Why doesn't God just tell us which denomination is right?

[Strong in Him]

No, he clearly did not. He did not mention religion at all. Salvation from the Jews meant from himself, not the religion.

True.
Salvation - reconciliation with God - did come from the Jews because Jesus, our Saviour, was Jewish.
His coming, ministry, death and resurrection was foretold by Jewish prophets. He chose Jews to be his 12 closest disciples, the early church was Jewish and even Paul preached first of all to the Jews.

Join the Jews today and you are joining a group from which God has taken the Kingdom AWAY. There is no salvation in judiams and God completely whipped out the religion practiced by Moses and Israel never to be restored.

No.
Jews can come to know Jesus as their Messiah and Saviour. They do not change into Christians when this happens, they are still Jewish by nationality. They are Messianic Jews - Jews who believe that their Messiah has already come, that Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled the law and the prophets.

Clearly Judaism has not been wiped out; there are millions of Jews.

So I really do not know what you think the true religion of Judiasm is. God has left Judiasm.

No he hasn't.

Judiasm has nothing to offer if a man wants to find God except the Messiah.

Jews believe in God, have the OT and are sincere about their faith.
They don't believe that Jesus, the Messiah, has already come. But God wants them to know this, and there are people and organisations who minister and witness among the Jews. Maybe he even wants you to be involved and tell these chosen people of God what they are missing?

Sorry but Judiasm fulfilled its chosen mission and it is over.

No, it really isn't.
It's attitudes like that - "God has abandoned you and chosen we Christians now instead" - that has caused so much hurt, hatred and war. I've read books by Jews who have discovered Jesus as the Messiah and Saviour, and they say that is why they do not use the term "Christian". There are too many memories of crusades and of people trying to get them to stop being what they are - Jewish - to become something else.

They are special same as any other group of people are special but they do not have the Spirit Of God dwelling in their midst as before.

Probably because no one has ever told them that they CAN have the Holy Spirit.
Ezekiel, Joel and others spoke of God putting his Spirit IN people - the men who received these prophesies were Jews. The Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost on Jews. Peter and Paul were among the group called Christians but they did not stop being Jewish. Christianity started out as a Jewish sect - our faith has Jewish roots and always will have.

 

[BobRyan]

Sorry I only have time to answer one bit. If you want, I can come back and answer your post properly. I have to go to work in 3 mintues.

God does not discuss religion and neither does Jesus. .

Read John 4 "you (Samaritans) worship what you do not know - WE (Jews) worship what we know, salvation is of the JEWs".

The point is clear Jesus entered into the "which religion is correct" debate with the Samaritan woman.

No, he clearly did not. He did not mention religion at all. .

Now see? What a wonderful contrast -- as clear as night and day between our positions.

very VERY easy for all readers to see it.

Here we have the text of what you call "not debating religion" and "not indicating which one is correct".

19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”

Then Jesus said -
22 You worship what you do not know; we (Jews) know what we (Jews) worship, for salvation is of the Jews.

I could not ask for a more stark - and clear contrast of our views. Thanks for your assist.

 

[BobRyan]

So I really do not know what you think the true religion of Judiasm is. .

Since you claim to make this remark in response to Christ's statement --

19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”

Then Jesus said -
22 You worship what you do not know; we (Jews) know what we (Jews) worship, for salvation is of the Jews.

I have to say I do not know how you can be confused on that point. (Though you are most certainly welcomed to it) -- I just appreciate having this illustration of the point I keep making that no matter what God says - there will be those who just "do not see it".

in the mean time --
I could not ask for a more stark - and clear contrast of our views. Thanks for your assist.

 

[NBB]

But if one person get that information would the others believe him or just stay with their beliefs?.
I go to a pentecostal church and is not perfect at all the pastor has some strong reactions sometimes and some people left the church because of that but i go to the church to seek God not the pastor.
I was filled with the Holy spirit there, i felt the glory of God one day if you can believe me in my house it was remarkable. I entered the holy place in church too. Incredible experience. I´m not saying all pentecostal churches are right in some you can see weird things now but i´m happy to belong to one.
I think what pentecostal churches are right is to seek the power of the Holy spirit. Needs to be a place with sound biblical teaching as well. But that doesn´t mean the other denominations are wrong.

