Why doesn't God just tell us which denomination is right?

[A_Thinker]

Well, most of those did not call themselves "Christians" but the memory is very much expanded and kept alive as though the events of WWII were happening daily. The record of the first first church tells of men and women dragged into the streets and stoned for being Christains by the J....s and that has literally happened down through the centuries from others (not the J...s) although the method of execution changes. This happens to the Christians to date not the Jews, btw. But the Christians do not have a lobby to keep that in the news. Keeping it alive from 80 years ago is not necessary.

I am not only speaking of the events of WW2.

The Jewish religious hierarchy was responsible for suffering among the early Christians. Also, the Jewish community (as led by their religious leadership) was not accepting of Jewish converts to Christianity.

Unfortunately, christians returned this favor for centuries through pograms, persecutions, and expulsions.

Our forefathers were terrible to one another.

It is a miracle of God that some Jews are included within the body of Christ today ... whatever they choose to call themselves ...

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am not only speaking of the events of WW2.

The Jewish religious hierarchy was responsible for suffering among the early Christians. Also, the Jewish community (as led by their religious leadership) was not accepting of Jewish converts to Christianity.

Unfortunately, christians returned this favor for centuries through pograms, persecutions, and banishments.

I notice how you limited the murder of the Christians to the "Jewish" hierarchy. Interesting. And the Christians were out and out murdered, not merely "suffering" as you describe it. Being dragged from your home and stoned is not merely "suffering" as though they had trouble finding employment.

How do you know those who persecuted Jews were Christians? How come you don't say that the hierarchy led others into this limiting it to the leadership as you did for the Jew? And the actual events are somewhat limited in the history of the nations. Please list for me the actual dates and times of these events. Let's look at some reality here beyond the propaganda

We have been terrible to one another.
It is a miracle of God that some Jews are included within the body of Christ today ... whatever they choose to call themselves ...

Well, I do not think it a miracle at all since the vast majority of Christians in the first century were Jews. It is more a miracle that the Gentiles are part of the body of Christ. The Jews never shared anything of their "right religon" from God with anyone in the world. They kept all they knew to themselves. That those Jews went into the world sharing the good news is a miracle.

For the record, there are about 100 000 Christians killed every year because they are Christians. How many Jews are killed every year because they are Jews? It is a fair question.

 

[BobRyan]

Exodus 13:21
The Lord was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.

1. "Salvation is of the Jews" John 4
2. "to the Jew FIRST and also to the gentile" Romans 2
3. " what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God" Romans 3
4. ALL the saints in Hebrews 11 are Jews starting with Abraham

Where is the word "religion" in any of the above?

Taking the simplest example -- the debate over religions.

John 4
“Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

21 Jesus *said to her, ... 22 You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; we (Jews) worship what we (Jews) know, for salvation is of the Jews.

Now we can play this game all day long because we both know that every reader on this forum admits that this is a debate between two different religions - and Christ affirms the Jews in that debate.

Which means each time you ask that it be repeated everyone will see it "once again". Not sure how you think this is helping your point.

 

[A_Thinker]

For the record, there are about 100 000 Christians killed every year because they are Christians. How many Jews are killed every year because they are Jews? It is a fair question.

I believe that it is unquestionable that Christian persecution has outstripped Jewish persecution in our modern world. That this is true is more a result of Christianity being more widespread than Judaism in areas where Islam has dominance.

Efforts to stem anti-semitism have been much more successful than efforts against Christian persecution. Some of this success is due to a fairly stable peace between Jews and modern society ... and Jews keeping their distance from Muslim/Arab dominated areas.

Of the total number of Jews in the world today, 96% either live in the Americas, Europe, or Israel.

 

[A_Thinker]

The Jews never shared anything of their "right religon" from God with anyone in the world. They kept all they knew to themselves. That those Jews went into the world sharing the good news is a miracle.

The Jews were not instructed by God to spread the Jewish religion. God's purpose for the Jewish/Hebrew nation was different than that for Christianity.

 

[Traveling teacher]

cant hate the Jews and be a christian......

sad to say much of the historic persecution of the jews has come from quote christians
1492 - spanish inquisition
wwII - throughout europe and america

protestants cant blame catholics...because of germany and the anti semitism from
the protestant movement

america cant completely blame europe as we turned jews back from our country
in WWII and sent them back to europe to die in the consentration camps

although there were many christians who stood up for the Jews...bonnhoffer, cori tinboom.....

