Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

[justbyfaith]

Yes, I will. Don't forget 1 Corinthians 10:13

No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

Thank you. I won't forget. Please don't forget to pray also, until you are assured of the answer in the affirmative; and I will do the same.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Thank you. I won't forget. Please don't forget to pray also, until you are assured of the answer in the affirmative; and I will do the same.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

Also remember that if you hear a teaching that justification covers past, present and future sins, that is a false doctrine that is drawing itching ears. Stay filled, my friend.

 

[Doug Melven]

Also remember that if you hear a teaching that justification covers past, present and future sins, that is a false doctrine that is drawing itching ears. Stay filled, my friend.

If you hear that teaching you can know that you have heard the truth. When Jesus made payment all of our sins were in the future.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
John 1:29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

If someone gives you a doctrine that says all of your sins past, present and future are not forgiven, they are preaching a false Gospel.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

It must be (Romans 6:3-5).



Our being born of God does not take away our free will (2 Peter 2:20-22).



Ultimate salvation requires works (James 2:24).



When we are not perfect, there is provision for repentant sin (1 John 1:9), which provision makes us perfect again (2 Corinthians 7:1).



There is. For "we are buried with him by baptism" (Romans 6:4) refers to the burial of water-immersion baptism.

In order to be saved ultimately, Christians must get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus Christ's death for our sins (Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16). The original Greek noun for "baptism" (baptismos) is derived from the original Greek verb for "baptize" (baptizo), which means to immerse. For it is derived from the original Greek verb "bapto", which means to cover wholly with a fluid. We are to be "buried" in the water of baptism (Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12), and no one is buried by merely having some water sprinkled on his forehead. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "In the Latin Church, immersion seems to have prevailed until the twelfth century. After that time it is found in some places even as late as the sixteenth century. Infusion and aspersion, however, were growing common in the thirteenth century and gradually prevailed in the Western Church". On what basis did the Catholic Church, or any other church for that matter, abandon the requirement of immersion?



It is (Colossians 2:11-12).

*******



If we sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29).



Ultimate salvation requires more (Matthew 7:21).



Hebrews 10:14 means that the once-for-all-time offering of Jesus Christ's body on the Cross has sanctified and perfected Christians. But the perfect tense does not denote permanence. For example, if someone says in the perfect tense: "I have washed my child", this does not mean that the child has been made permanently clean. For after having been washed, the child can then wrongly employ his free will to go out and play in the mud. Similarly, spiritually-washed Christians (1 Corinthians 6:11) can wrongly employ their free will to go back to wallowing in the mire of sin without repentance (2 Peter 2:20-22; 2 Corinthians 12:20-21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27; Luke 12:45-46). Also, the "forever" in Hebrews 10:14 does not denote a permanent perfection, but means that the once-for-all-time offering of Jesus is perpetually applied in the ongoing, and eternal, process by which Christians are "being sanctified" (Hebrews 10:14, see the original Greek tense), so long as they are repenting from and confessing to God every sin that they commit (1 John 1:9,7, Hebrews 10:26-29).



Hebrews 13:5b applies to Christians only if they remain faithful to Jesus Christ. For "if we deny him, he also will deny us" (2 Timothy 2:12b).

*******



It's one of the sign gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-11, Mark 16:17-18).

Colossians 2:11-12).



If I understand you correctly you are equating baptism with circumcision. Adding circumsision to Paul’s Gospel resulted in those perverters being a accursed- damned in other words . If you are equating baptism to something that sends adherents to Hell , I would think that you are on very dangerous ground.Faith in the Shed Blood Of Christ is the only thing that saves. All Christians should be baptized as a sign that you are now a follower of Jesus, but it dies not save.Simply Believing Paul’s Gospel saves—- Jesus guarantees it, He is the one Who gave it to Paul personally

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

If you hear that teaching you can know that you have heard the truth. When Jesus made payment all of our sins were in the future.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
John 1:29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

If someone gives you a doctrine that says all of your sins past, present and future are not forgiven, they are preaching a false Gospel.