 

[BobRyan]

But if one person get that information would the others believe him or just stay with their beliefs?.

Good point - notice the examples I give.

Been there.. done that.

BTW I assume you do not mean that one denomination is saved and all others lost. Christ said in John 16 "I have many more things to tell you but you cannot bear them now" so then having less understanding of truth does not of itself make one lost. It is rejection of truth that does that.

I assume you mean "if God would come to Earth in the modern age and tell us " (-- maybe in the form of some prophet?) which denomination had no doctrinal error -- and so all others by comparison had at least one doctrine to be corrected... wouldn't that be helpful?"

Which of course groups like the Seventh-day Adventists claim He did that very thing.

And did that "solve the question" for "Everyone"?

No. We still have the divisions.

God told Noah that his religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told Moses and all Israel at Sinai that their religion was correct -- but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told John the baptizer the Messiah he pointed to was the right one.

Christ told His disciples that He was God the Son and that their religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

These supernatural events were indeed reported - but most people rejected that report.

Seventh-day Adventist will tell you of that same supernatural event within their own denomination - but that does not "settle it" for all who hear of it.

I go to a pentecostal church and is not perfect at all the pastor has some strong reactions sometimes and some people left the church because of that but i go to the church to seek God not the pastor.
I was filled with the Holy spirit there, i felt the glory of God one day if you can believe me in my house it was remarkable. I entered the holy place in church too. Incredible experience. I´m not saying all pentecostal churches are right in some you can see weird things now but i´m happy to belong to one.
I think what pentecostal churches are right is to seek the power of the Holy spirit. Needs to be a place with sound biblical teaching as well. But that doesn´t mean the other denominations are wrong.

But in the OP the question specifically points out an example between Calvinist vs Arminian. So a good actual substantive doctrinal differences -- and there are in fact many of those examples to be had.

The question put to the group -- is woudn't it be nice to have God just point to one and say "that one has no doctrinal error... the others have a few places that need correction"

 

[NBB]

Speaking of calvinism i personally dislike it, i have autism, and had ocd (i think i am cured of ocd now) and tried to reason everything, and it was a torture, so i gave up trying to fit it in my life.

 

[A_Thinker]

The question put to the group -- is woudn't it be nice to have God just point to one and say "that one has no doctrinal error... the others have a few places that need correction"

Is it your position that He has done so ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

True.
Salvation - reconciliation with God - did come from the Jews because Jesus, our Saviour, was Jewish.
His coming, ministry, death and resurrection was foretold by Jewish prophets. He chose Jews to be his 12 closest disciples, the early church was Jewish and even Paul preached first of all to the Jews.

Yes, no one disputes this. The first Christians were all Jews. They saw no problem in being Christians and Jews. Paul was a Roman a Jew and a Christian, no conflict. Salvation DID come (past tense) from the Jews. No one questions this. It no longer does is where we disagree.

No.
Jews can come to know Jesus as their Messiah and Saviour. They do not change into Christians when this happens, they are still Jewish by nationality. They are Messianic Jews - Jews who believe that their Messiah has already come, that Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled the law and the prophets.

Clearly Judaism has not been wiped out; there are millions of Jews.

If a person becomes Jewish and does not know Jesus as the «anointed one» (Messiah/Christ) then Judaism will not save him. Therefore, there is no salvation in Judaism. Only in Christ. So my statement is correct. If a person knows Jesus as the Messiah/Christ, he can be saved whether he becomes Jewish or not. Salvation is in Christ, not Judaism.

I never said there are no Jews. I mean, I can read. It means the faith as given to Moses is no longer practiced. The temple, the dwelling place of God has been destroyed forever and will never return as the dwelling place of God on earth. The dwelling of God on earth is in vessels of clay.

No he hasn't.

Jesus said the Kingdom of God was (would be in his day) taken away from the Jews. You do not believe this? Or do you think God is still speaking to Jews to come to the Messiah? This is true. Would it trouble you to know that God is speaking to Muslims to do the same?

Jews believe in God, have the OT and are sincere about their faith.
They don't believe that Jesus, the Messiah, has already come. But God wants them to know this, and there are people and organisations who minister and witness among the Jews. Maybe he even wants you to be involved and tell these chosen people of God what they are missing?

