How do I ACTUALLY be saved?

[JoeP222w]

Salvation is by Christ. The dead cannot save themselves.

I agree completely and that is what I wrote.

It is possible to fall away.

That would contradict your previous 2 statements.

If one falls away, they never were saved in the first place. They never repented of sin. They were never born again. They never trusted in Jesus Christ. They did not know the Lord.

 

[JoeP222w]

.

 

[Kiterius]

I agree completely and that is what I wrote.



That would contradict your previous 2 statements.

If one falls away, they never were saved in the first place. They never repented of sin. They were never born again. They never trusted in Jesus Christ. They did not know the Lord.

I did not contradict myself joe. Nice try. We disagree is all.

 

[JoeP222w]

.

 

[Chinchilla]

Repentance is more than just being sorry for the sin.

It is acknowledging the sin.
It is confessing the sin before God that it is indeed sin.
It is apologizing to God for the sin.
It is stopping the practice of that sin, by God's grace.
It is focusing on Jesus Christ and asking Him to help you become more Christ-like and asking for help against temptations to sin.

To whom had God to confess , apologize , and stop his sin when he said that he has repented ? Did God acknowledge that he is sinner aswell ?
Jonah 3:10
“And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.”

 

[JoeP222w]

,

 

[Kiterius]

You will not find in the Bible where one who is adopted and saved by God by His grace will eternally fall away.

Hebrews 6. Nuff said.

 

[JoeP222w]

.

 

[1213]

...
To be honest, I'm kind of in panic mode. I don't want to do good works my entire life just to be confident that God would be pleased with me.

Sure thing is, you can’t earn salvation by doing good works. But if you are righteous, you want to do good works, because you understand it is good. And if you are righteous, God gives you a gift that is the eternal life.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Sure thing is also, your sins are forgiven freely. That means you are saved from the judgement that would come because of sin. Salvation means that you are saved from the judgment.

But when you are saved from the judgement, why would you want to continue in sin and reject the salvation?

What is the reason why you don’t want to do what is right and good? I think the problem is not really the works, because they are only result of the mind. If mind is righteous, it produces righteous fruit and if mind is unrighteous, it produces bad fruit. So the question is, why would you want to produce bad fruit instead of good?

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

God’s commandments are not grievous, when you have the wisdom of the just and understand why some things are not good and right.

But don’t be afraid, God is good and patient. But I think you should carefully think, if you want something that is against God’s will, why you do so.

 

[Kiterius]

.

There's an intelligent response.

 

[justbyfaith]

There's an intelligent response.

Are you feeling better, Benny?

 

[ladodgers6]

You said that ungodly is the same as wicked. So, if you compare Romans 4:5 to the verses in Proverbs that I quoted, God justifies the wicked in Romans 4:5 and therefore He is an abomination to Himself in the verses in Proverbs. Please do the work of looking at these things as I don't care to do it for you in typing out every detail of how it works itself out.

5And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

7“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Sinners are declared righteous by God, because of Christ Alone! We are legally declared righteous by the imputed or credited righteousness of Christ given to us through Faith Alone! And it's on the basis of this righteousness that we are declared or found 'Justified' before the Holy Righteous Judge! And this righteousness is a 'FREE GIFT' from God to those who trust in Him. This is not earned, merited, to gain favor with God! There is no qualification we have to meet to get this offer! It's 'FREE', absolutely 'FREE". And this is Good News for the ungodly!

The Righteousness of God Through Faith​

21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Why is there no boasting? Because we cannot claim we did anything! Because we are justified through Faith Alone; which receives what saves; namely Christ Jesus; a gift from God himself!

2 Cor. 5:21For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

So when we are declared 'Justified' in His courtroom. It is because we are credited with the Perfect flawless righteousness of Christ.

Heidelberg Catechism 60. Q.
How are you righteous before God?



A.
Only by true faith in Jesus Christ. 1

Although my conscience accuses me

that I have grievously sinned

against all God's commandments,

have never kept any of them, 2

and am still inclined to all evil, 3

yet God, without any merit of my own, 4

out of mere grace, 5

imputes to me

the perfect satisfaction,

righteousness, and holiness of Christ. 6

He grants these to me

as if I had never had nor committed

any sin,

and as if I myself had accomplished

all the obedience

which Christ has rendered for me, 7

if only I accept this gift

with a believing heart. 8

​

• 
  
  ​
• 1. Rom 3:21-28; Gal 2:16; Eph 2:8, 9; Phil 3:8-11.
  ​
• 2. Rom 3:9, 10.
  ​
• 3. Rom 7:23.
  ​
• 4. Deut 9:6; Ezek 36:22; Tit 3:4, 5.
  ​
• 5. Rom 3:24; Eph 2:8.
  ​
• 6. Rom 4:3-5; 2 Cor 5:17-19; 1 Jn 2:1, 2.
  ​
• 7. Rom 4:24, 25; 2 Cor 5:21.
  ​
• 8. Jn 3:18; Acts 16:30, 31; Rom 3:22​

​

 

[Kiterius]

Are you feeling better, Benny?