Some people have apparently reached a level in their own righteousness that neither Peter or Paul could attain.As for me I’ll stick with a Biblical type of righteousness that worked for Abraham....an imputed type of righteousness that came as a result of my faith.God’s standard is perfection.I am perfect in His sight, thanks to the finished work of Christ.....it’s All Him and none of us. I sure wouldn’t want to stand before my Maker and try to convince Him of my “ perfection”. Faith plus nothing.

 

[1stcenturylady]

If you hear that teaching you can know that you have heard the truth. When Jesus made payment all of our sins were in the future.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
John 1:29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

If someone gives you a doctrine that says all of your sins past, present and future are not forgiven, they are preaching a false Gospel.

Let's see your scripture that even implies we are to expect to keep sinning in the present and future as they are forgiven. Here is mine.

2 Peter 1:9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

Once Jesus has taken away your sin, and freed us from all desire to sin after you have received the powerful baptism of the Holy Spirit, you are dead to sin, so you are not to be sinning still in the present, nor in the future! That is why I say those who preach not only our past sins, but our present and future sins are forgiven, or the defeatist doctrine that we will always sin, are preaching another gospel, one of licentiousness Jude 1:4. You are not teaching that who the Son frees, is free indeed!

And this line of reasoning is also part of the false doctrine to lead people astray: "When Jesus made payment all of our sins were in the future."

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

And don't show ignorance by countering with 1 John 1:8 that describes a person who is self-righteous and doesn't need Christ's forgiveness. Keep it in context with 9 which is how to BECOME a Christian!

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there is no truth in us. 9 But if we confess our sins to God, he will keep his promise and do what is right: he will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing.

 

[Bible2+]

Doug Melven said in post #2473:

You will not find the word "water" in Romans 6:5.

It's not needed. For it's referring to the "burial" of water-immersion baptism (Romans 6:4-5).

Doug Melven said in post #2473:

Better get studying up on all 613 commandments . . .

Christians are not under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6).

Doug Melven said in post #2473:

Water baptism is not circumcision.

It's a type of circumcision (Colossians 2:11-12) which Christians undergo (Philippians 3:3, Romans 2:29).

Doug Melven said in post #2473:

[Re: Heb. 10:26-29]
Read your verse again, there is repentance found in that verse.

Hebrews 10:26-29 refers to sin which cannot be forgiven even through Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, because it is sin which is being continued in without repentance. It has not been placed in the past (Romans 3:25), as in repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9). So "if we sin wilfully" (Hebrews 10:26) means if we sin without repentance. It does not mean: "If we sin because we want to". For every Christian has sinned because he wants to (James 1:14-15). And yet his sins as a Christian can still be forgiven if he repents from them and confesses them to God (1 John 1:9), including during his daily prayers asking for forgiveness for his sins (Matthew 6:11-12, Luke 11:3-4).

Doug Melven said in post #2473:

So those people who are doing good works and calling Jesus Lord won't make it?

Not if they have unrepentant sin (Luke 13:3).

Regarding Matthew 7:21-23, it shows that both faith and obedience to God are required for Christians to enter ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 5:9, James 2:24). But, because of free will, there is no assurance that Christians will choose to obey (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46).

Matthew 7:23a could be hyperbole, like Matthew 23:24b is hyperbole. For Matthew 7:22 could refer to Christians, believers in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31), who had repented from their sins (1 John 3:6) and performed many wonderful works for Jesus to the end (John 15:4-5). But at some point subsequent to their initial repentance, they had fallen back into some unrepentant sin (Matthew 7:23b; 2 Peter 2:20-22), so that they had to be rejected by Jesus in the end despite their continued faith and good works (1 Corinthians 9:27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Hebrews 10:26-29).

Regarding the ability to cast out demons (Matthew 7:22), that is one of the signs that people are Christians, believers in the Gospel (Mark 16:17). People must be careful not to fall into the unforgivable presumption of Mark 3:22-30.

Doug Melven said in post #2473:

Only those who do the will of the Father, believe on Jesus Christ.

Believing doesn't automatically result in doing.

For John 15:2a refers to Christians, who are branches in the vine of Jesus Christ, wrongly employing their free will in such a way that they fail to produce good fruit, so that ultimately they are taken away from Jesus (John 15:2a), cut off from Him for their unrepentant laziness, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30).