He wants the Muslims to know this as well. And the pagans. And the Hindus. And the atheists. He wants them to know what they are missing now and will miss in Eternity. I see no difference. The law to the Jews first was the same as Jesus was sent first to the house of Israel. They are no longer first. That time is now over.

No, it really isn't.

This was you saying that the Jews still have a mission.
What mission do you think they have? What have they been doing to fulfill that in the last 2000 years? I am serious. What mission to you think they still have?

It's attitudes like that - "God has abandoned you and chosen we Christians now instead" - that has caused so much hurt, hatred and war. I've read books by Jews who have discovered Jesus as the Messiah and Saviour, and they say that is why they do not use the term "Christian". There are too many memories of crusades and of people trying to get them to stop being what they are - Jewish - to become something else.

I never said that and you ought to not say untruths about what other said. And what war was started by the above attitude? I know something of history and I cannot think of a single war started because of this attitude. Also do not see any hatred coming out of this, frankly speaking. In case you are misinformed, the crusades were as a result of the Muslim Turks invading Jerusalem and slaughtering the Christians who lived there. For 300 years before the Christians, Jews and Muslims lived in peace together. The intent was not to convert the Jews.

Hate to tell you this but the first Christians were pretty much all Jews for a time. They called themselves Christians and Jews and whatever else they were. No problem. This repugnance to be called “Christians” is something that individual Jews who have found Jesus need to shed. They need to forgive whatever offenses happened to them in the past same as the Christians, Jewish and Gentile, need to forgive the Jews for persecuting and killing so many Christians (Jewish Christians) in those early decades. The church lost James to the Jews’ actions along with Stephen.

Now I know that if one dares to say the truth as presented in the Bible, one is called very nasty names, but that is the record of history. The church (Jewish Christians who saw no conflict with being both) was by killed by the hundreds if not thousands at the hands of the Jews who hated them. It is the truth and that is why I say it, not because I hate them. The Jews who recoil at being called Christians ought to consider that their ancestors murdered the Christians. Might help them forgive the Christians who try to get them to become Christians.

I find it odd that you ask me if I want to be a part of telling the Jews what they are missing and then blame people who get them to stop being what they are- Jewish to become something else like Christian. I guess it is OK, if they are told they don’t have to use the odious term but something else. Semantics. “Messianic Jews” is not in the Bible. I don't have a problem with it but the repugnance to be called Christ-ian is rather strange.

Probably because no one has ever told them that they CAN have the Holy Spirit.

They will not experience the Holy Spirit unless they accept Jesus as the Messiah/Christ.

Ezekiel, Joel and others spoke of God putting his Spirit IN people - the men who received these prophesies were Jews. The Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost on Jews. Peter and Paul were among the group called Christians but they did not stop being Jewish. Christianity started out as a Jewish sect - our faith has Jewish roots and always will have.

God chose who He put His spirit in. They did not seem to ask for it. And it was not available for the asking. And yes, we know all of those guys were Jews. You do not need to say that as if I hate Jews. Jesus was a Jew and you do not need to keep repeating that they were all Jews and the Bible was written by Jews. That does not save a single one of them today. That is my point.

 

[Strong in Him]

It no longer does is where we disagree.

No, I never stated that salvation can be found today through Judaism.
Salvation is through Christ alone. Jesus saves, not Jesus + anything else.

If a person becomes Jewish and does not know Jesus as the «anointed one» (Messiah/Christ) then Judaism will not save him. Therefore, there is no salvation in Judaism.

Never said there was.

I never said there are no Jews. I mean, I can read. It means the faith as given to Moses is no longer practiced.

You said that the religion had been wiped out, never to be restored. Obviously it hasn't been.
What I'm sure you meant was that the sacrificial system given to Moses, by which they received forgiveness through the blood of slaughtered animals, has ended. That's perfectly true - even Jews don't practice that any more - and I agree that it will probably never be restored. If it was, it would be for Jews, not Christians.
But that's not what you said, you said the religion has been wiped out.

Jesus said the Kingdom of God was (would be in his day) taken away from the Jews. You do not believe this?

I believe that salvation is through Christ, not Judaism.
But it doesn't mean that Jews can never enter the kingdom.

Or do you think God is still speaking to Jews to come to the Messiah? This is true. Would it trouble you to know that God is speaking to Muslims to do the same?