I feel great all the time Marybeth.

 

[justbyfaith]

5And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

7“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Sinners are declared righteous by God, because of Christ Alone! We are legally declared righteous by the imputed or credited righteousness of Christ given to us through Faith Alone! And it's on the basis of this righteousness that we are declared or found 'Justified' before the Holy Righteous Judge! And this righteousness is a 'FREE GIFT' from God to those who trust in Him. This is not earned, merited, to gain favor with God! There is no qualification we have to meet to get this offer! It's 'FREE', absolutely 'FREE". And this is Good News for the ungodly!

The Righteousness of God Through Faith​

21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Why is there no boasting? Because we cannot claim we did anything! Because we are justified through Faith Alone; which receives what saves; namely Christ Jesus; a gift from God himself!

2 Cor. 5:21For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

So when we are declared 'Justified' in His courtroom. It is because we are credited with the Perfect flawless righteousness of Christ.

Heidelberg Catechism 60. Q.
How are you righteous before God?



A.
Only by true faith in Jesus Christ. 1

Although my conscience accuses me

that I have grievously sinned

against all God's commandments,

have never kept any of them, 2

and am still inclined to all evil, 3

yet God, without any merit of my own, 4

out of mere grace, 5

imputes to me

the perfect satisfaction,

righteousness, and holiness of Christ. 6

He grants these to me

as if I had never had nor committed

any sin,

and as if I myself had accomplished

all the obedience

which Christ has rendered for me, 7

if only I accept this gift

with a believing heart. 8

​

• 
  
• 1. Rom 3:21-28; Gal 2:16; Eph 2:8, 9; Phil 3:8-11.​
• 2. Rom 3:9, 10.​
• 3. Rom 7:23.​
• 4. Deut 9:6; Ezek 36:22; Tit 3:4, 5.​
• 5. Rom 3:24; Eph 2:8.​
• 6. Rom 4:3-5; 2 Cor 5:17-19; 1 Jn 2:1, 2.​
• 7. Rom 4:24, 25; 2 Cor 5:21.​
• 8. Jn 3:18; Acts 16:30, 31; Rom 3:22​

​

All of that is concerning justification.

Do you want to press into sanctification, or are you content to be justified only?

1 John 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Romans 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Matthew 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

If you are content to be justified only, and do not desire to be sanctified also, then something may be wrong with your heart, and it may even be questioned as to whether you are justified.

2 Corinthians 5:17, Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

When a man comes to Christ and is truly justified before Him, a change is wrought in his heart (Ezekiel 36:25-27). He goes from desiring sinful things to hating the same; and from hating righteous things to loving the same.

 

[ladodgers6]

All of that is concerning justification.

Do you want to press into sanctification, or are you content to be justified only?

Not so fast. You said, that I was telling you that God is an abomination. And we were discussing Faith & Repentance in relation to Justification. You said that Repentance comes before Justification. I said that Faith comes before Justification. Then you agree, I'm guessing, that Justification does come before Repentance. This is correct?

 

[ladodgers6]

All of that is concerning justification.

Do you want to press into sanctification, or are you content to be justified only?

Calvary Chapel, yea, I remember attending one a long time ago. Is Calvary Chapel Pentecostal? I remember that it was, I could be wrong. Correct me, please.

Anyway, back to your question. If one does not understand how they are justified before a Holy God, or more specifically asking, How is a sinner able to stand before a HOLY GOD?

-Can a man be saved by his/hers own goodness? If, so how good must that goodness be?
-Does God accept anything less than perfection?
-Is justification by the finished work of Christ Alone, or is it a combination of the work of Christ and the work of the sinner?

If we do not understand Justification, how can we understand how we are sanctified? Getting the Gospel right is key!

Am I denying repentance, or good works of the believer? I will explain sanctification once we are finished with Justification, if that is okay with you?

Hope this helps???

 

[justbyfaith]

Calvary Chapel, yea, I remember attending one a long time ago. Is Calvary Chapel Pentecostal? I remember that it was, I could be wrong. Correct me, please.

Anyway, back to your question. If one does not understand how they are justified before a Holy God, or more specifically asking, How is a sinner able to stand before a HOLY GOD?