Christians can also be ultimately cut off from Jesus Christ, cast away, and burned; they can ultimately lose their salvation, for not continuing to abide in Jesus (John 15:6), in the sense of committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 2:12b), or unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29, Luke 12:45-46; 1 Corinthians 9:27).

Doug Melven said in post #2473:

[Re: Heb. 10:14]
No, but "forever" denotes permanence.

With conditions (e.g. 1 John 1:9; 2 Corinthians 7:1).

Doug Melven said in post #2473:

You say in the first part we can't rely on performance and then in the second part you say we must depend on our performance.

We can't rely on performance apart from abiding in Jesus (John 15:5b). But performance is required for ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8).

*******

Doug Melven said in post #2479:

Faith is obedience to God.

Faith doesn't automatically produce obedience (Luke 6:46).

For Matthew 25:26,30 shows that even someone who was a servant of Jesus Christ can ultimately lose his salvation because of unrepentant laziness. One way that a Christian could desire to become lazy without repentance would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable and so fulfilling (in the short term), that he continues in it over time until his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12). Love for God means choosing to do what God says to do (1 John 5:3). So if one's love for God grows cold (Matthew 24:12), one will no longer choose to do what God says to do (John 14:24), meaning that one will become lazy in God's eyes (Matthew 25:26,30).

Doug Melven said in post #2479:

Faith is the one thing required.

Plus works, for ultimate salvation (James 2:24).

*******

Doug Melven said in post #2481:
Today we know that these various sacrifices were only a shadow or picture of what Christ accomplished on the cross.
Water baptism is only a shadow or picture of what happened when we were born-again.

Water-immersion baptism actually joins Christians to what Christ accomplished on the Cross, and afterward (Romans 6:4-5).

Doug Melven said in post #2481:

God wants us to be water baptized, not for the removal of sin . . .

Yes for the removal of sin (Acts 22:16, Acts 2:38).

 

[Bible2+]

Blood Bought 1953 said in post #2504:

If I understand you correctly you are equating baptism with circumcision.

It's not identical to the Old Testament circumcision.

For whether or not someone is physically circumcised does not matter to Christians (Colossians 3:11, Galatians 6:15, Galatians 5:6). Instead, the only circumcision which matters is the spiritual circumcision (Philippians 3:3) of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Colossians 2:11-13).

If Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, get physically circumcised thinking that they have to (Acts 15:1,5), because it was commanded to Abraham (Genesis 17:10), and was part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Leviticus 12:3), then Christ will profit them nothing (Galatians 5:2). They have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4), and have placed themselves under the curse of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 3:10, Deuteronomy 27:26).

Under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, physical circumcision was required for a male, whether Jew or Gentile, whether infant or adult, to become part of Israel (Exodus 12:48). But under the New Covenant, physical circumcision is not required for a Jew or Gentile to become part of Israel. All that is required is faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29). This is one of the ways in which the New Covenant is not according to the Old Covenant (Jeremiah 31:32). The letter of the entire Old Covenant Mosaic law was abolished on Jesus' Cross (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6).

Also, unlike the abolished physical circumcision of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, the spiritual circumcision of the New Covenant of Jesus Christ (Colossians 2:11-13, Philippians 3:3, Romans 2:29) makes no distinction between males and females (Galatians 3:28-29).

Also, under the New Covenant, a non-Christian, genetic Jew, even though he may be physically circumcised, is spiritually uncircumcised (Acts 7:51), and so spiritually is not a Jew (Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 2:9b, Revelation 3:9). He has been broken off in spirit from the good olive tree of Israel, the genetic Jews' own tree (Romans 11:20,24). Yet he will be grafted in again if he comes into faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 11:23-32), who is Himself a Jew (John 4:9,22, Luke 2:21).

Blood Bought 1953 said in post #2504:

Faith in the Shed Blood Of Christ is the only thing that saves.

Not ultimately (Romans 2:6-8).

Blood Bought 1953 said in post #2504:

All Christians should be baptized as a sign that you are now a follower of Jesus, but it dies not save.

It does, ultimately (Mark 16:16a).

