right there all the time. I also take medication which totally dulls feeling. I think.....Who cares? The Bible tells me that 'I KNOW whom I have believed'. It doesn't say 'I feel good about whom I have believed'. So I accept with my mind and get on with the job!

Christianity is all about building a deeper and deeper relationship with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It's a bit like a theatre - when you accept salvation, you come in off the street into the foyer. Then you begin to grow with prayer, reading the Bible and fellowship. This is like coming inside and watching the performance, while making your way gradually to the front. Then you keep praying, reading and growing......and One day, when Jesus returns, you can choose to be right there on the stage with Him. It's going to be the most wonderful thing we can imagine, but yep, there's some commitment and hard graft in having relationship - else you just stay out in the foyer and miss all the fun and rewards.

I'm curious when you say you 'don't understand the Bible' because of your childhood? Reading or listening to the Bible is VITAL to your growing relationship with God, so that's something to work on as soon as you can. My husband didn't learn to read till he was 27 - when he became a Christian and needed to read it. If you just don't get what it's all about, join a study group. Small groups are also much easier to start fellowshiping in, as you get to know the people better, faster.

God does love you, and really really wants to have a real relationship with you, but you gotta put in the work. Keep trying. It's worth it in the end.

Hebrews 2.3 describes it as so great a salvation.

 

[seekingmuch]

Ok I'd probably use other words and terms... but have come to the conclusion that he is someone who is incapable of truly being saved. So sad. You are correct in your assessment, however, he was a part time Coasty/sailor

So... how do we feel fulfilled as Christians when there's no one with which to fellowship? I mean, we both know that GOD is enough...but again "no man is an island" and God created Eve because even Adam, whom walked and talked with God daily in the garden, was lonely!!! Why are WE required to be this way when GOD knows we cannot be fully happy this way??? Ok. Rant over.

So... how do we feel fulfilled as Christians when there's no one with which to fellowship?

I honestly don't know.

 

[Serving Zion]

when there's no one with which to fellowship?

This part simply isn't true! .. you have said yourself that you have given up the search, plus, you seem to have become discouraged because you have been looking in all the wrong places (can you pick a fig from a thorn bush?). Consider what it means to say that God does not show favouritism: Romans 10:19-21, Matthew 9:38. Why not go into the streets and start asking people for their thoughts on God? This is what we do as evangelists when we have something to share with people - but you can be just as much a seeker in the same way either way you are giving Him the chance to manifest and do His work in your midst (Matthew 18:20), and you are more likely to not be giving the devil a foothold (Matthew 6:23).

 

[Serving Zion]

Also, just so that there is no mincing of words, Jesus does require disciples that are bold enough to quote Matthew 8:11-12 against churches when it is appropriate.. or else, what does He gain by having ransomed us?

 

[Bartek Swierczek]

So

 

[seekingmuch]

This part simply isn't true! .. you have said yourself that you have given up the search, plus, you seem to have become discouraged because you have been looking in all the wrong places (can you pick a fig from a thorn bush?). Consider what it means to say that God does not show favouritism: Romans 10:19-21, Matthew 9:38. Why not go into the streets and start asking people for their thoughts on God? This is what we do as evangelists when we have something to share with people - but you can be just as much a seeker in the same way either way you are giving Him the chance to manifest and do His work in your midst (Matthew 18:20), and you are more likely to not be giving the devil a foothold (Matthew 6:23).

I didn't ask that question. Drjean did.

 

[seekingmuch]

Also, just so that there is no mincing of words, Jesus does require disciples that are bold enough to quote Matthew 8:11-12 against churches when it is appropriate.. or else, what does He gain by having ransomed us?

The pastor that tossed me into darkness when I was suicidal is still the big shot. The 2nd pastor is dead. The 2nd one was pastor a long, long time. He was a good man, but clearly cared nothing about me when I needed to talk and wanted me out of his office as fast as possible. You know what really ticks me off about both? I paid their church tithes faithfully. Scrimped and saved. Did without. And, when I needed them, I got the finger. Neither were stupid rubes, either. They were learned men. The second definitely had people in his congregation with mental health issues.

