2 thess 2:3 "Falling Away"? is it Blasphemy

[Kevin Snow]

The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius.

You contradict yourself. Why does it say that Nero was the one here who destroyed the temple. Then you say "Nero is absent from the passage."

It is abundantly clear that Nero does not fulfill this word. But I'm not going to go through it all. Well I might but not in this post.

 

[seventysevens]

You know this is a lot easier than you are making it. The church is a body of believers. It isn't a "he". They are describing the thing exactly as it is. The "he" means it's a person. It's just that simple.

He is Holy Spirit , the Holy Spirit IS a person - Just that simple
The Third Person in the Holy Trinity

 

[Kevin Snow]

He is Holy Spirit , the Holy Spirit IS a person - Just that simple
The Third Person in the Holy Trinity

I'll give you that except for the fact that the Holy Spirit is NEVER "out of the way" or put "out of the way." This is actually prophecy of the time that the prince of the covenant is "cut off and shall have nothing." Only when he is out of the way will the man of lawlessness be revealed.

 

[jgr]

You contradict yourself. Why does it say that Nero was the one here who destroyed the temple. Then you say "Nero is absent from the passage."

It is abundantly clear that Nero does not fulfill this word. But I'm not going to go through it all. Well I might but not in this post.

Nero was in power when the first Jewish-Roman war, and the invasion of Jerusalem and Judea, began in 66 AD. His armies subsequently destroyed the temple.

You are correct; he was not antichrist.

 

[seventysevens]

I'll give you that except for the fact that the Holy Spirit is NEVER "out of the way" or put "out of the way." This is actually prophecy of the time that the prince of the covenant is "cut off and shall have nothing." Only when he is out of the way will the man of lawlessness be revealed.

If it helps you understand , consider a door guard that is guarding a door that can just step aside to allow someone with authorization to enter -- the Man of sin has been appointed to serve a purpose and when the Church is gone the Holy Spirit is still here , but has allowed the Man of sin to do what he is appointed to do , not interfering or restraining for it is the appointed time for the Man of sin to take the center stage spotlight to do what he is appointed to do

 

[Kevin Snow]

Nero was in power when the first Jewish-Roman war, and the invasion of Jerusalem and Judea, began in 66 AD. His armies subsequently destroyed the temple.

He was not antichrist.

Good. You are right. Now you are saying that this passage in Daniel itself does not refer to the antichrist. I get what you are saying.

But the passage is referring to the antichrist. Nero did not take away sacrifices as it says in the passage. The sacrifices are not only taken away but they are restored later. And this could not possibly happen when Nero overturned the entire temple.

This passage and the rest of the passages in Daniel about the morning and evening sacrifices being taken away are one. They are talking about the same event. Nero did not fulfill this passage.

 

[Kevin Snow]

If it helps you understand , consider a door guard that is guarding a door that can just step aside to allow someone with authorization to enter -- the Man of sin has been appointed to serve a purpose and when the Church is gone the Holy Spirit is still here , but has allowed the Man of sin to do what he is appointed to do , not interfering or restraining for it is the appointed time for the Man of sin to take the center stage spotlight to do what he is appointed to do

Convenient thinking but is not substantiated elsewhere in scripture. There is no where else in scripture that depicts the Holy Spirit himself leaving the church. You want to know that this is wrong? Guess what? The evening and morning sacrifices are RESTORED WHILE the antichrist is doing his 42 month desolation.

The Holy Spirit is NOT out of the way by any stretch of the imagination during this 42 month period but is actively working to restore the things that this enemy is destroying. But it clearly says that the prince of the covenant is killed right at this time. Hmm. Right when the prince of the covenant is "out of the way" the antichrist begins his 42 month ministry. That seems to match the description of scripture EXACTLY.

 

[jgr]

Good. You are right. Now you are saying that this passage in Daniel itself does not refer to the antichrist. I get what you are saying.

But the passage is referring to the antichrist. Nero did not take away sacrifices as it says in the passage. The sacrifices are not only taken away but they are restored later. And this could not possibly happen when Nero overturned the entire temple.

This passage and the rest of the passages in Daniel about the morning and evening sacrifices being taken away are one. They are talking about the same event. Nero did not fulfill this passage.

Messiah the Prince's final perfect sacrifice of Himself caused all other "sacrifice and oblation to cease" (Daniel 9:27).

 

[seventysevens]

Convenient thinking but is not substantiated elsewhere in scripture. There is no where else in scripture that depicts the Holy Spirit himself leaving the church. You want to know that this is wrong? Guess what? The evening and morning sacrifices are RESTORED WHILE the antichrist is doing his 42 month desolation.

The Holy Spirit is NOT out of the way by any stretch of the imagination during this 42 month period but is actively working to restore the things that this enemy is destroying. But it clearly says that the prince of the covenant is killed right at this time. Hmm. Right when the prince of the covenant is "out of the way" the antichrist begins his 42 month ministry. That seems to match the description of scripture EXACTLY.

You did not understand , The Holy Spirit is not leaving the Church , the Church left the planet and are in the presence of Jesus , when Jesus was on earth people were born again without the Holy Spirit because Jesus was with them -

Do you remember that the reason the Jesus sent the comforter/Holy Spirit was only because Jesus was leaving the earth and said that he would never leave us comfortless and would send the Comforter to take the place of Jesus in the absence of Jesus?
When the Church is gone they are in the presence of Jesus and would not require the Holy Spirit because they are with Jesus for eternity and the Holy Spirit can remain to be here for those who accept Jesus during the GT

 

[Kevin Snow]

Messiah the Prince's final perfect sacrifice of Himself caused all other "sacrifice and oblation to cease" (Daniel 9:27).