*******

Blood Bought 1953 said in post #2505:

God’s standard is perfection.

That's right (Matthew 5:48), because it is possible for Christians to be perfect (2 Timothy 3:17; 2 Corinthians 7:1; 2 Corinthians 13:11, Luke 6:40, John 17:23; 1 Corinthians 2:6, Philippians 3:15, Colossians 4:12, James 1:4).

Blood Bought 1953 said in post #2505:

I am perfect in His sight, thanks to the finished work of Christ.....it’s All Him and none of us.

Not if we have unrepentant sin (2 Corinthians 12:21).

Blood Bought 1953 said in post #2505:

I sure wouldn’t want to stand before my Maker and try to convince Him of my “ perfection”.

Not without repentance (1 John 1:9; 2 Corinthians 7:1).

Blood Bought 1953 said in post #2505:

Faith plus nothing.

Faith plus obedience, for ultimate salvation (Hebrews 5:9).

 

[FreeGrace2]

Acts of the Apostles 22:16 seems to me to be saying that in baptism we wash away our sins.

How would literal wet water wash sins? Don't you understand metaphors?

The ONLY WAY our sins are "washed away" is by Jesus Christ. And when a believer participates in the ritual of water baptism, they are identifying with the finished work of Jesus Christ on the Cross and His death, burial and resurrection.

Water baptism is symbolic of this. As Peter clearly said in 1 Pet 3:20-21
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

In v.20 the red words PROVE that Noah wasn't saved BY water, but THROUGH it.

v.21 refers to the flood waters by "this water" and then what does Peter say? It SYMBOLIZES baptism.

iow, literal water ISN'T the baptism that Peter is speaking of. So what's left? Baptism with the Holy Spirit, which is what DOES save us.

So, people, literal water in ritual baptism is SYMBOLIC of the real identification with the Holy Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I will pray about getting another baptism of the Holy Ghost. Please pray for me along those lines also, would you please?

This is rather sad. Where does the Bible say anything about being re-baptized with the Spirit? This is just way out of biblical bounds.

When John the baptizer spoke of Jesus who would "baptize with the Holy Spirit", he wasn't taking about a repetitive action.

When the Bible describes a believer receiving the Holy Spirit THAT IS the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It's an identification whereby the believer is identified as a child of God, and the new birth is of imperishable seed, per 1 Pet 1:23.

If a person could be baptized with the Spirit multiple times, then why aren't we re-born multiple times? Do you see the silliness here?

We are born again ONCE. We are saved ONCE. We are justified ONCE. We are given eternal life ONCE. We are indwelt with the Spirit ONCE.

Now, here's the difference. The filling of the Spirit isn't the same as indwelling. And the filling of the Holy Spirit does occur multiple times.

For example, when the believer IS grieving/quenching the Spirit, they are out of fellowship with the Spirit, and NOT being filled.

But, when the believer has confesses their sins per 1 John 1:9, in fellowship, and walking with the Spirit, they ARE filled.

Only when the believer is filled with the Spirit can they actually live the Christian life.

Otherwise, they are merely going through the motions by their own will power. Even unbelievers can live moral lives in their will power. But none of that impresses God.

What does impress God is when the believer lives their life in the power of the Holy Spirit.

So Paul had to command believers to STOP grieving (Eph 4:30) and STOP quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19) and instead command believers to be filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walk by the Spirit (Gal 5:16).

 

[FreeGrace2]

Let's see your scripture that even implies we are to expect to keep sinning in the present and future as they are forgiven.

This is the typical distorted view of those who don't understand Scripture.

No one believes that we are expected to sin. But Paul made it clear that we will CONTINUE to struggle with our sin nature, that we won't shed until we die.

Read the choices all believers continue to have in Romans 6 and read of Paul's ongoing struggles with his own sin nature in Romans 7.

This is the very reason we have 1 John 1:9. To be cleansed for fellowship WHEN we sin.

Here is mine.

2 Peter 1:9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

OK. Question for you. When the Bible says that Jesus paid the sin debt "once for all", prove to me that "once for all" only covers pre-faith sins.

