Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
owever, your claims are refuted soundly by 1 John 1:8,10 and 2:1.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
1 John 2:1 - My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

And, of course, the struggle of the Christian life according to Paul in Romans 6 and 7.

This is where your understanding of Scripture utterly fails.

lol

And by not understanding these crucial verses, you don't understand the gospel and could slide down to the pit. I've shown you the truth of these verses, thus you are on your own.

No, I'm not "on my own". I have God's Word and the Holy Spirit. Your posts have been quite clear as to how much you don't understand Scripture.

In fact, your response "fellowship?" said it all. Again, you have no clue about spirituality.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You may pray verse 5 daily, but you won't receive. You've said it yourself you don't expect God to speak to you. Thus you are like verse 6. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.

This is just pathetic. God guides in many ways. But "direct communication" isn't one of them. And from what your posts indicate, what you call "direct communication" is no doubt part of "doctrine of demons".

1 Tim 6:3 - If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,

By your claim that salvation can be lost PROVES that your views do not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ in John 10:28. And many other verses that you do not believe or understand.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I've asked God what HE means in His word, not what anyone else says it means, and He tells me, and, yes, He explains. This is where you and I differ. You believe what YOU want it to say with a very carnal, fallible understanding.

OK, let's test this theory of yours.

Explain to me what Jesus was teaching in John 10:28 by the sentence "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish."

I went to the Source, not thinking I'm better than the Source and His apostles, who wrote down His words.

Well, you don't even believe the Source, so what are you talking about?

But I'm interested in your explanation of John 10:28.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
So, when does a person have the indwelling holy Spirit?

Now? When we truly repent of all sin.

First, please quote the verse that teaches this.

Second, is this a one time event in one's life, or does it need to be repeated?

That means turn away from all sin. Have you, or do you wallow in your sin?

Typical nonsense. Seems you only have 2 positions, and both are the extremes.

1 John 1:8 teaches that no one turns away from all sin. Which is WHY John then wrote v.9, which is the way to be cleansed for fellowship. You know, the word you don't understand.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Nope.


Nope. Please study these verses on the basis of salvation/eternal life.

Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Now, how many verses that that there is more than believing in salvation? None.


This just fails comprehension of James 2:19. What they believe isn't in Christ as Savior who died for them (because He didn't), but that they believe (know) that God is One. They tremble because they know they are under His judgment for their rebellion.


There are NO verses that say we must follow Jesus to be saved, or to have eternal life.

Please review the 24 verses i just shared.


So, which verse says what you opine? None.

If your opinion was true, then Jesus wasn't telling the truth in John 10:28.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

You still must follow Jesus and do what He says. You are merely making Jesus your Savior, but not your Lord.

Hebrews 10:26-31

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[1stcenturylady]

1. Eph 5:18 be filled with the Spirit
2. Gal 5:16 walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh
3. walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh stop grieving the Spirit, by which you are sealed for the day of redemption
4. 1 Thess 5:19 stop quenching the Spirit.

Ephesians 5:18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,

Galatians 5:16 walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh

Ephesians 4:30
25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give g]">[g]place to the devil. 28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. 29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary h]">[h]edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

1 Thessalonians 4:30
14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.

16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.

23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.

Galatians 5:9 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[1stcenturylady]

No, what's sad is anyone who makes the claim that God communicates with them directly.

Boy does that cover a whole host of false doctrines. Anyone can claim anything. Only those claims that are clearly stated in Scripture is what counts.

As I said, you DON'T BELIEVE these gifts exist.

 

[1stcenturylady]

your claims are refuted soundly by 1 John 1:8,10 and 2:1.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

You forgot verse 6. 1 John 1:6, 8, and 10 are all BEFORE Christ who takes away our sin, not just covers it while we keep committing them. 6, 8, and 10 are those who walk in darkness and still have no truth in them.

1 John 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

Verse 7 is a Christian, not 6, 8 or 10. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

This is why 1 John 3:5-9 is also truth. Those who are in darkness and keep sinning are of the devil. Wise up.

5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[1stcenturylady]

This is just pathetic. God guides in many ways. But "direct communication" isn't one of them. And from what your posts indicate, what you call "direct communication" is no doubt part of "doctrine of demons".

1 Tim 6:3 - If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,

By your claim that salvation can be lost PROVES that your views do not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ in John 10:28. And many other verses that you do not believe or understand.

Direct communication IS one of them. In fact 4 of them.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Explain to me what Jesus was teaching in John 10:28 by the sentence "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish."

I've already told you, but hear it again.

CONTEXT:

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Two things to know if you've secured eternal life.

1. They can hear My voice. I can. You say you can't, and furthermore, that no one can.

2. and they follow Me. Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." They are lead by Christ's Spirit, and cannot sin. 1 John 3:9

 

[FreeGrace2]

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

Please point out that never perishing is conditioned upon following from this verse.

But we know that you can't, because there are no words to that effect.

Do you understand the difference between a description and a condition? Seems not.

You still must follow Jesus and do what He says. You are merely making Jesus your Savior, but not your Lord.