Yes it is true that God is calling Jews to recognise their Messiah.
No it does not trouble me at all that he is also calling Muslims to do the same.

This was you saying that the Jews still have a mission.

I never said the Jews still have a mission.
What I was objecting to was the implication that Judaism has been wiped out (your words), is finished, that God is finished with them, and that it is only Christians who are important.
Judaism is still a flourishing religion, and God clearly has not finished with them, evidenced by the fact that some are accepting Jesus as their Messiah. Salvation IS through Christ alone, but any Christian talking to a Jew who took the "we are right and have replaced you as God's favourites" attitude would not get very far in terms of being able to share their faith.

Hate to tell you this but the first Christians were pretty much all Jews for a time.

I don't know why you say "hate to tell you this", I am perfectly well aware of that fact. Though I would say that none of them ever stopped being Jewish - in terms of nationality, heritage and so on. In one of the books I read, and as I was trying to say, it was the statement that people needed to STOP being Jews and BECOME Christians that many of them found hurtful. It was like saying "Jesus accepts you as you are; come to him, receive him, believe in him then you will be able to STOP being what you were and become something else."

Jewish people who are told the Good News and accept that Jesus of Nazareth was their Messiah, as far as I am aware, prefer to be known as Messianic Jews - still Jews, but Jews who recognise the Messiah.
They still have their heritage, ancestry, culture, the OT etc and may still keep some of the Jewish feasts, recognising their fulfilment in Christ.

The Jews who recoil at being called Christians ought to consider that their ancestors murdered the Christians. Might help them forgive the Christians who try to get them to become Christians.

I can't speak for all Jews and would not tell them what to do. I'm just saying that the book I read, written by a Jew, pointed out that many of his fellow Jews hated that they were being asked to BECOME Christians, as if they had to stop being Jews and deny their Judaism.

I find it odd that you ask me if I want to be a part of telling the Jews what they are missing

I didn't.
I said that it could be that God is asking you - either now, or one day - to take the Good News to the Jews.

That does not save a single one of them today. That is my point.

I know that Judaism doesn't save; I never said otherwise.

The whole reason for writing my post was that I read yours, in which you used phrases like "Judaism is over", "God has left Judaism", "God has finished with the Jews" and so on.
That is not true.
God still wants to save Jews and bring them to himself; he has not finished with, left or deserted them.
There are groups who reach out to Jews and tell them that Jesus was the Messiah. There are Jews today who are being saved. It doesn't matter if the term "Messianic Jews" is in the Bible or not; it's what these people feel happy being called. The term "Christian" was originally a nickname, and was probably seen as an insult since the early church were seen as part of a Jewish sect, proclaiming a false Messiah.
No wonder the Jews persecuted the early church; they had faith, beliefs, rules and traditions given, by God, to Moses, which they had followed for hundreds of years - then a group of uneducated Jewish men came along, said that Jesus was the Messiah and Saviour and that all their God given laws and traditions would not save them. If I was a fundamentalist and believed in, and used, violence, I might well persecute Moonies who claim that Jesus failed in his mission and that Mr Moon was their Messiah. They are following a false Messiah - just as Jews believed that the early church were.

That is not me saying that Judaism can save and that the Jews still have a mission; that's me saying that God still works with, in and has a heart for, Jewish people.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Strong in Him, we have a problem because you keep changing both what I said and denying what you said. Here are some examples:

Me:Sorry but Judiasm fulfilled its chosen mission and it is over.
You: No, it really isn't.
I asked what their mission was and you answered
(You) "I never said the Jews still have a mission."

I never said the Jews still have a mission.

So first you say their mission is not over and then you say you never said the Jews still have a mission.

Then you heavily edited my statment:
Join the Jews today and you are joining a group from which God has taken the Kingdom AWAY. There is no salvation in judiams and God completely whiped out the religion practiced by Moses and Israel never to be restored.

You said that I said," that the religion had been wiped out, never to be restored. Obviously it hasn't been" which is not at all what I said.
Then you said,

You said that the religion had been wiped out, never to be restored. Obviously it hasn't been.
What I'm sure you meant was that the sacrificial system given to Moses, by which they received forgiveness through the blood of slaughtered animals, has ended. That's perfectly true - even Jews don't practice that any more - and I agree that it will probably never be restored. If it was, it would be for Jews, not Christians.