Otherwise, you need to repent of your unbiblical view about how many sins Jesus Christ did die for.

Once Jesus has taken away your sin, and freed us from all desire to sin after you have received the powerful baptism of the Holy Spirit, you are dead to sin, so you are not to be sinning still in the present, nor in the future!

Yet the Bible is clear that sin is still quite possible.

That is why I say those who preach not only our past sins, but our present and future sins are forgiven, or the defeatist doctrine that we will always sin, are preaching another gospel, one of licentiousness Jude 1:4. You are not teaching that who the Son frees, is free indeed!

The ONLY time a believer is free of sin is when they are filled with the Spirit. That is why God indwells every believer with the Holy Spirit.

And this line of reasoning is also part of the false doctrine to lead people astray: "When Jesus made payment all of our sins were in the future."

OK, another question.

If Jesus only covered the believer's pre-faith sins, how are post-faith sins covered, and by whom?

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

The most misunderstood verse in the Bible may be v.9.

The words "born of God" refers to our new birth, or regeneration. And "His seed remains in him" refers to the indwelling of the Spirit. The words "he cannot sin because he has been born of God" cannot mean sinless perfection from that moment forward, or Paul was deliriously wrong in Romans 6-7 and many other places.

If it did mean sinless perfection, explain why Paul wrote this:
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. Gaal 5

v.16 gives us the contrast. When we walk by the Spirit, we WILL NOT gratify the desires of the flesh. Otherwise, we WILL do that.

v.17 is the struggle.

 

[Doug Melven]

2 Peter 1:9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

Here is the verse in context.
2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

If we do the things listed in verses 5-7 verse 8 happens.
If we don't do the things listed in verses 5-7, verse 9 happens.
So we should do verse 10 by making sure of our calling and election.
And we do that by getting to know God more and more, for the more we behold Him, the more we become like Him.
People who don't know that there past has been taken care of, get condemned by it, that is why Peter said verse 9. Not because that is all Jesus did.

Once Jesus has taken away your sin, and freed us from all desire to sin after you have received the powerful baptism of the Holy Spirit, you are dead to sin, so you are not to be sinning still in the present, nor in the future! That is why I say those who preach not only our past sins, but our present and future sins are forgiven, or the defeatist doctrine that we will always sin, are preaching another gospel, one of licentiousness Jude 1:4. You are not teaching that who the Son frees, is free indeed!

I became dead to sin when I was born-again. All believers once they are born-again are made dead to sin, but not all believers reckon themselves dead to sin, they should though.

And this line of reasoning is also part of the false doctrine to lead people astray: "When Jesus made payment all of our sins were in the future."

Jesus made payment almost 2000 years ago. I was born 54 years ago.
All of my sins were future when Jesus made payment.

And don't show ignorance by countering with 1 John 1:8 that describes a person who is self-righteous and doesn't need Christ's forgiveness. Keep it in context with 9 which is how to BECOME a Christian!

I am in complete agreement with that. So let's look at the next chapter.
2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John says he is writing to his children that they should not sin. These are believers he is writing to, not gnostics, not unbelievers, children of God is who he is writing to.
And he doesn't want them to sin, but if they do sin, he says that Jesus Christ is the solution. Our paraclete.
Now if they couldn't sin, why would he urge them not to sin?
You should also take a look at the book of Ephesians. The first 3 chapters are all about our position in Christ and what we have in Him. The last 3 chapters are all about how we should live it out.
Not sinning is a very good idea, but the fact is we still sin even though God gave us every means not to sin.

It's a type of circumcision (Colossians 2:11-12) which Christians undergo (Philippians 3:3, Romans 2:29).

Read Galatians, yes the whole book, and see what Paul was saying about adding circumcision, a physical act, to there salvation. Water baptism is a physical act.

Regarding Matthew 7:21-23, it shows that both faith and obedience to God are required for Christians to enter ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 5:9, James 2:24). But, because of free will, there is no assurance that Christians will choose to obey (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46).

