What think ye of Ezekiel's Temple?

[gomerian]

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Jesus never ever negated the Law, BABerean2.
Negation of the Law is iniquity and Antinomianism.
You cannot drag Jesus down to your level.

What you think on the subject, if it means that you're blaspheming Jesus, you should try very hard to keep to yourself.

 

[Davy]

I see.

You're saying pronouns in grammer don't matter nor lend understanding to context. Is that correct?

No, I'm saying the way you're trying to show the use of articles is actually to DISCONNECT from the context. That's what your examples are, of 'this' or 'that' in conjunction with the word generation by itself separated from the Matthew 24 context.

 

[Davy]

you expecting me to do a song and dance is equivalent to me expecting you to provide support for your claims instead of just saying brainwashed? sure.....ok davy......

Whole lotta song and dance on forums like these, mostly from denominational organization systems of men, i.e., the traditions of men our Lord Jesus warned against. Even many with 'non-denominational' in their profile are still adhering to the system's traditions. Brainwashing.

It means exactly what it says, from generation to generation: from grandfather's generation, so his son's generation, to his grandson's generation, and so on and so forth.

Yeah it does mean exactly what it says. The verse is using the word generation pointing to time, and it's not pointing to a specific people.

Luke 1:50
50 And His mercy is on them that fear Him from generation to generation.
KJV

Does that point to a specific person anywhere in that? NO! It's for ANY and ALL who fear God, from generation to generation. It is not about a specific people. It's about TIME, from era to era.

 

[claninja]

Jesus never says anything about the Law being faulty, either.

I agreed with you that Jesus never said the new covenant was superior to the old covenant. Did you read my post #538? In which i said:

"You are right, Jesus never explicitly stated that the covenant of the law was inferior to the new covenant. He only states that he was making a new covenant by his blood

And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.
Luke 22:20 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 22:20&version=ESV"


Do you disagree with the author of hebrews?

Hebrews 8:6-7
But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

 

[ebedmelech]

QUOTE="gomerian, post: 72883808, member: 409281"]QUOTE="ebedmelech, post: 72880688, member: 311061"]
saints have to understand the OT prophets correctly as Paul did
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QUOTE="gomerian, post: 72881015, member: 409281"]
Seriously? Book, Chapter, and Verse, please.
[/QUOTE
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QUOTE="ebedmelech, post: 72883640, member: 311061"]
Romans 9, where Paul interprets prophesies of Hosea and Isaiah.

Not to mention Jesus quoting the prophets!

The consider what Paul said of himself at Ephesians 3:1-13.
[/QUOTE
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Then what do you do with Hosea 2:11-13 thru Hosea 2:14-16 thru Hosea 2:16-17 ? And what on earth happens to Isaiah 11:12-13 ?

You need to reconcile what says with what the Prophets said before him, not the other way around.

How did Jesus quoting the prophets enter the discussion ? Jesus is both proven prophet and God, and even He says John 5:31-32. Circular reasoning doesn't work any better than self-promotion or ripping verses out of context.[/QUOTE



The verses you put forward will be fulfilled, literally, by genetic Israel and Judah, according to my verses.

As to age, what does that have to do with anything? Do I need any other teacher besides Jesus? What Jesus says is a stand-alone, no other can ride in the same boat.

If you think they will be literally fulfilled you'll need a time machine.

As for age...that's not what I meant...it went to how long have you been a Christian...but nevermind.

 

[claninja]

Yeah it does mean exactly what it says. The verse is using the word generation pointing to time, and it's not pointing to a specific people.

Luke 1:50
50 And His mercy is on them that fear Him from generation to generation.
KJV

We agree then, that this verse is about anyone from any generation, that if they fear the Lord, He will have mercy on them. This is not about a specific generation or specific person, but to anyone throughout history who fears the one true God.

Does that point to a specific person anywhere in that? NO!

I agree. It points to anyone in any generation that fears the Lord.

It is not about a specific people.

I agree. it points to anyone in any generation that fears the Lord.

It's about TIME, from era to era.

generation to generation occurs through time because we are talking about multiple generations.
However, In the olivet Discourse Jesus is not talking about generations to generations. He is talking about 1 specific generation that would see 'wars, pestilence, persecution, earthquakes, famine, false messiahs, and the temple destruction. He tells the discples "you" will hear of wars. He tells the disciples "you" will be persecuted. He tells the disciples "you" are not to follow false messiahs. He tells the disciples when "you" see the AOD/Jerusalem surrounded by armies. He tells the disciples, when "you" see all these things, know he is near.

One must completely ignore all the "you" Jesus says to the disciples, and the historical fulfillment of this prophecy, as the disciples' generation did live through wars, pestilence, persecution, famine, earthquakes, false messiahs, and the temple destruction.

 

[ebedmelech]

No, I'm saying the way you're trying to show the use of articles is actually to DISCONNECT from the context. That's what your examples are, of 'this' or 'that' in conjunction with the word generation by itself separated from the Matthew 24 context.

Ok. Keep looking for it.

 

[BABerean2]

Jesus never ever negated the Law, BABerean2.
Negation of the Law is iniquity and Antinomianism.
You cannot drag Jesus down to that level.

What you think on the subject, if it means that you're blaspheming Jesus, you should try very hard to keep to yourself.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.



.

 

[gomerian]

If you think they will be literally fulfilled you'll need a time machine.

"her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts"

Are you seriously thinking this is about you?

 

[gomerian]

.

It's up to you to prove that Jesus called the Law inferior or faulty or finished.