We know this just another false teaching, because of what Peter encouraged his audience to do:
1 pet 3:15 - but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

Peter wrote this to believers who were already saved, according his intro:
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen
2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

It's real clear that he considered his audience saved people.

Making or sanctifying Christ Lord is a command for believers, not for unbelievers in order to be saved.

Hebrews 10:26-31

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

OK, great. You've quoted a passage. From all you've previously posted, I know that you do not understand any of it.

To start with, v.26 is directly related to v.18. So you need to read that context as well.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
1. Eph 5:18 be filled with the Spirit
2. Gal 5:16 walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh
3. walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh stop grieving the Spirit, by which you are sealed for the day of redemption
4. 1 Thess 5:19 stop quenching the Spirit.

Ephesians 5:18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,

Galatians 5:16 walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh

Ephesians 4:30
25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give g]">[g]place to the devil. 28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. 29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary h]">[h]edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

1 Thessalonians 4:30
14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.

16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.

23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.

Galatians 5:9 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

You left out of my quote the part about explaining how these 3 commands relate to fellowship, and all you can do is re-quote them back to me, along with other verses.

It is quite clear that you still have no understanding of what fellowship even is, much less how a believer knows whether they are in or out of fellowship.

Sad.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
No, what's sad is anyone who makes the claim that God communicates with them directly.

Boy does that cover a whole host of false doctrines. Anyone can claim anything. Only those claims that are clearly stated in Scripture is what counts.

As I said, you DON'T BELIEVE these gifts exist.

What I don't believe is that "direct communication" with God is a gift.

But since you do, and you've claimed that you "go to the Source and Scripture", please share the verse that tells us that God gives a gift that is direct communication with Him.

because I don't believe your claims. I DO believe all that the Bible says, which is why I am asking for a verse that says what you claim here.

If the Bible says it, I certainly DO believe it.

But you don't even believe eternal security, even though I've shared THE MOST clearly stated verse in the Bible about eternal security, in John 10:28.

So don't tell me that you believe the Bible. You don't. Otherwise, you'd believe eternal security.

 

[1stcenturylady]

First, please quote the verse that teaches this.

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the a remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

But from what I can tell, you don't believe in turning away from any sin, let alone, all sin.

Second, is this a one time event in one's life, or does it need to be repeated?

It can be if you die soon after. But for most of us we will have various trials and temptations to face to test us. As we face each test, we can either pass or fail. If you pass one test, you are that much stronger when encountering the next test. But if you fail, it is because you have quenched the Spirit, and with each failure thereafter, you can become dull of hearing, and finally as Hebrews 10 says, "But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

We are in need of endurance: " 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise.

I know you don't believe a thing God says in His word except for the ones you pick and choose. You even have the nerve to apply them to yourself. Good luck with that if you have no power over sin.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You forgot verse 6. 1 John 1:6, 8, and 10 are all BEFORE Christ who takes away our sin, not just covers it while we keep committing them. 6, 8, and 10 are those who walk in darkness and still have no truth in them.

It's your Pollyanna view of Christianity that has led you quite astray from the truth.

Believers can be in darkness and "still have no truth in them", when they have been led astray by false teachers and demons.

1 Tim 4:1 - The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

1 John 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

Verse 7 is a Christian, not 6, 8 or 10.

The entire chapter is for believers. Did you count how many times John mentioned "fellowship" in ch 1? That's the key to the whole epistle.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

There it is, in black and white. IF is a conditional clause. And ONLY WHEN (IF) the believer "walks in the light" do they have fellowship.

This is why 1 John 3:5-9 is also truth.

Of course it's truth. But it doesn't mean what you think it means. It's about the FACT that our born again nature cannot sin.

Those who are in darkness and keep sinning are of the devil. Wise up.

Are you not aware that all sin is "of the devil", who is the original sinner? Wise up.

When any believer sins, they "are of the devil". And out of fellowship.

5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

The first set of red words refers to fellowship. And again, v.9 is about the FACT that our new nature cannot sin.

So, the ONLY TIME we cannot sin is when we are in fellowship, abiding in Him. But you are quite unaware of all this.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Direct communication IS one of them. In fact 4 of them.

I asked for specific verses that say what you claim. Which you can't.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Please point out that never perishing is conditioned upon following from this verse.

I kept it in context. Thats how.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Two things to know if you've secured eternal life.

I have already shared 24 verses about how to be saved and have eternal life. But you've ignored all of them.

1. They can hear My voice. I can. You say you can't, and furthermore, that no one can.[/QUOTE]
Jesus speaks through His word. Wise up. We hear Him when we study His word and "rightly divide the word of truth". 2 Tim 2:15

 

[1stcenturylady]

1 Tim 4:1 - The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Question: If these people have eternal security, will they be in heaven with me?

 

[1stcenturylady]

1. They can hear My voice. I can. You say you can't, and furthermore, that no one can.
Jesus speaks through His word. Wise up. We hear Him when we study His word and "rightly divide the word of truth". 2 Tim 2:15

Don't you know you can make the Word of God say anything you want it to? You are living proof of teaching that ungodliness can be saved. But, the Word of God must be read with rhemas from the Holy Spirit teaching us its truth.