 

[Dorothy Mae]

cant hate the Jews and be a christian......

sad to say much of the historic persecution of the jews has come from quote christians
1492 - spanish inquisition
wwII - throughout europe and america

The Inquition was from the Catholics who murdered many, many Christians from the days of Constantine onward. I live in the land where the Catholics persecuted and killed many Christians and this went on for centuries. So those are the Catholics whose record is not one of being Christians as an organization and certainly never in Rome. So in Europe, the Christians were killed down through the centuries the Catholics had power. One cannot call nations "christian" same as calling Israel "Jewish."

protestants cant blame catholics...because of germany and the anti semitism from
the protestant movement

The Inquitision is blamed on the cathollics because the Catholics did it. To say otherwise is like saying some blame the bombing of Pearl Harbon on the Japanese. The Protestants never ran an inquisition. The Nazi persecuted the Jews although they did not start with them. They started with the handicapped and the terminally ill. Any one weak in society. Those in charge were occultists, not Christians. Martin Luther never did or say anything that supported this and what is more, he was 400 before. Hard to blame the man when what he wrote was so many centuries earlier although I know people like to try. The Nazi party based its deeds on the theory of evolution and were wanted to take the next step in the evolution of man. This is common knowledge in Germany. Evolution spawned the Nazi movement.

although there were many christians who stood up for the Jews...bonnhoffer, cori tinboom.....

Well, Bonoeffer stood up against the Nazis and the Ten Boom family hid Jews and helped them leave the country. True. Took a lot of courage and they lost everything for doing so.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Exodus 13:21
The Lord was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.

1. "Salvation is of the Jews" John 4
2. "to the Jew FIRST and also to the gentile" Romans 2
3. " what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God" Romans 3
4. ALL the saints in Hebrews 11 are Jews starting with Abraham



Taking the simplest example -- the debate over religions.

John 4
“Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

21 Jesus *said to her, ... 22 You (Samaritans) worship what you do not know; we (Jews) worship what we (Jews) know, for salvation is of the Jews.

Now we can play this game all day long because we both know that every reader on this forum admits that this is a debate between two different religions - and Christ affirms the Jews in that debate.

Which means each time you ask that it be repeated everyone will see it "once again". Not sure how you think this is helping your point.

OK, you do not seem to get what I am aiming at. No where in any of your quotes nor anything in the Bible from cover to cover, did God ever tell anyone that they got the right religion. No where. The word religion or even the concept does not appear above. That is because God is not interested in nor does He discuss religion with anyone he talks to either in the Bible or now. That is because God is interested in relationship with men, not religion. Jesus spoke above of the Jews worshipping what they KNOW. Jesus did not say "we Jews got the right religion." God seeks relationship with men. Religion is a system of performing rites and rituals. God wants relationship.

So God never tells a man he has the right religion becasue God is interested in right relationship with men. So you will not find God telling anyone to join a religion as the right religion because as a Father, He wants us to know Him. Religion mostly hinders that pursuit as it tells men what to do but never who to know.

This is why Judaism will not lead a man to God as it refuses to accept Jesus as the Annointed of God through whom we have forgiveness of sin, something necessary to have relationship with God. If a man just wants religious duties to perform to ease his mind, then any of them will do as that is the wrong pursuit.

 

[Traveling teacher]

The Inquition was from the Catholics who murdered many, many Christians from the days of Constantine onward. I live in the land where the Catholics persecuted and killed many Christians and this went on for centuries. So those are the Catholics whose record is not one of being Christians as an organization and certainly never in Rome. So in Europe, the Christians were killed down through the centuries the Catholics had power. One cannot call nations "christian" same as calling Israel "Jewish."
The Inquitision is blamed on the cathollics because the Catholics did it. To say otherwise is like saying some blame the bombing of Pearl Harbon on the Japanese. The Protestants never ran an inquisition. The Nazi persecuted the Jews although they did not start with them. They started with the handicapped and the terminally ill. Any one weak in society. Those in charge were occultists, not Christians. Martin Luther never did or say anything that supported this and what is more, he was 400 before. Hard to blame the man when what he wrote was so many centuries earlier although I know people like to try. The Nazi party based its deeds on the theory of evolution and were wanted to take the next step in the evolution of man. This is common knowledge in Germany. Evolution spawned the Nazi movement.
Well, Bonoeffer stood up against the Nazis and the Ten Boom family hid Jews and helped them leave the country. True. Took a lot of courage and they lost everything for doing so.

this is a totally diferent subject
as many lutherans and protestants will object or disconect or excuse the antisemitism in the roots of the protestant church started by martin luther

Martin Luther never did or say anything that supported this and what is more, he was 400 before.
\
you need to read martin luther antisemetic writings...
not good and not to be swept under the rug like it didnt effect the german people.....

as a protestant I am saying this because we as protestants tend to blame catholics for anti semitism when there is just as much blame on the hands of our protestant forefathers as well

 

[Dorothy Mae]

this is a totally diferent subject
as many lutherans and protestants will object or disconect or excuse the antisemitism in the roots of the protestant church started by martin luther

Yes, it is a different subject and many catholics and atheists will blame Luther for anti-semintism although none of it was seen in his lifetime or in the generations that followed outside of giving the banking business to the Jews, which benefited them in many ways. For 400 years the Jews lived in communities in Germany and Europe and if it was as you suggested, they would have left long before the 20th century.

Martin Luther never did or say anything that supported this and what is more, he was 400 before.
\
you need to read martin luther antisemetic writings...
not good and not to be swept under the rug like it didnt effect the german people.....

