Are 'White Lies' ever okay?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And that is true. Only God can reveal to us what is true and the deeper meanings of His word. Just like Jesus used parables to get people to think even more, so should we try to look deeper into the situations that the people of old were presented with

Sorry no, "looking deeper" like that won't help you nor has it helped anyone, except perhaps to be deceived more (at least in practice as seen around the world) .

Yahweh Himself will Reveal Salvation and Everything Concerning Salvation to the little children , while HIDING IT from the educated.

Seek Yahweh, for His Revelation as He Says, not man's way(s),

seek Yahweh for the LIFE OF CHRIST, not religion, not man's way,

and all that Yahweh gives in Christ - Righteousness, Peace , Joy (all that the world cannot touch nor understand!) Daily !
as well as Wisdom, Knowledge (and Experiential Knowledge of His Presence) , and Understanding
ALL FREELY GIVEN WITH SALVATION IN JESUS.

 

[Cement]

I found that whenever I spoke a lie I would have the propensity to speak another. When I stopped lying I no longer had any such propensity. Same with curse words the more you use them the more you will have a propensity to curse.

 

[WorshipArtViolin]

Sorry no, "looking deeper" like that won't help you nor has it helped anyone, except perhaps to be deceived more (at least in practice as seen around the world) .

Yahweh Himself will Reveal Salvation and Everything Concerning Salvation to the little children , while HIDING IT from the educated.

Seek Yahweh, for His Revelation as He Says, not man's way(s),

seek Yahweh for the LIFE OF CHRIST, not religion, not man's way,

and all that Yahweh gives in Christ - Righteousness, Peace , Joy (all that the world cannot touch nor understand!) Daily !
as well as Wisdom, Knowledge (and Experiential Knowledge of His Presence) , and Understanding
ALL FREELY GIVEN WITH SALVATION IN JESUS.

By deeper I meant not taking some of the literal meanings...like I said, people are quick to quote scripture yet they don't fully understand the basis of the whole story it was used in. Some parts are self explanatory, others aren't ... If parables weren't already explained to us by Jesus' words, would you take the literal words and just go with it???

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

By deeper I meant not taking some of the literal meanings...like I said, people are quick to quote scripture yet they don't fully understand the basis of the whole story it was used in. Some parts are self explanatory, others aren't ... If parables weren't already explained to us by Jesus' words, would you take the literal words and just go with it???

No. I let the Father or Jesus reveal the truth, to grant the understanding of Scripture - to grant the Father's meaning in all things.
He is overjoyed , well-pleased , to do so, as Jesus Says in the NT.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

(cont.) from previous posted link: (test everything before accepting it, even at that link, yes - it has not all been tested / proven true yet, not all.....)

"Revelation 21:8 - All liars have their part in hell
The next scripture which condemns lying is Rev 21:8 which states that all liars have their part in the lake of fire. If this verse if read in isolation it definitely gives the impression that it is referring to all kinds of liars. But it actually isn’t. All of those sins mentioned in that verse refer to some specific set of events taking place during the tribulation, after all the context is set at the end of the tribulation period. The lying in this context refers to preaching and teaching a lie (cf. 1 Tim. 4:1, 2). It refers to propagating false doctrine. There would be a lot of false doctrine during the tribulation period (many false prophets and false teachers) even more so than today. Note that this does not refer to theologians who hold to a slightly differing viewpoint on peripheral issues. It refers to those preaching doctrines that lead people away from Christ. In the context of Revelation it refers to those who were doing the bidding of the Antichrist. But in a broader sense it refers to anyone who leads people away from the true Christ."

(the worse preachers are the ones who speak some truth, for the purpose of getting the sheep to never find the Kingdom of God, of keeping them from finding out they have been deceived)

 

[Loren T.]

So getting people killed is better than showing them love? You would be guilty of murder so doing.

Sorry I misread the question. I thought you were asking what I would say to the Nazis if I was hiding Jews.

 

[DamianWarS]

If asked about hiding Jews in your attic in Nazi Germany, would you answer yes or no? Love would answer No. But legalism would answer Yes.

I see Godwin's Law takes effect early in the conversation

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So getting people killed is better than showing them love? You would be guilty of murder so doing.

No argument for most cases you mean, I think,
but
didn't most believers in the first century
realize they were "martyrs" when they were immersed into Jesus' Name to Live His Life as He said -
they no longer even considered their own lives worth saving(did not draw back from being murdered) if it meant denying Jesus (they would and did die before becoming apostate or denying their faith in Jesus).

In the more 'spiritual' sense, Jesus own words,
a disciple must "die" to self, daily, to be His disciple ....

 

[th1bill]

If you get someone killed telling the truth you not only share the blame, but you also betray the killer leading them

.

Look, I killed quite a few men and assisted in the extermination of many, many, more in my twenties. And for the twenty+ year I plated my guitars and sang my way through the Joints and ladies of my piece Texas, drinking 101 Wild Turkey, cooling off with 16 ounce Lites by Miller.

But YHWH broke my heart in '90 and drew me to Him and made me the husband of one wife, a Bible Teacher and music director and leader of Worship service. And best of all, He made me an heir to the entire Kingdom for Eternity.

 

[Clint Edwards]

If asked about hiding Jews in your attic in Nazi Germany, would you answer yes or no? Love would answer No. But legalism would answer Yes.

If Oscar Schindler hadn´t lied every time he turned around, he would have saved no one.

 

[Clint Edwards]

This is great. But what about David acting crazy to deceive King Achish 1 Samuel 21:12–13.

Or God sending lying spirits to deceive Ahab?

“and the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ And the Lord said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has declared disaster for you.”” (1 Kings 22:20–23)

Did Rahab lie ?