This is what I said, not what I meant to say. I said it and you edited it. the same.
Then you go onto accuse me of saying something I never even hinted at, again, HEAVILY editing my words and adding to them.

What I was objecting to was the implication that God is finished with them, and that it is only Christians who are important.

I never said God is finished with the Jews same as He is not finished with any nation on earth. Stop falsely accusing me.

Though I would say that none of them ever stopped being Jewish - in terms of nationality, heritage and so on. In one of the books I read, and as I was trying to say, it was the statement that people needed to STOP being Jews and BECOME Christians that many of them found hurtful. It was like saying "Jesus accepts you as you are; come to him, receive him, believe in him then you will be able to STOP being what you were and become something else."

You will have to talk to people who say that sort of thing. I cannot answer for attitudes I have never had in my whole life.

They still have their heritage, ancestry, culture, the OT etc and may still keep some of the Jewish feasts, recognising their fulfilment in Christ.

Their repugnance for being called Christians belays a bitterness or rejection of the first century Jews who called themselves Christians. They saw no problem with it so this seems to be a personal issue. It also shows a kind of bigotry against the Gentile Christians as though the Jews think themselves superior. They refuse to take the name of those who belong to Christ who are not Jewish. It runs like “we are not like you, Christians, and we will not be called by the name that you call yourself by. We are different. (Comes across as superior. Sorry but it does.)

The first to be called “Christians” were Jews and they called themselves that and did not have a problem with it. You ought to see that if these Messianic Jews” insist on circumcision, they are relying on the law and the NT has a great deal to say about those who rely on the law instead of Christ and none of it is good so that is a kind of warning. Part of their Judaism they had to give up like no sacrificing animals anymore. They could not keep all of the religious heritage, (no one loses their ancestry no matter what they do), culture and the OT law. They no longer were allowed not to associate with Gentiles. They had to accept them as “there is neither Jew nor Greek.” This you seem to reject.

But let's move onto other points. I am tired of you editing my statments to make me look bigoted. I am tired of you not owning statments you previously made so I have the work of having to look up what you wrote to remind you since you denied your own words. It is high maintenance.

 

[A_Thinker]

Their repugnance for being called Christians belays a bitterness or rejection of the first century Jews who called themselves Christians. They saw no problem with it so this seems to be a personal issue.

It also could be because of abuse suffered at the hands of those that called themselves Christians through the millennia ...

 

[Strong in Him]

Strong in Him, we have a problem because you keep changing both what I said and denying what you said. Here are some examples:

Me:Sorry but Judiasm fulfilled its chosen mission and it is over.
You: No, it really isn't.
I asked what their mission was and you answered
(You) "I never said the Jews still have a mission."
So first you say their mission is not over and then you say you never said the Jews still have a mission.

Sorry; that's just a misunderstanding.
When you said "it is over" I thought you meant that Judaism is over. It's not; it's still a widely practiced religion and the Lord is still able to speak to, and save, them.

Then you heavily edited my statment:
Join the Jews today and you are joining a group from which God has taken the Kingdom AWAY. There is no salvation in judiams and God completely whiped out the religion practiced by Moses and Israel never to be restored.

You said that I said," that the religion had been wiped out, never to be restored. Obviously it hasn't been" which is not at all what I said.

You said;

God completely whipped out the religion practiced by Moses and Israel never to be restored.

That was the end of YOUR quote; I've quoted you directly.
I replied, "obviously it hasn't been"; that was the end of MY response.

I don't know how my reply ended up on the end of your post; you wrote it, just then, as one statement with quotation marks.
YOU said that God had "whipped out the religion", I assumed you had just misspelt the word and meant wiped out, i.e destroyed. It's possible you meant something else, in which case maybe you could explain.

This is what I said, not what I meant to say. I said it and you edited it. the same.
.

I don't get what this refers to; what did I edit?

Then you go onto accuse me of saying something I never even hinted at, again, HEAVILY editing my words and adding to them.
I never said God is finished with the Jews same as He is not finished with any nation on earth. Stop falsely accusing me.

You said;

So I really do not know what you think the true religion of Judiasm is. God has left Judiasm.