Actually, it does not show what you are saying at all. Maybe if you twist Jesus' words it might.
It does say that those who call Jesus Lord and do good works will not make it.
ONLY those who do the will of the Father will make it.
His will can be found in John 6:40

Matthew 7:23a could be hyperbole, like Matthew 23:24b is hyperbole. For Matthew 7:22 could refer to Christians,

If they were hyperbole it would mean Jesus lied. I am not prepared to call Jesus a liar.

Believing doesn't automatically result in doing.

Never said it did.
Believing in what Jesus has done on the cross will result in God making us born-again and thereby giving us eternal life.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Here is the verse in context.
2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

If we do the things listed in verses 5-7 verse 8 happens.
If we don't do the things listed in verses 5-7, verse 9 happens.
So we should do verse 10 by making sure of our calling and election.
And we do that by getting to know God more and more, for the more we behold Him, the more we become like Him.
People who don't know that there past has been taken care of, get condemned by it, that is why Peter said verse 9. Not because that is all Jesus did.

I became dead to sin when I was born-again. All believers once they are born-again are made dead to sin, but not all believers reckon themselves dead to sin, they should though.


Jesus made payment almost 2000 years ago. I was born 54 years ago.
All of my sins were future when Jesus made payment.


I am in complete agreement with that. So let's look at the next chapter.
2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John says he is writing to his children that they should not sin. These are believers he is writing to, not gnostics, not unbelievers, children of God is who he is writing to.
And he doesn't want them to sin, but if they do sin, he says that Jesus Christ is the solution. Our paraclete.
Now if they couldn't sin, why would he urge them not to sin?
You should also take a look at the book of Ephesians. The first 3 chapters are all about our position in Christ and what we have in Him. The last 3 chapters are all about how we should live it out.
Not sinning is a very good idea, but the fact is we still sin even though God gave us every means not to sin.


Read Galatians, yes the whole book, and see what Paul was saying about adding circumcision, a physical act, to there salvation. Water baptism is a physical act.


Actually, it does not show what you are saying at all. Maybe if you twist Jesus' words it might.
It does say that those who call Jesus Lord and do good works will not make it.
ONLY those who do the will of the Father will make it.
His will can be found in John 6:40


If they were hyperbole it would mean Jesus lied. I am not prepared to call Jesus a liar.


Never said it did.
Believing in what Jesus has done on the cross will result in God making us born-again and thereby giving us eternal life.

I understand 2 Peter 1:9 in its context, but also that it doesn't condone us continuing in sin once Jesus has taken away our desire to sin. That is why reasoning "All of my sins were future when Jesus made payment" is dangerous and can be twisted as many do, and you know it, or should.

 

[1stcenturylady]

This is the typical distorted view of those who don't understand Scripture.

No one believes that we are expected to sin. But Paul made it clear that we will CONTINUE to struggle with our sin nature, that we won't shed until we die.

Read the choices all believers continue to have in Romans 6 and read of Paul's ongoing struggles with his own sin nature in Romans 7.

This is the very reason we have 1 John 1:9. To be cleansed for fellowship WHEN we sin.


OK. Question for you. When the Bible says that Jesus paid the sin debt "once for all", prove to me that "once for all" only covers pre-faith sins.

Otherwise, you need to repent of your unbiblical view about how many sins Jesus Christ did die for.


Yet the Bible is clear that sin is still quite possible.


The ONLY time a believer is free of sin is when they are filled with the Spirit. That is why God indwells every believer with the Holy Spirit.


OK, another question.

If Jesus only covered the believer's pre-faith sins, how are post-faith sins covered, and by whom?


The most misunderstood verse in the Bible may be v.9.

The words "born of God" refers to our new birth, or regeneration. And "His seed remains in him" refers to the indwelling of the Spirit. The words "he cannot sin because he has been born of God" cannot mean sinless perfection from that moment forward, or Paul was deliriously wrong in Romans 6-7 and many other places.

If it did mean sinless perfection, explain why Paul wrote this:
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. Gaal 5

v.16 gives us the contrast. When we walk by the Spirit, we WILL NOT gratify the desires of the flesh. Otherwise, we WILL do that.

v.17 is the struggle.

Wow, talk about someone who doesn't understand scripture! Where do I begin...

