Is it moral?

[NBB]

Well people are doubting if God is moral, if you say God is immoral because x that is not judging?

 

[Rajni]

Well people are doubting if God is moral, if you say God is immoral because x that is not judging?

It's judging a concept, and behaviors attributed to that concept,
rather than judging God Himself directly.

Who knows God well enough to even do that in the first place,
anyway?

-

 

[NBB]

It's judging a concept, and behaviors attributed to that concept,
rather than judging God Himself directly.

Who knows God well enough to even do that in the first place,
anyway?

-

Yes but if you say that the behaviours of God are immoral, that doesn´t turn you away from him?

 

[Rajni]

Yes but if you say that the behaviours of God are immoral, that doesn´t turn you away from him?

It might turn someone way from the particular ideas of Him
they find immoral. I don't think one necessarily has to turn
away from a theistic mindset completely, given that there are
many god-concepts out there. They simply reject certain ideas
or definitions of what constitutes "God". In other words,
atheism isn't the only guaranteed outcome.

 

[NBB]

It might turn someone way from the particular ideas of Him
they find immoral. I don't think one necessarily has to turn
away from a theistic mindset completely, given that there are
many god-concepts out there. They simply reject certain ideas
or definitions of what constitutes "God". In other words,
atheism isn't the only guaranteed outcome.

Ok, but when someone says ´i found God´ and ´Jesus is the only way´ we have a problem.
Or you can be a christian rejecting the idea of eternal hell because of that i guess

 

[Rajni]

Ok, but when someone says ´i found God´ and ´Jesus is the only way´ we have a problem.

"I've found God" and "Jesus is the only way" aren't
necessarily contradictory terms if the person in question
believes that Jesus=God.

 

[Noxot]

Is it moral to torture someone for eternity because of finite crimes?

no ofc not.

is it moral to teach one different conditions of being and what they entail?

 

[bhsmte]

Is it moral to torture someone for eternity because of finite crimes?

IMO, no.

I know there are different takes on the Christian theology, but one I have a big problem with is this;

If someone does not believe in Christianity, they are doomed. Does not matter whether they live a life of helping others, they are doomed.

On the other hand, the serial killer who finds Jesus on death row, is saved.

I find that a morally bankrupt theology.

 

[maty55]

it is not moral

 

[cvanwey]

IMO, no.

I know there are different takes on the Christian theology, but one I have a big problem with is this;

If someone does not believe in Christianity, they are doomed. Does not matter whether they live a life of helping others, they are doomed.

On the other hand, the serial killer who finds Jesus on death row, is saved.

I find that a morally bankrupt theology.

If I may add my 2 cents as well...

It becomes an 'amoral' pronouncement. It does not even really involve morals at all. Lack in belief does not encompass, or even involve, 'morality'.

If one does not adhere to Mark 16:15-16, they are doomed. Once presented with a specific concept, and still rejects the presented concept, due to one's own lack in 'needed' evidence, if actually true, is then doomed.

Lack in belief of something is neither moral nor immoral, but is instead an amoral conclusion.

Morals are irrelevant. Example... If I believe Jesus died for me (to deliver salvation), I will still break the ten commandments all the way up to the point of expiration, won't I?

 

[bhsmte]

If I may add my 2 cents as well...

It becomes an 'amoral' pronouncement. It does not even really involve morals at all. Lack in belief does not encompass, or even involve, 'morality'.

If one does not adhere to Mark 16:15-16, they are doomed. Once presented with a specific concept, and still rejects the presented concept, due to one's own lack in 'needed' evidence, if actually true, is then doomed.

Lack in belief of something is neither moral nor immoral, but is instead an amoral conclusion.

Morals are irrelevant. Example... If I believe Jesus died for me (to deliver salvation), I will still break the ten commandments all the way up to the point of expiration, won't I?

I think it comes down to this:

When you judge people based on what they claim to believe, vs the behaviors they display towards others, I will take a pass on that.

 

[cvanwey]

I think it comes down to this:

When you judge people based on what they claim to believe, vs the behaviors they display towards others, I will take a pass on that.

Agreed. The entire premise of Christian theology is not even remotely based upon 'works' anyways. Belief is the be-all-end-all. Can one 'will' them self to believe China does not exist?

 

[bhsmte]

Agreed. The entire premise of Christian theology is not even remotely based upon 'works' anyways. Belief is the be-all-end-all. Can one 'will' them self to believe China does not exist?

The mind can convince oneself of amazing things, if their is enough psychological need present.

I used to be a Christian and I got to a point, I simply couldn't keep believing as I learned over time, without trying to fool myself and I don't do well with that.

At the end of the day, to each's own. If religious beliefs makes someone a better person and able to cope with life, go for it.

 

[Noxot]

Agreed. The entire premise of Christian theology is not even remotely based upon 'works' anyways. Belief is the be-all-end-all. Can one 'will' them self to believe China does not exist?

just because a bunch of church people who are ignorant believe such things does not make them the Truth that Jesus spoke of or that the bible expresses. it is due to the popularization of the message that everything became watered down to nothingness.

 

[cvanwey]

just because a bunch of church people who are ignorant believe such things does not make them the Truth that Jesus spoke of or that the bible expresses. it is due to the popularization of the message that everything became watered down to nothingness.

I expressed nothing about using 'a bunch of church people who are ignorant' as any barometer reading to such a conclusion. Such a conclusion is taken directly from the Bible itself.

Without belief, you are 'furnace fuel'. Morals are secondary, or maybe even not relevant.

 

[Noxot]

I expressed nothing about using 'a bunch of church people who are ignorant' as any barometer reading to such a conclusion. Such a conclusion is taken directly from the Bible itself.

Without belief, you are 'furnace fuel'. Morals are secondary, or maybe even not relevant.

yeah your argument has to be this way otherwise it falls apart. the truth of the matter, which I could back up with the bible itself, is that people are lazy and incompetent when it comes to knowing the things of God.

 

[Noxot]

belief has always been more than knowledge

Matt 21:28-32 (ESV2011)
“What do you think? A man had two sons. And he went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ And he answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind and went. And he went to the other son and said the same.

And he answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you.

For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. And even when you saw it, you did not afterward change your minds and believe him.

belief equates to righteousness. belief is to BE the divine destiny one has.

Jas 2:14-20 (ESV2011)
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?

So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?

 

[cvanwey]

yeah your argument has to be this way otherwise it falls apart. the truth of the matter, which I could back up with the bible itself, is that people are lazy and incompetent when it comes to knowing the things of God.

Nice straw man

It's a good thing you are in the actual 'know' of all things the Bible

 

[Noxot]

Nice straw man

It's a good thing you are in the actual 'know' of all things the Bible

just gave you a few bible verses. I can quote scriptures for you all day but I get sick of people not understanding.

 

[Noxot]

here are some more that shows real belief. belief is communion and union with God.

Heb 6:1 (ESV2011)
Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

2Thess 1:11 (ESV2011)
To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power,

1Thess 1:3 (ESV2011)
remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rev 2:19 (ESV2011)
“‘I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first.

Col 2:11-12 (ESV2011)
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Gal 5:6 (ESV2011)
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

Gal 3:11 (ESV2011)
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Ps 33:4-5 (ESV2011)
For the word of the LORD is upright, and all his work is done in faithfulness. He loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of the steadfast love of the LORD.

Deut 32:4-6 (ESV2011)
“The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he. They have dealt corruptly with him; they are no longer his children because they are blemished; they are a crooked and twisted generation. Do you thus repay the LORD, you foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who created you, who made you and established you?