This is a direct quote from you.
I have HIGHLIGHTED the word "left"; I edited nothing.

To me, if God leaves a religion, that is pretty much the same as saying that he has finished with it. In another place you did say that Judaism is over.
Maybe, for you, there is a difference between leaving a religion and being finished with it. If so, maybe you could explain, and if I have misunderstood I apologise.

But you have just said that I accused you of something that you had never even hinted at. You did more than hint at it, you said that God has left Judaism.
I'm not making this up or editing anything.

Their repugnance for being called Christians belays a bitterness or rejection of the first century Jews who called themselves Christians. They saw no problem with it so this seems to be a personal issue. It also shows a kind of bigotry against the Gentile Christians as though the Jews think themselves superior. They refuse to take the name of those who belong to Christ who are not Jewish.

Maybe it does and maybe they do; you'll have to read the book and/or talk to the author to find out.
I'm not commenting on why they dislike using the name Christian; I'm just telling you that's what the author said in his book.

But let's move onto other points. I am tired of you editing my statments to make me look bigoted. I am tired of you not owning statments you previously made so I have the work of having to look up what you wrote to remind you since you denied your own words. It is high maintenance.

I don't think I have edited anything of yours.
I may have misunderstood, we may be understanding a word to mean different things, or we may be misunderstanding each other or talking at cross purposes. If so, and if I have got it wrong, I apologise.

But to be honest you have just used some pretty inflammatory language.
Instead of considering that we might be misunderstanding each other, or even trying to explain again, you have stated, more than once, that I edit your statements, and now you seem to be saying that I am doing it with the purpose of making you look bigoted. I'm not.
When you say that I haven't "owned statements that I previously made", did the possibility of misunderstanding ever occur to you? Couldn't you have said that my statement wasn't clear and could I explain it a bit better? Or even, "you didn't say that just now, what do you mean?"
It seems not - it seems I must be contradicting myself, maybe to make myself look good, while heavily editing your posts to make you look bigoted.

I will explain again anything you wish me to explain, but I'm not sticking around to be insulted.

 

[BobRyan]

Speaking of calvinism i personally dislike it, i have autism, and had ocd (i think i am cured of ocd now) and tried to reason everything, and it was a torture, so i gave up trying to fit it in my life.

yeah it has a few "problems"

 

[BobRyan]

Is it your position that He has done so ?

many times... as in my post on that point

- notice the examples I give.

Been there.. done that.

BTW I assume you do not mean that one denomination is saved and all others lost. Christ said in John 16 "I have many more things to tell you but you cannot bear them now" so then having less understanding of truth does not of itself make one lost. It is rejection of truth that does that.

I assume you mean "if God would come to Earth in the modern age and tell us " (-- maybe in the form of some prophet?) which denomination had no doctrinal error -- and so all others by comparison had at least one doctrine to be corrected... wouldn't that be helpful?"

Which of course groups like the Seventh-day Adventists claim He did that very thing.

And did that "solve the question" for "Everyone"?

No. We still have the divisions.

God told Noah that his religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told Moses and all Israel at Sinai that their religion was correct -- but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told John the baptizer the Messiah he pointed to was the right one.

Christ told His disciples that He was God the Son and that their religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

These supernatural events were indeed reported - but most people rejected that report.

Seventh-day Adventist will tell you of that same supernatural event within their own denomination - but that does not "settle it" for all who hear of it.

 

[A_Thinker]

many times... as in my post on that point

- notice the examples I give.

God told Noah that his religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told Moses and all Israel at Sinai that their religion was correct -- but did that settle it for everyone else?

God told John the baptizer the Messiah he pointed to was the right one.

Christ told His disciples that He was God the Son and that their religion was correct - but did that settle it for everyone else?

More like God ...

Saved Noah due to his Godly living.

Instructed Moses and all Israel in the Old Covenant.

Jesus instructed His disciples in the details of the New Covenant.

Seventh-day Adventist will tell you of that same supernatural event within their own denomination - but that does not "settle it" for all who hear of it.

The Mormons say the same thing ...

 

[BobRyan]

God ...
Saved Noah due to his Godly living.
Instructed Moses and all Israel in the Old Covenant.
Jesus instructed His disciples in the details of the New Covenant.
The Mormons say the same thing ...