-Can a man be saved by his/hers own goodness? If, so how good must that goodness be?

A man absolutely cannot be saved by his own goodness.

-Does God accept anything less than perfection?

God accepts only His perfection as it is applied to us through the substitutionary atonement of Jesus dying on the Cross in our place; His perfect life being applied to us through His shed blood: and our sins being applied to Him as He took the penalty for our sins.

-Is justification by the finished work of Christ Alone, or is it a combination of the work of Christ and the work of the sinner?

This is where I may actually be confused, and maybe you can help me. For I am thinking of Romans 8:12-13 while I also believe that justification is by the finished work of Christ alone.

In Romans 8:12-13 it seems that my spiritual life or death depends on whether I walk according to the Spirit or according to the flesh. If I live according to the flesh then spiritual death is a possibility; but if I walk according to the Spirit I will live.

This may be different than the issue of justification; for justification has to do with my right standing before God. These verses have more to do with whether I am spiritually alive or dead. Of course, if I am spiritually dead I do not find any grounds for being justified before God. So it appears to me from these verses that continued justification depends on my obedience to a certain extent; while initial justification, which provides to us the Holy Spirit, is based on faith/asking alone (Luke 11:13). (And He also gives the Holy Spirit to them that obey Him--Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

If we do not understand Justification, how can we understand how we are sanctified? Getting the Gospel right is key!

Am I denying repentance, or good works of the believer? I will explain sanctification once we are finished with Justification, if that is okay with you?

Hope this helps???

It also appears to me that the scripture declares that the foundation of our faith is obedience to the words of Christ (Matthew 7:21-27, Luke 6:46-49, John 7:17).

 

[justbyfaith]

Calvary Chapel doesn't deny the gifts. Chuck Smith, the first teacher of Calvary Chapel, wrote a book entitled Charisma vs. Charismania that defined how the movement sees things. Tongues are to be used publicly only in a believer's meeting (afterglow service) and only if there is interpretation. Other gifts are also open to be used in a believer's meeting. Other than that, for the most part the only gifts in operation are the teaching gift of the pastor and the musical gifts of the worship leaders (during the main services).

 

[justbyfaith]

Not so fast. You said, that I was telling you that God is an abomination. And we were discussing Faith & Repentance in relation to Justification. You said that Repentance comes before Justification. I said that Faith comes before Justification. Then you agree, I'm guessing, that Justification does come before Repentance. This is correct?

Actually, I said to you that you were telling me that God is an abomination in His own sight. Based on the fact that all those who justify the wicked are an abomination to the LORD (Proverbs 17:15)

 

[justbyfaith]

Here is one of my responses in a different thread, so that you may better understand my position:

Works has nothing to do with either initial or ultimate salvation.

Salvation is completely by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Where do works come in?

If I am truly saved then I have received the gift of salvation through what Christ did for me on the Cross. This was such an amazing act of love that if I become the recipient of its work in my life, I also become eternally grateful to the Lord who gave up His life for me. I begin to love Him because He first loved me (1 John 4:19). (This is the psychological aspect).

Also, when Jesus died on the Cross He said to the Father, "Into thy hands I commend my Spirit." The Father received Jesus' Spirit and then 50 days after Jesus rose from the dead, on the day of Pentecost, he poured it out on the early church. Now the love of God is shed abroad in the heart of every true born again believer since the first day God poured out His Spirit (Romans 5:5). This love is not in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18); and it is the fulfilling of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4), being the result of the indwelling of the Holy Ghost in the heart of the born again believer. (This is the spiritual aspect).

These works of love are the outflow of real salvation; but they don't save us in the slightest, neither initially nor ultimately.

They are simply the evidence that we have really been saved.

If I plant a plant in the ground; it can never bear fruit unless the roots are firmly planted into the ground: but I can have the roots entrenched into the ground without the resulting fruit. The health of the plant is not dependent on the fruit that it bears, but it is dependent on whether its roots are firmly planted. The fruit is the evidence that the plant is firmly planted; it is the sign to us all that the plant is receiving nourishment from the ground. The health of the plant is dependent on the root not the fruit.

Now the root has to do with the message of the gospel, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. The root has to do with our faith in these facts; and how we are forgiven of every sin through these facts and our faith in them.

The fruit of the Spirit is primarily love; which manifests itself in the good works that we do, provided we are not doing them for the wrong reason, such as an attempt to earn "ultimate salvation" or some other such thing as that.

The works that we do must be based solely and completely on our love for Christ which comes as our thankfulness overflows over what He did for us so freely.