Serving Zion, exactly how many churches am I supposed to continue going to? Church has changed over the last 30-40 years. I'll be bluntly honest with you. When I was kid being dragged to churches by my narcissist father and yelled at and called names in front of those people, they didn't care either. They didn't care about me, my brother or my mother who was being abused. Maybe one of them should've found the courage to get in my abusive father's face and tell him exactly what kind of loser he really was. But, they didn't. Some told my mom to leave my father and didn't offer any help whatsoever to do it. My father cheated on my mom so many times it was ridiculous. I walked on eggshells the whole time I grew up giving me an anxiety disorder and Bipolar. I still walk on eggshells.

Serving Zion, maybe you should find some compassion for people like me and DrJean? I'm glad you've had it soooooo easy and have been soooooo blessed in the churches you've attended and apparently had a wonderful childhood free from abuse. Must be nice not to be thrown to wolves because you're not disabled like Drjean and I. I went to church looking for community and have not found it. I think very few find it nowadays. It is very hard to go to church week after week and nobody really cares if you are there or not. I've sit 99% of the time alone, by myself. It got old.

I remember reading about this lady who went to church and this elderly couple asked her to eat lunch with them. She talked about how they basically "adopted" her. It made me real, real sad. Nobody ever did that for me....and probably never will. She is so lucky. She was one of the few singles I read that had a positive thing to say about her church related to this article about how single people are pariahs in the church.

Serving Zion, you said, "...that actually is reinforcing a fear of trusting." Oh, yeah, due to my abusive childhood, I have little trust whatsoever. I trust people as far as I can throw them, God included. I've learned that the hard way---love has a price; it always has a price. My needs were never met as a child so I simply learned to stop asking, from anyone, including God himself.

 

[Serving Zion]

Serving Zion, maybe you should find some compassion for people like me and DrJean?

Just hold up there.. now you are asking me to manufacture a deep sincere passion of caring that you also assume is not a natural thing for me - it's not a realistic thing to ask for, so all it is reflecting is that you feel as though I am lacking a level of compassion that you expect. It is an expression of pain, and yet from my perspective it is not a fair accusation to lodge at me. So I cannot allow that spirit to continue in you without bringing it into the open for confrontation. I am going to show you something to back this up:

I'm glad you've had it soooooo easy and have been soooooo blessed in the churches you've attended and apparently had a wonderful childhood free from abuse.

This is absolutely not true at all, and I recognise this, the spirit that speaks to me through you is not the spirit of truth - I cannot allow you to address me in that way.

In my view, it is you that is lacking compassion toward me, and I'm not sure why you have assumed to be justified to do so, but you've believed the wrong ideas about me and that path will not lead you into life, because my Lord does not speak to me the way that you have done.

I actually have not had it easy as you would suggest, and where you speak of abuse in a past tense, that is a luxory that I desire.

So I'm going to let you just take that on board and I will see what your heart becomes in light of this information.

I do have a lot of insight to offer you though, because of what I have already come through. I am most eager to share with you what I have received, and to give even more freely than I have received.

Don't get me wrong though, be very careful about this. The ideas you got about me did not come from a reliable origin. I don't hold a grudge or anything like that, you just need to be of the right spirit and we can be constructive and Jesus can do His work and then healing will follow. Let me know how you want to proceed and I will respond accordingly.

 

[Bobber]

.

 

[seekingmuch]

I actually have not had it easy as you would suggest, and where you speak of abuse in a past tense, that is a luxory that I desire.

I'm sorry you were abused. That is terrible. (((((Hugs)))))

I still walk on eggshells day by day at times. I still feel worthless--I don't think that will ever go away totally. The church certainly has not been an uplifting experience. There is obviously some code or secret handshake or some password I don't know that never got me in. Maybe it is just churches today. Maybe they have gotten so big and huge they are all impersonal. I do think the latter is a lot of it. I've always thought of God as the outsider, the rebel. I'm definitely the rebel because I've always existed on the fringes of society. Church, for 25 years, offered me no friendships beyond the acquaintance stage. Too bad.

Bigger isn't better: According to recent research from Ed Stetzer and Christian Schwarz, "The stats tell us that ten smaller churches of 100 people will accomplish much more than one church of 1000."
https://www.christianitytoday.com/pastors/2015/spring/your-small-church-is-big.html

You should read that big study they did on churches a few years ago. It was an eye opener. I'm still struck by the stat: "only 10% go to church hoping to find community."

