I feel like the only Christian who believes in evolution.

[gzt]

The Fathers can be reconciled with these views and the Church, gasp, doesn't disagree with me.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Great, which on my list were opposed.

I didn't say any were opposed per say, however, guys like St Nikolai of Ziccha, St Nektarios of Aegina, St Theophan the recluse, etc all have writings on it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Not really, but thanks for playing.

no need for the snark, and if you actually had something, you probably would have quoted one by now.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Again, give me something to read.

gave you plenty of authors, go to town.

 

[gzt]

Anyway, we've gone over these grounds before, give me something to read. Thanks.

As for quoting, say, reading St Basil has parts that assume a literalism and parts that by no means require it (purely as an example). It seems hardly essential to reading him (or most others) to retain it - after all, it's not about the scientific question. Also, when reading the text in the ancient near eastern context, it's hardly about the scientific question at all, it's about God, the God of Israel, being the sole creator of the world as His temple with man as the priest of it, with no mythology or theomachy or whatever involved.

 

[gzt]

They don't address this question.

 

[ArmyMatt]

The Fathers can be reconciled with these views and the Church, gasp, doesn't disagree with me.

except for death being before the Fall. they are only reconciled when you ignore what they consistently say that contradicts what you already believe.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Anyway, we've gone over these grounds before, give me something to read. Thanks.

As for quoting, say, reading St Basil has parts that assume a literalism and parts that by no means require it (purely as an example). It seems hardly essential to reading him (or most others) to retain it - after all, it's not about the scientific question. Also, when reading the text in the ancient near eastern context, it's hardly about the scientific question at all, it's about God, the God of Israel, being the sole creator of the world as His temple with man as the priest of it, with no mythology or theomachy or whatever involved.

exactly what I said, ignore what you already disagree with.

 

[gzt]

roll eyes emoticon.

But, really, if anybody has addressed the specific question I have, I'm all ears. If not, I'm willing to see you give a wack, but I haven't made a full case here.

 

[ArmyMatt]

They don't address this question.

if you want to know who on your list may have had a theological opponent, I dunno. what I do know is that not every academic who wrestled with science and faith, came down in favor of evolution

 

[gzt]

I'm not interested in who on my list had a theological opponent, I'm interested in whether anybody answered the specific question I posed earlier. But in that context, I thought you were implying that not all the people I listed were in favor, which, apparently, you weren't, so, whatevs.

 

[ArmyMatt]

roll eyes emoticon.

But, really, if anybody has addressed the specific question I have, I'm all ears. If not, I'm willing to see you give a wack, but I haven't made a full case here.

you can roll your eyes all you want, but you framed your question (if I have the right question) where only uniformity will work. the Fall was a supernatural change to the entire cosmos. trying to demand natural evidence for a supernatural change won't work.

 

[gzt]

No, I did not. It does ask where uniformity breaks down, but this sort of handwaving is precisely what I wished to avoid. Please, give me somebody who has given this topic serious consideration.

 

[ArmyMatt]

No, I did not. It does ask where uniformity breaks down, but this sort of handwaving is precisely what I wished to avoid. Please, give me somebody who has given this topic serious consideration.

already did, those saints I mentioned. but to ask where uniformity breaks down, that would be the Fall.

 

[gzt]

Yes, but... Okay, like I said, point me at somebody making this argument rigorously.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yes, but... Okay, like I said, point me at somebody making this argument rigorously.

like I said, St Nektarios of Aegina, St Theophan the recluse, etc.

 

[gzt]

Fine. Which works?

 

[ArmyMatt]

St Nektarios has a work called Against Evolution, St Theophan writes against it all over his Daily Reader, and St Nikolai writes against it in his collection of Epistles.

and I am sure there is more

 

[Jackson Cooper]

Nobody said YEC is the normative belief. And Orthodoxy isn't a political party trying to recruit members. If we promised to give everyone a new BMW I'm sure we could sign up a lot of converts, but what's the point? We aren't selling a product that has to look a certain way to grab Starbucks-sucking college students. You report the truth as you believe it. The Father Seraphim book on Genesis and evolution is very compelling to me. Have you read it?

Is it about science or theology?

 

[Jackson Cooper]

this point is weird. you seem to say that if YEC is true, it makes atheists because there are far more people who believe the lie of the old earth and evolution.

but that reminds me of John 6. Christ lost a lot of followers because He insisted people eat His Flesh and drink His Blood.

YEC creates atheists because it makes people think Christianity can be scientifically disproven. Want to disprove Christianity? Prove the Earth is old or that evolution happened.