Interesting.

So then "Bible details.." These examples satisfy the scope of the OP request
=========================================

John 4

19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”

Then Jesus said -
22 You worship what you do not know; we (Jews) know what we (Jews) worship, for salvation is of the Jews.

Where did Jesus said the Jewish religion is right?

Exodus 13:21
The Lord was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.

1. "Salvation is of the Jews" John 4
2. "to the Jew FIRST and also to the gentile" Romans 2
3. " what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God" Romans 3
4. ALL the saints in Hebrews 11 are Jews starting with Abraham

Luke 24
27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, Luke 24

2 Tim 3
14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Matt 23
2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe,

=========================

Regarding the fact that the eschatology religion of Noah came direct from God - who tells Noah this is the right message you ask


Answer:
Genesis 6
13 Then God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth. 14 Make for yourself an ark of gopher wood; you shall make the ark with rooms, and shall cover it inside and out with pitch. 15 This is how you shall make it:... 18 But I will establish My covenant with you; ...22 Thus Noah did; according to all that God had commanded him, so he did.

Genesis 7
Then the Lord said to Noah, “Enter the ark, you and all your household, for you alone I have seen to be righteous before Me in this time. ... Noah did according to all that the Lord had commanded him.

2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Genesis 6 -- for 120 years - Noah was given time to build the ark and preach.

Heb 11
7 By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith


=========================
They were tole repeatedly that they had the right religion in each case.

Bible details matter

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Strong in Him, I am apologizing in the below as well as clarifying. I am sorry I jumped to wrong conclusions about your character. Please forgive me. Seems some misunderstanding was at work.

Sorry; that's just a misunderstanding.
When you said "it is over" I thought you meant that Judaism is over. It's not; it's still a widely practiced religion and the Lord is still able to speak to, and save, them.

No one one earth thinks there are no Jews anywhere on earth. I said Judaism as given to them by Moses is over. So let me ask you, is the mission of the Jews fulfilled or not? Please just answer that question and not something else in the paragraph.

That was the end of YOUR quote; I've quoted you directly.
I replied, "obviously it hasn't been"; that was the end of MY response.

You edited out the bit that you do agree with so that you can disagree with. Judaism as given to the Israelies by Moses is wiped out. Not do not quote the first part without the second again.

I don't know how my reply ended up on the end of your post; you wrote it, just then, as one statement with quotation marks.
YOU said that God had "whipped out the religion", I assumed you had just misspelt the word and meant wiped out, i.e destroyed. It's possible you meant something else, in which case maybe you could explain.

Again, you left out "as given to them by Moses." I know there are Jews in the world.

I don't get what this refers to; what did I edit?

Judaism as given to the Israelies by Moses. That bit you left out but I think we have covered that.

This is a direct quote from you.
I have HIGHLIGHTED the word "left"; I edited nothing.

I will say it again. God has left Judaism. Or, can a man find God rejecting Jesus as the Christ solely because he is a jew? Yes or no. My position is without Christ, no man can find to or find God. Jew or Gentile. Ergo, God left Judaism. If not, then a man can find God in Judaism even if he rejects Jesus. Is that your position? Do you see what I mean? One cannot have God in Judaism, a faith the rejects Jesus as the Messiah.

To me, if God leaves a religion, that is pretty much the same as saying that he has finished with it. In another place you did say that Judaism is over.

God is not to be found within Judaism as practiced today, a Christless faith. That is not an insult but a description. Go to the synagogue today and you will not find Christ and therefore, not God either. That is my positon. Do you agree?

Maybe, for you, there is a difference between leaving a religion and being finished with it. If so, maybe you could explain, and if I have misunderstood I apologise.

OK, this is hopeful. But the proof if God is in a religion is if a man can find God without embracing Christ (unless it is Christianity which requires it. So I asked a question that tells us if you think a man can find God in Judaism sans Jesus. If yes, you are saying Jesus is unnecessary and Judaism alone will suffice. God is finished with no man and no nation.

But you have just said that I accused you of something that you had never even hinted at. You did more than hint at it, you said that God has left Judaism.
I'm not making this up or editing anything.