"Perhaps more poignant than reasons not to turn up for church are the motivations of those who do, swimming upstream against the cultural current. Adults who believe church is very important cite two reasons above the rest: to be closer to God (44%) and to learn about God (27%). One in five (22%) say they go to church because the Bible teaches fellowship with other believers. And in spite of a growing epidemic of loneliness, just one in 10 report going to church because they are looking for community."
https://www.barna.com/research/americans-divided-on-the-importance-of-church/#.VL09cYh0ycx

 

[narrowgateevangelist]

2 Peter 1: 4. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6. And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7. And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peter relates to us that these things are in addition to our salvation. Loneliness is a real part of existing in this fallen world.

Seek God in his Word. James 1: 5. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. -

Your patience in Christ will definitely yield results. Though the results might not be what you thought they'd be when you began searching. God bless you.

 

[Bobber]

I still walk on eggshells day by day at times. I still feel worthless--I don't think that will ever go away totally. The church certainly has not been an uplifting experience.

Well hold on here a minute. What exactly do you think church is? It's not a building it's really a people. Don't you find a lot of people on here talking to you always seeking to encourage you? From what I've seen that's the case. This is church here too you know. No matter what you're thinking of places you go to geographically in your car to a building that can't be defined by no means in totality as the church. Yes there's problem with institutional buildings of churches and their formats of doing services sometimes gets in the way of believers being put in a place where they have to be interactive.

OK ...you go to church....it's a one or two hour session....music for 30 minutes, announcements for 10 sermons for 40 minuets maybe a calling up for prayer for 20 (depending on what type of church one goes to) by that time people are tired. They want to go home. I think what you've found is the way an manner in which church services are carried out really can be a hindrance from people talking to one another getting to know each other on a personal basis. Thus is seems unfriendly. If you were talking to some of those church people on line you'd find them a lot more interactive OR if they had home groups where REAL fellowship and getting to know one another takes place.

I'm definitely the rebel because I've always existed on the fringes of society. Church, for 25 years, offered me no friendships beyond the acquaintance stage. Too bad.

Well get in their face and tell them they need to repent then! I'm meaning that half jokingly but there is a truth....Just tell them you need me and I need you and look we've got to build the Kingdom of God together. Your job as a member of the body of Christ is to seek to strengthen others so don't hold back just lay it all out. Who knows? You might cause a rival in a church. I guess you and I have always the choice. Are we going to be a part of a problem or the part of a solution. Surely we don't want the Lord to say to us, "Yes they were wrong but you were wrong too!" Most of the time that's the case. We're ALL wrong. But we don't have to stay that way. We can choose if we want to be the very catalysis for change.

 

[Greg J.]

Honestly, I got saved way back in 1991 and finally felt loved and accepted. Got the baptism of the Holy Spirit six months later.

1993 for me and I didn't feel loved and accepted, however, the deep dark quality of my loneliness disappeared and has never returned. Baptised in the spirit about 3 years later.

Six months into, know I know what happened but didn't for 25 years, the Holy Spirit deeply triggered my Bipolar and my past. Things went haywire. No longer felt loved and accepted. I lived in hell for 25+ years. Never thought I was good enough or worth anything. I thought God talked to me for years. Listen for the "still, small voice" thing. It was just my brain making things up. God maybe talked to me two or three times in 25 years.

I've had significant depression and bipolar disorder II since 1998. I suffered significantly for 20 years, 10 of which could definitely be referred to as "hell." I've had other mental illness-related pain for 25 more years in addition to those 20. You aren't alone. There are a number of people that participate in these forums who have been through similar things, as well. Some people find support groups valuable. You get to see people worse off than you and you are thankful you don't have that, and you get to see people who are better off than you, which gives you hope. It is also an opportunity to talk with people that have some understanding of what you've been through.

Finally, someone told me God is not a taskmaster and is not just tolerating me. For a few days I felt better, but, honestly, it just felt empty. I told God, "I don't feel loved." I know it my head, but not anywhere else. The Holy Spirit, if he ever shows up, which is rare, I immediately am fearful and wonder endlessly why he's there--what bad did I do now? type thing.