 

[Doug Melven]

I understand 2 Peter 1:9 in its context, but also that it doesn't condone us continuing in sin once Jesus has taken away our desire to sin. That is why reasoning "All of my sins were future when Jesus made payment" is dangerous and can be twisted as many do, and you know it, or should.

Just because people will twist words doesn't mean we shouldn't say them.
Look at how many people twist Jesus' words around to make them say something Jesus never meant.
There are no verses that condone sinning.
But there are several verses that urge believers not to sin.
And if as you say, believers can't sin, why do we have all of these verses urging us not to sin?
Why does Paul say, "Grieve not the Holy Spirit"?
Why does Paul say, "Quench not the Spirit"?
Why does John say, "My little children these thing write I unto you that ye sin not"?

If a child of God can't sin?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I understand 2 Peter 1:9 in its context, but also that it doesn't condone us continuing in sin once Jesus has taken away our desire to sin.

And where does the Bible say that our desire to sin has been taken away?

You have been misled. And who condones continuing in sin anyway?

That is why reasoning "All of my sins were future when Jesus made payment" is dangerous and can be twisted as many do, and you know it, or should.

The proof was shown to you from Scripture. But, of course, you have the choice to accept (believe) what the Bible says, or reject what the Bible says.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Wow, talk about someone who doesn't understand scripture! Where do I begin...

Why don't you simply begin with Romans 6 and 7 and explain what Paul was saying, then. That would be a start.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

It's not identical to the Old Testament circumcision.

For whether or not someone is physically circumcised does not matter to Christians (Colossians 3:11, Galatians 6:15, Galatians 5:6). Instead, the only circumcision which matters is the spiritual circumcision (Philippians 3:3) of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Colossians 2:11-13).

If Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, get physically circumcised thinking that they have to (Acts 15:1,5), because it was commanded to Abraham (Genesis 17:10), and was part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Leviticus 12:3), then Christ will profit them nothing (Galatians 5:2). They have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4), and have placed themselves under the curse of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 3:10, Deuteronomy 27:26).

Under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, physical circumcision was required for a male, whether Jew or Gentile, whether infant or adult, to become part of Israel (Exodus 12:48). But under the New Covenant, physical circumcision is not required for a Jew or Gentile to become part of Israel. All that is required is faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29). This is one of the ways in which the New Covenant is not according to the Old Covenant (Jeremiah 31:32). The letter of the entire Old Covenant Mosaic law was abolished on Jesus' Cross (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6).

Also, unlike the abolished physical circumcision of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, the spiritual circumcision of the New Covenant of Jesus Christ (Colossians 2:11-13, Philippians 3:3, Romans 2:29) makes no distinction between males and females (Galatians 3:28-29).

Also, under the New Covenant, a non-Christian, genetic Jew, even though he may be physically circumcised, is spiritually uncircumcised (Acts 7:51), and so spiritually is not a Jew (Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 2:9b, Revelation 3:9). He has been broken off in spirit from the good olive tree of Israel, the genetic Jews' own tree (Romans 11:20,24). Yet he will be grafted in again if he comes into faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 11:23-32), who is Himself a Jew (John 4:9,22, Luke 2:21).



Not ultimately (Romans 2:6-8).



It does, ultimately (Mark 16:16a).

*******



That's right (Matthew 5:48), because it is possible for Christians to be perfect (2 Timothy 3:17; 2 Corinthians 7:1; 2 Corinthians 13:11, Luke 6:40, John 17:23; 1 Corinthians 2:6, Philippians 3:15, Colossians 4:12, James 1:4).



Not if we have unrepentant sin (2 Corinthians 12:21).



Not without repentance (1 John 1:9; 2 Corinthians 7:1).



Faith plus obedience, for ultimate salvation (Hebrews 5:9).

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Faith plus obedience= adding to Paul’s Gospel=perverting said Gospel=falling from grace=Christ being of no benefit to you=you are accursed= end of story

 

[justbyfaith]

The Bible speaks of obedience to the faith (Romans 1:5), the obedience of faith (Romans 16:26), and the work of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3).

So, @Blood Bought 1953, I think you need to qualify your statement by saying that we are not saved by obedience or works. However, we are saved unto obedience and works (Ephesians 2:10).