Correct. And I stand by my words. The Kingdom of God or where God is to be found is no longer in Judaism. God has left that system and what is more,ended it in the form He gave to them. The way to God was to offer sacrifice in the temple and there is no temple and never will be again. Now realize that taking the Kingdom of God away from JUdaism does not mean God abandons individual people who happen to be Jews. You need to make a distinction. God might hate a sin or a system but it does not mean he hates the people.

Maybe it does and maybe they do; you'll have to read the book and/or talk to the author to find out.
I'm not commenting on why they dislike using the name Christian; I'm just telling you that's what the author said in his book.

Well, i cannot answer for him and since I am not talking to him I can have little of value to say about it. But I am not dancing around the truth because some people are offended by what others did.

I don't think I have edited anything of yours.

Yes you did and I pointed it out. But if you will stop, I am fully satisfied. Seems to be an improvement. Reminder: Judaism as Moses gave it to them is the most important point.

I may have misunderstood, we may be understanding a word to mean different things, or we may be misunderstanding each other or talking at cross purposes. If so, and if I have got it wrong, I apologise.

Its OK. I think the point has been made clearer.

But to be honest you have just used some pretty inflammatory language.
Instead of considering that we might be misunderstanding each other, or even trying to explain again, you have stated, more than once, that I edit your statements, and now you seem to be saying that I am doing it with the purpose of making you look bigoted. I'm not.

I see I was wrong and apologize. It seems to unconsciously edited out the clarification. I appreciate your apology. I apologize for accusing you of accusing me. I was in error, happy to say.

When you say that I haven't "owned statements that I previously made", did the possibility of misunderstanding ever occur to you? Couldn't you have said that my statement wasn't clear and could I explain it a bit better? Or even, "you didn't say that just now, what do you mean?"

Yes, and I stand corrected. Thank you for the input. You are right. I could have done that. My apologies again.

It seems not - it seems I must be contradicting myself, maybe to make myself look good, while heavily editing your posts to make you look bigoted.

I will explain again anything you wish me to explain, but I'm not sticking around to be insulted.

Yes, I see you point. I am sorry I falsely accused you. My feelings were the same, I did not want to stick around to be insulted. Shall we start over?

Again, thanks for the input. I think things are clearer now.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

opps, double.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well, most of those did not call themselves "Christians" but the memory is very much expanded and kept alive as though the events of WWII were happening daily. The record of the first first church tells of men and women dragged into the streets and stoned for being Christains by the J....s and that has literally happened down through the centuries from others (not the J...s) although the method of execution changes. This happens to the Christians to date not the Jews, btw. But the Christians do not have a lobby to keep that in the news. Keeping it alive from 80 years ago is not necessary.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

[QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 72772007, member: 235244" ]

Exodus 13:21
The Lord was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.

1. "Salvation is of the Jews" John 4
2. "to the Jew FIRST and also to the gentile" Romans 2
3. " what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God" Romans 3
4. ALL the saints in Hebrews 11 are Jews starting with Abraham

Luke 24
27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.[/quote]Sorry but I do not see "Judaism is the right religion" in any of this. Not a hint. And uh, Noah was not a Jew. There were no Jews. Enoch was not a Jew. There were no Jews at that time.

Matt 23

Regarding the fact that the eschatology religion of Noah came direct from God - who tells Noah this is the right message you ask


Answer:
Genesis 6
13 Then God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth. 14 Make for yourself an ark of gopher wood; you shall make the ark with rooms, and shall cover it inside and out with pitch. 15 This is how you shall make it:... 18 But I will establish My covenant with you; ...22 Thus Noah did; according to all that God had commanded him, so he did.

Where are the words "you got the right religion?" in that text? I don't see it anywhere. Religion is not mentioned at all. Why is this so difficult? God never mentions religion at all.

Genesis 7

Then the Lord said to Noah, “Enter the ark, you and all your household, for you alone I have seen to be righteous before Me in this time. ... Noah did according to all that the Lord had commanded him.

Where is "you go the right religion" in that? Noah righteous? Yes. "Right religion"? No where.

=========================
They were tole repeatedly that they had the right religion in each case.

Bible details matter

Where is the word "religion" in any of the above? Can you come up with the word "religion" in the mouth of what God said? I do not see "you got the right religion" anywhere. Where is it? (Hint: you absolutely need the word "religion.")