He is certainly not a taskmaster, and he loves you enormously. How much does God the Father love Jesus? That's exactly how much he loves you. It is not dependent on what's right or wrong with you, it is dependent on the love that is in his heart. (However, feeling his love is an entirely different matter.)

Honestly, church over the last 25 years has been one lonely place. People are friendly but they don't want anything to do with you outside of church. Much of that I think is because I'm single and not a professional, and/or not married with kids. I worked in the tv ministry at the last church, and when I decided, why am I going? It's just lonely. I quit. No one ever called or ask why I left. It was like I didn't exist. So, honestly, I have no desire for church anymore. There's no offer of friendship or community to belong to so what's the point?

Same as the majority of my church years, although I still like going to hear the sermon. I'm hearing impaired so it's not just a social problem at church, I also just can't have a casual conversation with anybody because it is so noisy. Most humans are struggling to overcome conflict, anxiety, and pain, every moment of their lives (even if they don't recognize that they are in distress because of being separated from God). It is a rare person that both perceives your need and will focus on you for long. And even if they do, in my USA subculture, it is difficult to approach someone with something helpful in mind, and also difficult to accept someone approaching you with something helpful in mind. We do not have a culture where suffering is accepted. It's not happy news and it reminds people of their own pain as well as—sometimes—their own inability to help others as much as their moral code dictates (causing them to feel ashamed).

I actually do believe on 20% in churches are saved anyway. Half probably go because it is the right thing to do. Another group go for signs and wonders (they followed Jesus around when he was here, too). And, some go because they like the singing (or the "show" as I call it in some churches).

You are generous! I figure it is more like 10%, and a only a tiny fraction of those are reasonably fulfilling the first and greatest commandment (Mark 12:30).

I told God. I don't feel loved. With meds, it's hard to feel anything sometimes anyway, and mine blocks a lot of emotion since that is what it works on. Other than salvation, what is there?

Yeah, meds do that. I can't remember what unbounded happiness or joy is anymore, although I suspect most of that is the natural result of being jaded by pain and false expections for my life and the world's behavior. However, there is much, much more God has for every individual in this life.

I actually believe now when you are saved, you are saved. You don't have to do a thing. You are under Grace (ask forgiveness once and day and don't worry about sin). God can't take away from you. Satan can't steal it. Believe in ACTS 16:13 and that's it. I personally think it is the most important scripture, along with John 3:16, in the Bible. And, yes, I realize very few people really understand salvation and Grace. Both are constants. They can't change or Jesus's crucifixation, death and resurrection is all a lie.

I do not think you meant Acts 16:13, but I am curious what the correct reference is. You can read some recently written thoughts I had about what it takes to be saved here, if you are interested.

Jesus was only out of contact with God once. On the cross when he became sin. Other than that, I guess they always were together. I just feel like, besides salvation, there really is nothing. I'm still lonely. God loves me. So? He loves everybody. I've never felt God was interested in me much. I wrote my first book. God never said a thing. I was like, some friend you are. You can't say one word? LOL I thought seriously about that after finishing my 2nd book. God never said a thing.

I love God, but I really don't get what is so great about Christianity. It seems as empty as everything else. How God talks to us is beyond me. Dreams, an actual voice, impressions, the Bible, which I don't understand due to my horrible childhood. We never went to Sunday School.

First off, if you have not irrevocably chosen Jesus, the Son of the living God, and God himself, as your God (1 Corinthians 8:5-6), then that is one hindrance from you receiving from him. Another hindrance is sin, which pushes God away whenever you do it. If you want to overtly receive from God frequently, it usually requires a purity of heart that comes from sincere commitment to live as Jesus did, and obedience to him that necessarily follows that.

But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. (1 John 2:5-6, 1984 NIV)

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31-32, 1984 NIV)

This reference to "know"ing the truth, is the kind of knowledge that comes from obedience ("hold to my teaching"), which we would call "genuinely believing the truth"—which always results in obedience. It is through abiding in him and obedience that God transforms us.