You have entirely failed, so far, BABerean2. So... are you learning anything yet?

 

[gomerian]

Do you disagree with the author of hebrews?

Hebrews 8:6-7
But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

Does Jesus say anything like that?

 

[BABerean2]

It's up to you to prove that Jesus called the Law inferior or faulty or finished.

You have entirely failed, so far, BABerean2. So... are you learning anything yet?

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I have learned that the doctrine of the Judaisers works by ignoring the passage above and "the ministry of death engraved on stone" in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and the Paul's word about the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant in Galatians 3:16-29, and the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31, and the "change in the law" in Hebrews 7:12, and the New Covenant making the Old Covenant "obsolete" Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:18-24.

However, what has been more valuable is that others here watching our interaction have also seen what is necessary to make the doctrine of the Judaisers work.
You have played an important role in that effort.

.

 

[gomerian]

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I have learned that the doctrine of the Judaisers works by ignoring the passage above and "the ministry of death engraved on stone" in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and the Paul's word about the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant in Galatians 3:16-29, and the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31, and the "change in the law" in Hebrews 7:12, and the New Covenant making the Old Covenant "obsolete" Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:18-24.

However, what has been more valuable is that others here watching our interaction have also seen what is necessary to make the doctrine of the Judaisers work.
You have played an important role in that effort.
.

What your finite human brain tells you is true, is that the people you're talking about believe what you think they believe. Your finite human brain is again mistaken, regarding me. Thou shalt not bear false witness, BeABereanToo. This makes 4 times now that you've done so. I'm not the only one who is holding this against you.

That Commandment contained in the Law: "Thou shalt not commit adultery"... Jesus is not revoking it, but strengthening it. What does that say about your 'ministry of death' theory? Since you imply that you yourself are not dismissing that statement you've quoted in red, you have created for yourself a stumblingblock. The meaning of stumblingblock is trap.

Therefore, Paul must have meant something other than what you're saying, since Paul is being specifically defended on this forum which calls itself by the title of Jesus. You must look around for some other thing written on stone, which you must cast aside.


Oh... and, I have no idea what you're labeling Judaisers. Judaism is Torah/Talmud, and it has been since Jesus mentions those who follow the doctrines of men. The Jewish Encyclopedia tells us that the Pharisees are today's Rabbis. I am pleased to inform you that I don't follow the Pharisees of either today or yesterday. But if you were clumsily attempting to apply that label to me... well, that makes your false witnessings against me 5 in number.

____
I do agree with you on one thing, though: our interactions have been informative, to both sides of the board, have they not? So if you thought your 'Pin The Label On The Jesus Freak' Game was going to work out... stumblingblock. And all I have to do is be The Jesus Freak.

 

[BABerean2]

Oh... and, I have no idea what you're labeling Judaisers. Judaism is Torah/Talmud, and it has been since Jesus mentions those who follow the doctrines of men. The Jewish Encyclopedia tells us that the Pharisees are today's Rabbis. I am pleased to inform you that I don't follow the Pharisees of either today or yesterday. But if you were clumsily attempting to apply that label to me... well, that makes your false witnessings against me 5 in number.

Act 15:5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."


Act 15:7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
Act 15:8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,
Act 15:9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(Peter could not have been talking about circumcision here, since it was something they did bear.)


Act 15:24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"—to whom we gave no such commandment—

.

 

[claninja]

Does Jesus say anything like that?

Don't put new wine into old wine skins

Mark 2:22 And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. Instead, new wine is poured into new wineskins.”b

 

[ebedmelech]

"her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts"

Are you seriously thinking this is about you?

I know it's not about me. Question is, have you carefully read Hosea? Read Hosea 1:1

 

[Davy]

We agree then, that this verse is about anyone from any generation, that if they fear the Lord, He will have mercy on them. This is not about a specific generation or specific person, but to anyone throughout history who fears the one true God.

Which of course involves the word 'generation' used in the TIME sense, since it can apply to 'any' generation period; so there's your example from God's Word you asked me to provide. That reveals the way Jesus used the idea can... apply to a specific generation era of time, which is how He used it in context with the signs of the end of the world He was giving there in Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

 

[claninja]

Which of course involves the word 'generation' used in the TIME sense, since it can apply to 'any' generation period;

Because it says generation TO generation. If Mary had said ‘this generation’ instead of generation TO generation in luke 1:50, we know Mary would be speaking of a specific generation: her own generation.

By your logic, it appears you believe generation TO generation means the same thing as ‘this generation’. It obviously does not.

 

[claninja]

apply to a specific generation era of time, which is how He used it in context with the signs of the end of the world He was giving there in Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

You are ignoring all the “you” Jesus states that would happen to the disciples throughout the discourse.

For some reason dispensationalists refuse to answer the following questions:

Did the disciples’ generation not hear of wars? Did the disciples’ generation not see false messiahs? Did the disciples’ generation not experience famine, pestilence ,earthquakes? Did the disciples generation not experience persecution? Did the disciples’ generation not experience Jerusalem and the temples destruction?

 

[usexpat97]

Back to the OP, I don't think Ezekiel's temple was really prophecy. They were instructions. They were instructions predicated on a prophecy, but they were instructions. The OT Prophets books frequently foretold of Israel being restored, which they were. Prophecy fulfilled. But then they were given instructions to rebuild the temple in such-and-such a way. They didn't. The book of Haggai was written, scolding them for not.

Failing to heed God's instructions does not constitute a "prophecy yet to be fulfilled". It constitutes sin.