All he did was write. All the Germans did was read. Nothing else (besides banking) happened for 400 years and yet you blame Luther. You need to blame evolution which was the basis for the Nazi movement. Luther had nothing to do with it.

as a protestant I am saying this because we as protestants tend to blame catholics for anti semitism when there is just as much blame on the hands of our protestant forefathers as well

The protestants talked. The Catholics persecuted to death those who did not submit to their rule. The Nazis based out of evolutionary thinking actually did something. I think we need to see the difference.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe that it is unquestionable that Christian persecution has outstripped Jewish persecution in our modern world. That this is true is more a result of Christianity being more widespread than Judaism in areas where Islam has dominance.

Efforts to stem anti-semitism have been much more successful than efforts against Christian persecution. Some of this success is due to a fairly stable peace between Jews and modern society ... and Jews keeping their distance from Muslim/Arab dominated areas.

Of the total number of Jews in the world today, 96% either live in the Americas, Europe, or Israel.

True.

And fewer Jews than Christians also leads to more Christians being persecuted than Jews.

 

[BobRyan]

The Inquition was from the Catholics who murdered many, many Christians from the days of Constantine onward. I live in the land where the Catholics persecuted and killed many Christians and this went on for centuries. So those are the Catholics whose record is not one of being Christians as an organization and certainly never in Rome. So in Europe, the Christians were killed down through the centuries the Catholics had power. One cannot call nations "christian" same as calling Israel "Jewish."
The Inquitision is blamed on the cathollics because the Catholics did it. .

And even Pope Benedict admits to about 25 million killed by Catholics in what many Christians call "the dark ages"

 

[BobRyan]

cant hate the Jews and be a christian......
.

That is true

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Scripture is not concerned with denominations. it's concerned about the truth of God's Word and us following it.

'denominations', for the most part, come from those who have enamored themselves with their own philosophies, traditions, and emotions in creating divisions. differences in understanding actually don't play as big a role as people think.

 

[Traveling teacher]

i just returned from a trip in Germany...visited consentration camp...Docchou....

I love germany as my Grandad was German.....

but if you read history there is very few christian groups withuot blood on their hands at sometime in history from europe and america.....

catholics persecuted christians that broke off during the protestant movement and inquisition...
protestants persecuted other catholics and christian groups that broke off of the protestant movement...
ex. - the persecution of the separatists...pilgrims

however like I said many christians stood up for the jews during WWII and it cost their life...
read Bonnhofferhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer

He chose to return to Germany and stand up for the upressed
he died in a camp 4 weeks before the liberation......

 

[BobRyan]

Scripture is not concerned with denominations. it's concerned about the truth of God's Word and us following it. .

The various denominations strive to adopt the most accurate Bible-based doctrine ... the question is... which one accomplished it?

 

[A_Thinker]

The various denominations strive to adopt the most accurate Bible-based doctrine ... the question is... which one accomplished it?

As is eminently obvious, ... the answer to that depends upon who you ask ...

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

The various denominations strive to adopt the most accurate Bible-based doctrine ... the question is... which one accomplished it?

The OP question is why doesn't God give us the answer?

Scripture does not deal with such matters.

 

[BobRyan]

The OP question is why doesn't God give us the answer?

Scripture does not deal with such matters.

Scripture gives numerous examples of God doing that very thing.

===============================

Seems like it would help us out a lot if God told everybody, "The Calvinists are right" (Or whichever denomination).

So many false teachings would be disproven in an instant, everybody would know which Church best aligns with God & His word...

So why not?

Been there.. done that.

BTW I assume you do not mean that one denomination is saved and all others lost. Christ said in John 16 "I have many more things to tell you but you cannot bear them now" so then having less understanding of truth does not of itself make one lost. It is rejection of truth that does that.

I assume you mean "if God would come to Earth in the modern age and tell us " -- maybe in the form of some prophet?

Which of course groups like the Seventh-day Adventists claim He did that very thing.

And did that "solve the question" for "Everyone"?

No. We still have the divisions.

God told Noah that his religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told Moses and all Israel at Sinai that their religion was correct -- but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told John the baptizer that his religion was correct - but did all Israel listen?

Christ told His disciples that He was God the Son and that their religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

These supernatural events were indeed reported - but most people rejected that report.

Seventh-day Adventist will tell you of that same supernatural event within their own denomination - but that does not "settle it" for all who hear of it.
===================================================

Regarding the fact that the eschatology religion of Noah came direct from God - who tells Noah this is the right message you ask

When did God do that? Scripture please

Answer:
Genesis 6
13 Then God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth. 14 Make for yourself an ark of gopher wood; you shall make the ark with rooms, and shall cover it inside and out with pitch. 15 This is how you shall make it:... 18 But I will establish My covenant with you; ...22 Thus Noah did; according to all that God had commanded him, so he did.
Genesis 7
Then the Lord said to Noah, “Enter the ark, you and all your household, for you alone I have seen to be righteous before Me in this time. ... Noah did according to all that the Lord had commanded him.

2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Genesis 6 -- for 120 years - Noah was given time to build the ark and preach.

Heb 11
7 By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Scripture gives numerous examples of God doing that very thing.

the only thing scripture says is that we shouldn't be divisive.

there is no mention of denominations or which one is right.