WHAT?!

Now I know you have no understanding of these things.

If the evening and morning sacrifices are to be restored in the first place, why would his sacrifice stop them? This is inherent contradiction. Hypocrisy even.

 

[jgr]

WHAT?!

Now I know you have no understanding of these things.

If the evening and morning sacrifices are to be restored in the first place, why would his sacrifice stop them? This is inherent contradiction. Hypocrisy even.

Where in Daniel 9 are sacrifices restored?

 

[Kevin Snow]

You did not understand , The Holy Spirit is not leaving the Church , the Church left the planet and are in the presence of Jesus , when Jesus was on earth people were born again without the Holy Spirit because Jesus was with them - remember that the reason the Jesus sent the comforter/Holy Spirit was only because Jesus was leaving the earth and said that he would never leave us comfortless and would send the Comforter to take the place of Jesus in the absence of Jesus?
When the Church is gone they are in the presence of Jesus and would not require the Holy Spirit because they are with Jesus for eternity and the Holy Spirit can remain to be here for those who accept Jesus during the GT

The rapture does not happen during his 7 year desolation period. The church will still be here until that entire period ends.

So...what are you saying here? How is the Holy Spirit ever "out of the way"?

 

[Kevin Snow]

Where in Daniel 9 are sacrifices restored?

They are restored in after the first half of the week. That is where. But this is not described in Daniel 9 it's described in Daniel 8. The vision of the evenings and mornings is true.

 

[seventysevens]

The rapture does not happen during his 7 year desolation period. The church will still be here until that entire period ends.

So...what are you saying here? How is the Holy Spirit ever "out of the way"?

Church rapture before the man of sin is in his role , Church does not go through the GT , the GT is for the unrepentant people who refuse to repent - Not for the born again believers

"out of the way" -simple have you ever been in a crowd of people and someone is coming through the crowd and says "get out of the way ! ", you move aside and out of the way , it does not mean you are no longer there , just allowing someone through

 

[Kevin Snow]

Church rapture before the man of sin is in his role , Church does not go through the GT , the GT is for the unrepentant people who refuse to repent - Not for the born again believers

"out of the way" -simple have you ever been in a crowd of people and someone is coming through the crowd and says "get out of the way ! ", you move aside and out of the way , it does not mean you are no longer there , just allowing someone through

Ok you are obviously missing the substance in the whole counsel of God and simplifying your understanding of this one word without having the full picture as one thing. This is your mistake.

You won't be able to see that this refers to what I'm pointing out until you see it as I see it: the whole thing. But I can't reveal the whole thing to you now so we must part ways. I've revealed much however, you would do well to consider and look into what I've pointed out.

But as for the rapture. The rapture only keeps the saints from receiving the bowls of God's wrath. The bowls of God's wrath does not happen until after the 7 year covenant of the antichrist. The rapture happens directly after the 7 year covenant of the antichrist and before the pouring out of the bowls of God's wrath.

 

[jgr]

They are restored in after the first half of the week. That is where. But this is not described in Daniel 9 it's described in Daniel 8. The vision of the evenings and mornings is true.

Did not Messiah's sacrifice end all other sacrifice forever?

Hebrews 7:27
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Hebrews 9:26
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hebrews 10:12
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

 

[Kevin Snow]

Did not Messiah's sacrifice end all other sacrifice forever?

Hebrews 7:27
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Hebrews 9:26
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hebrews 10:12
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

You misunderstand the difference. Christ put an end to sacrifices for sin but the evening and morning sacrifices are a perpetual statue to the Lord for Israel and are to be done until his return. This is what will be restored.

 

[seventysevens]

Ok you are obviously missing the substance in the whole counsel of God and simplifying your understanding of this one word without having the full picture as one thing. This is your mistake.

You won't be able to see that this refers to what I'm pointing out until you see it as I see it: the whole thing. But I can't reveal the whole thing to you now so we must part ways. I've revealed much however, you would do well to consider and look into what I've pointed out.

But as for the rapture. The rapture only keeps the saints from receiving the bowls of God's wrath. The bowls of God's wrath does not happen until after the 7 year covenant of the antichrist. The rapture happens directly after the 7 year covenant of the antichrist and before the pouring out of the bowls of God's wrath.

You really do not see what the purpose of the Man of sin is being sent by God , so you are not getting the whole counsel of God , , you simply do not understand what the chapter is speaking about , the entire chapter is about the Man of sin /strong delusion , leaving out the context is where you have gone wrong

 

[Kevin Snow]

You really do not see what the purpose of the Man of sin is being sent by God , so you are not getting the whole counsel of God , , you simply do not understand what the chapter is speaking about , the entire chapter is about the Man of sin /strong delusion , leaving out the context is where you have gone wrong

My context is the earth and all the word of God. Not the chapter. You have to see the whole thing as one. For God has said, "Yahweh is one."

 

[jgr]

You misunderstand the difference. Christ put an end to sacrifices for sin but the evening and morning sacrifices are a perpetual statue to the Lord for Israel and are to be done until his return. This is what will be restored.

So the writer of Hebrews is describing the fulfillment, in Christ, of the cessation of the sacrifices to which Daniel refers in Daniel 9:27.