Some other examples of struggling to live according to God's spirit that God responds to:

“Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you. (Deuteronomy 5:16, 1984 NIV)

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. (Malachi 3:10, 1984 NIV)

Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; (Romans 8:5-6, 1984 NIV)

Lastly: obedience, trying to know what God is like through Bible study (e.g., 1+ hours per day?), and prayer (e.g., 1+ hours per day) will pull you close to God and you will experience your connection to him more. You can seek God for help with anything nonsinful (ask and keep asking, seek and keep seeking, knock and keep knocking—Matthew 7:7; Luke 18:1, 7). You can seek him for more transformation into Jesus' likeness, which is his primary interest for any individual other than for us to get to know Him better. Some attributes to seek him for:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23, 1984 NIV)

Focus more on God himself rather than friends, churches, or pastors. God will provide everything if you do that (Matthew 6:33).

EDIT: Oh, I should mention that not feeling loved, having few friends, little fellowship, and so forth can be because you do not know people who have suffered as you have. You might feel like no one understands you, or that you don't understand them. You might discover you can form quick connections with people who have been through twenty years of terrible suffering as long as you are similarly comfortable/uncomfortable in sharing what you've been through. It is rather likely that there are people at your church that have suffered because of mental illness, and some that have suffered from something for decades. Consider how you might share your story to entice them to come forward, or how your church might facilitate finding them.

And if you are not a part of a small group that meets weekly, get yourself into one ASAP. You may want to try many so you can find one you like. Sometimes they are called Bible studies but have time set aside for fellowship (chatting, sharing, eating).

 

[ViaCrucis]

I love God, but I really don't get what is so great about Christianity.

The Apostle St. Paul in Ephesians 2 famously mentions that we are saved by God's grace, the kindness and generosity of God, and that this is through faith which is not of ourselves, it is God's gift; and that it isn't our efforts or ability which save us. He says this to remind us of the hope we have in Jesus and also to kill our pride, "so that no one may boast". But he doesn't stop there, he goes on to say that not only are we saved by grace, but that we have been saved for something. There's more than the question of "saved by what?" there's also the question of "saved for what?" Paul answers that this way:

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10)

There is a place in Christianity for good works, but Paul wants to be exceedingly clear about what purpose good works serve in our religion. Good works are not to earn us brownie points, good works are not about us impressing God, or improving our position before God, or our getting right with God, or getting better with God. Good works are not for God's sake, God doesn't need them, in fact as the Prophet Isaiah says, "and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment" (Isaiah 64:6). Even our most noble of works are tainted by sin, and don't amount to anything before the righteousness of God, which is why no work of obedience to God's command can make us righteous, holy. That doesn't change the fact that 1) God still commands us to love our neighbor and do good and 2) we have been created in Jesus for good works. So the role of good works is not in our justification, our holiness, our righteousness before God; instead the role of good works is for our neighbor, our fellow human beings.

Jesus says in Matthew 25 that "I was hungry" and "I was thirsty" and "I was naked" and "I was sick" and "I was in prison" and "I was a stranger"; how we treat "the least of these" is ultimately how we treat Christ. Did we feed the hungry? Did we give drink to the thirsty? Did we bring medicine and visit the sick? Did we clothe the naked? Did we comfort those in prison? Did we welcome the stranger? At the end of our days, when we stand before Christ our Judge, how we treated people, especially the weak and the vulnerable, is what is going to matter.

Christianity isn't chiefly about us, it's about Jesus and other people. The message of the Gospel is for us--for everyone--because we need the life-giving mercy and forgiveness of God in Jesus, because it is through Jesus that God is reconciling, redeeming, healing, restoring, and saving the world. But it doesn't end when we have heard the message, baptized, and begin our Christian life. Here is the beginning of our life with God, and then the whole Christian life is then grounded in the truth of Jesus' cross--it is here we make our life by losing it. To drown ourselves daily in repentance, to hear the Word, to receive the Sacraments; that we might receive daily the life-giving mercy of God in Jesus which is the medicine for our damaged soul as we look forward to the future hope of eternal life in the age to come. But that's still only one side of the Christian life, what Lutherans call the Coram Deo "Us before God"; there is also the other side, the Coram Hominibus "Us before human beings". It is here in the Coram Hominibus that we sacrifice ourselves to a life of good works and service, to the carrying of our cross as disciples, to live our faith out into the world for the good of others.