 

[Saint Steven]

I used to have a gal doing piece work for me for a company.
The work came to her already bundled and counted.
But she had to count every one as she did them
to make sure she was not paid for more than she did.

I explained that she didn't have to do that.
But she firmly believed in doing the "honest" thing.
She was a real sweetheart, so I let her do it the way she wanted to.
But I had to ignore her nonsense to keep the numbers straight on my end.

If your boss asks you if you use proper procedures.
The correct answer is always, "Yes." (because you do)

If a police officer asks if you have had anything to drink.
The correct answer is always, "No." (because you don't) ​

 

[Neostarwcc]

I've been reading through former threads on lying, but those situations always seem life or death, like 'if I'm hiding fugitives is it okay to lie to the bad guys' kind of scenarios.

I've read some scripture that says to either tell the truth or be silent- but I had a situation recently where it was difficult to do either.

So say in a hypothetical situation, someone gets you a Christmas present that you already bought for yourself a few weeks ago. After Christmas, you haven't touched it and they ask you if you've used it yet- but you've used yours.

According to the scripture, you can either stay silent, which would be awkward and confusing, or you can tell the truth- no, and you won't use it because you bought it yourself.

The third option is a half-lie half-truth; you've used the item, but not the one they got for you.

Both biblical options have the potential to hurt the other person's feelings, which is why I'm struggling to come up with an answer for this.

Any opinions on this? I know the situation is small and somewhat silly, but that's when a lot of 'white lies' come around. I know white lies are still lying, but what would the correct option be when the truth can come off as hurtful?

Its always best to tell the truth. But this is easier said than done. If I bought a gift for you that you already bought for yourself I would be more embarrassed than mad. If however you lied to me about it I would get really mad. Its always better to tell the truth.

 

[Ken Rank]

It seems that those who say never lie ,are doing just that ,but are unaware that they are doing so .
I just checked the 10 commandments .The NINETH says " Do not bear false witness against your neighbour ". Just that , no more .

And that is "against your neighbor" that has nothing to do with Christians who lied to the Nazi's to protect Jews in WW2.

 

[Ken Rank]

Many many verses, I'll name just one with the proper definition.
Proverbs 12:22 - Lying Lips are an abomination to the Lord, But those who deal faithfully are His delight.

In KJV, this word Lying comes from the original hebrew word 'sheqer'
You can read the original meaning of it here -- https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8267&t=KJV
--------------
Strong’s Definitions H8266; an untruth; by implication, a sham (often adverbial):—without a cause, deceit(-ful), false(-hood, -ly), feignedly, liar, lie, lying, vain (thing), wrongfully.

This is just one out of many about telling lies.

And I will ask you the same question I asked others... despite being his seed, despite him being listed among the greats of the faith in Hebrews 11... Abraham is a liar?

 

[Eric Abbott]

And I will ask you the same question I asked others... despite being his seed, despite him being listed among the greats of the faith in Hebrews 11... Abraham is a liar?

Absolutely... Abraham was a sinner and was awaiting in Hades for the savior.

Although in this case... technically, Sarah and Abraham were half brother and sister.. it was not until the law of Moses when it became against God's law for close relatives to marry.

"'No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD.
Leviticus 18:6

 

[Ken Rank]

Absolutely... Abraham was a sinner and was awaiting in Hades for the savior.

Although in this case... technically, Sarah and Abraham were half brother and sister.. it was not until the law of Moses when it became against God's law for close relatives to marry.

"'No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD.
Leviticus 18:6

Wow.. well, we don't see things anywhere close to the same. The "law of Moses" existed before Sinai, it was at Sinai when it was placed in writing with the judgement and ability to prosecute added so Israel, as a new nation, could use God's Torah as their national rule of law. Even Genesis 26:5 says that Abraham obeys God's law, His commandments... which shows us (as does a number of other places) that the "law" existed before Sinai.

As for Abraham waiting in hades/hell? Hmm... ok... where do you get that from, the PARABLE?

 

[Eric Abbott]

Wow.. well, we don't see things anywhere close to the same. The "law of Moses" existed before Sinai, it was at Sinai when it was placed in writing with the judgement and ability to prosecute added so Israel, as a new nation, could use God's Torah as their national rule of law. Even Genesis 26:5 says that Abraham obeys God's law, His commandments... which shows us (as does a number of other places) that the "law" existed before Sinai.

As for Abraham waiting in hades/hell? Hmm... ok... where do you get that from, the PARABLE?

I can already tell you we are going to be at this all night, I will bring up all of my arguments and we will counter each other for hours and no progression at all would be made.

I know I am correct, and you know you are correct. God is outside of time, unfortunately I am not.. just going to end it here before I get sucked into it.
Much respect

 

[Clint Edwards]

And that is "against your neighbor" that has nothing to do with Christians who lied to the Nazi's to protect Jews in WW2.

How about this. My friend, a paramedic, arrived at the scene of a horrific accident with dead bodyś lying around a little boy, whom he knew aws going to die due to massive injuries, blood loss and shock before he could be transported. There was nothing to be done. He cuddled the terrified boy and the boy asked my friend, if he was going to die, he told him no, and hugged him till he bled to death in a few minutes.

Who was the boys neighbor ? My friend told a bold faced lie to him. While he was crying telling me about this, should I have told him that he was wrong and had exercised poor judgement ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And I will ask you the same question I asked others... despite being his seed, despite him being listed among the greats of the faith in Hebrews 11... Abraham is a liar?

It is likely the other one will not understand for quite some time,
but Yahweh's Grace is so Immeasurable, we may hope and pray it be not so long !

Abraham lied - but Yahweh did not consider it sin against him,
and , like the mid-wives who saved Moses, (AND OTHER BABIES TOO) , who lied to the AUTHORITIES who would have murdered the babies,
yet thought Abraham and the mid-wifes lied, they were not liars.