God has invited us to share in His life by giving ourselves freely to others, even as He freely gives Himself.

The kingdom of God is not about keeping all the treasures we have received from God to ourselves, remember the Parable of the Talents, a landowner was going on a journey and summoned his servants, giving to one five talents, to another two, to another just one. When he left on his journey the servant with one talent decided to bury it in the ground, while the other servants used the money wisely investing it. When the landowner returned, the servant who had buried his talent in the ground was sharply chastised for not doing something with it. As servants we are called to a life lived outwardly--to be a people of Jesus for the world, to go and enter into the hard places, the dark places, to reach out with the love and kindness of our Lord. What good is a candle if you cover it up? What good is salt if it loses its taste? The Lord says "Let men behold your good works that they might praise your Father in heaven".

So the point of the Christian life isn't simply to bury it, but to live it. The point of the Christian life is to die, to live that life of sacrifice toward others in love, service, humility, kindness. Because through these things the kingdom of God is beheld, and the poor are lifted, the weak are strengthened, the widow and the orphan are cared for.

In his letter to the Church in Rome, the ancient Christian bishop Ignatius of Antioch wrote that he desired to not simply be called a Christian, but to be found a Christian. He wrote this as he was being escorted as a prisoner from his native Antioch to Rome to face his certain death. He pleads with the Christians in Rome to not beg for his life, or try and prohibit him from facing death; instead he accepts his death and desires to not just be charged with being a Christian, but that the sum of his life--even in the face of death--might be rooted in his faith in Jesus. To die not merely being called a Christian, but to die as a Christian. "Then" he says, "I shall truly be Christ's disciple."

"I write to the Churches, and impress on them all, that I shall willingly die for God, unless you hinder me. I beseech of you not to show an unseasonable good-will towards me. Allow me to become food for the wild beasts, through whose instrumentality it will be granted me to attain to God. I am the wheat of God, and let me be ground by the teeth of the wild beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of Christ. Rather entice the wild beasts, that they may become my tomb, and may leave nothing of my body; so that when I have fallen asleep [in death], I may be no trouble to any one. Then shall I truly be a disciple of Christ, when the world shall not see so much as my body. Entreat Christ for me, that by these instruments I may be found a sacrifice [to God]. I do not, as Peter and Paul, issue commandments unto you. They were apostles; I am but a condemned man: they were free, while I am, even until now, a servant. But when I suffer, I shall be the freed-man of Jesus, and shall rise again emancipated in Him. And now, being a prisoner, I learn not to desire anything worldly or vain." - St. Ignatius to the Romans, ch. 4, dated to c. 107 AD

As the Apostle says, "To live is Christ, and to die is gain." (Philippians 1:21)

-CryptoLutheran

 

[com7fy8]

I only miss fellowship with other believers, chatting, praying together and Bible study. I guess that's why I registered here two days ago... So far CF is an interesting place to be

@seekingmuch >

Even if we find a really good church or home group and/or for-real individuals, there will be the evil and wrong and thorn-in-the-flesh ones who will be able to mess with us. So, in order to keep such people from spoiling our sharing with really Christian people, we do need to become strong and sensible and compassionate enough to deal with the problem people while we share with our Jesus family people.

So, it can be good to find out how to do well while having not for real leaders and members around you. Or else, we could be allowing wrong people to decide how we are and what we can do!!!!

We in Jesus are not predators, we do not just use people, and we are not victims. Jesus is better, in His kingdom. The animal kingdom is a prey and predator kingdom, like how in Satan's kingdom humans are preying and suffering being hurt and only used. So, we need to grow and have the strength and wisdom of Jesus so we are living and loving as family, but having compassion and forgiveness ready for enemies but also for our Jesus family people > because we ourselves will be wrong and needing correction, at times.

So we need, then, to be ready with compassion for one another, for when even our most genuine ones at times can fail, so we do not become emotional basket cases when they do fail us somehow. It works to pray when this happens and restore one another so we can then go on with all the good with God which we share, instead of throwing that all out just because of some temporary problem which we do not need to make a permanent one . . . for our own selves.