GOD'S LAW AND JUDGEMENT TIME - ARE YOU READY?

[LoveGodsWord]

Please note, it doesn't matter what you say. He preached a false message in God's name and is therefore a false prophet.

He preached that Jesus was coming in 1843. Jesus did not come in 1843.

They were not correct on the interpretation of the scriptures. When they realised they were not correct in their interpretation they re-evaluated the scriptures here
and realised it was in reference to the restoring of God's truth and the cleansing of the Heavenly Sanctuary starting in 1844. You should know this already though should you not?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Neither the calculation of the time or the event was correct in Miller's reckoning.

1843--wrong year
Jesus coming--wrong event.

Taken together, false message, and a false prophet.

Sorry tall, whatever you say you cannot disagree that the message was not re-evaluated to come to the correct understanding of what 1844 was talking about in reference to the 2300 day/year prophecy of Daniel 8:14.

 

[tall73]

He did not then they re-evaluated the scriptures and realised it was in reference to the restoring of God's truth and the cleansing of the Heavenly Sanctuary. You should know this already though should you not?

He did not preach that Jesus was coming in 1843?

Define the he did not. Because he clearly did. That was a false message. He is a false prophet.

Moreover, Miller did not go on to accept the notion of it referring to the DOA in the heavenly sanctuary.

But everyone here knows Jesus did not come in 1843. That is not in dispute by any living human in their right mind. So he is a false prophet.

 

[tall73]

Sorry tall, whatever you say you cannot disagree that the message was not re-evaluated to come to the correct understanding of what 1844 was talking about in reference to the 2300 day/year prophecy of Daniel 8:14.

Well I would dispute both the correct re-evaluation, and the notion that this in any way makes him anything other than a false prophet.

His message was Jesus will come round about 1843. Jesus did not. He is a false prophet. It is really not difficult.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

He did not preach that Jesus was coming in 1843?

Here you go again not reading what I have written? He thought the time period pointed to the coming of Jesus some time in March 1843 to March 1844. His application of the scriptures and interpretation of them referring to the 2nd coming was not correct.

Define the he did not. Because he clearly did. That was a false message. He is a false prophet.

Already defined above in the posts I posted. It was a incorrect application of the scriptures. I never read anywhere that he had visions and dreams only that he studied God's WORD at the time that many from different Churches believed was true.

Moreover, Miller did not go on to accept the notion of it referring to the DOA in the heavenly sanctuary.

No one said he did? It was the people within the movement that did.

But everyone here knows Jesus did not come in 1843. That is not in dispute by any living human in their right mind. So he is a false prophet.

As already shown it was the application of the scriptures that was at fault hence the re-evaluation to 1844 and the completion of the 2300 year day prophecy and the cleansing of the Sanctuary and the anti-typical day of atonement.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well I would dispute both the correct re-evaluation, and the notion that this in any way makes him anything other than a false prophet.

His message was Jesus will come round about 1843. Jesus did not. He is a false prophet. It is really not difficult.

You are free to believe as you wish your salvation is between you and God. People get the interpetation of scripture wrong all the time and change their understanding of the scriptures as God reveals it to them, correct?

BTW I have not ever read that he ever had any visions or dreams that he was promoting only a study of the scriptures. So your claims about him being a false prophet? Human maybe. Keep in mind at the time this was a widely accepted teaching that was believed to be correct by many people from many different Church denominations.

 

[listed]

Well, the people following God's word in 1843 knew that Jesus said in a day you know not the Lord will come, and that no one knows the day or hour, and that about dates and times there was no need to write.

And they were correct. And William Miller, the false prophet, was demonstrably wrong.

But the Adventists condemned those who followed what God's word said.

But that was not enough. Ellen White said that God was in the false message of the false prophet. And Adventists have insisted ever since that those who followed the words of Jesus and rejected Miller's message were lost.

From this the IJ, and the Adventist church was born.

Ouch

 

[listed]

You are free to believe as you wish your salvation is between you and God. People get the interpetation of scripture wrong all the time and change their understanding of the scriptures as God reveals it to them, correct?

BTW I have not ever read that he ever had any visions or dreams that he was promoting only a study of the scriptures. So your claims about him being a false prophet? Human maybe. Keep in mind at the time this was a widely accepted teaching that was believed to be correct by many people from many different Church denominations.

Run out of air again. Now you try to dismiss another. Nothing new. You have no argument based on anything, especially the truth.

 

[listed]

Well for me personally, I do not think anyone has a perfect understanding to all aspects of prophecy. We need Jesus to be our guide and teacher. The most important thing is that we seek him through his Word for truth in relation to the scriptures. Our salvation is not based on how well we know the prophecies.

If Jesus is our guide, why are we lead by the Spirit and why do you insist we are lead by the law?

 

[listed]

As shared with you earlier. I read and study God's WORD for myself. I do not like to use scholars/commentaries for my own bible study normally. If I think someone will benefit by my posting and using them and it can help a conversation then I provide them.

The clear evidence is you study your churches teachings, calling it Bible study.

 

[listed]

Hope this helps.

You really think you can sway tall73?

 

[listed]

Sorry tall, the scriptures in the posts already provided disagree with your application of the Sanctuary and it's restoration has been shown not to be correct. There has been no false date setting; where has false date setting been made? I am happy to re-post the scriptures that disagree with you here. So let's be clear before doing so..

So you do not agree that...

* There are parallels in both Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 and their connection to the restoration of the daily sacrifice, Sanctuary and God's truth at the end of the 2300 day/year prophecy?

* Daniel 7 and Daniel in your view do not show a the restoration of the Sanctuary linked to judgement which is for the cleansing of sin?

* The book of life in not used in the judgement of Daniel 7-8?

* The book of life is not used in the judgement of God's people?

* Judgement has nothing to do with the day of Atonement and the cleansing of the Sanctuary?

Thanks for your clarification. Happy to go through each point again if you like and provide the scriptures.

The rest of your post here is only repitition of what has allready been discussed. So does not need to be covered again.

Run out of air?

 

[listed]

This is where I beleive you have the earthly mixed up the the heavenly as discussed earlier.

Only because you've not swayed.

 

[listed]

Ineed but it is very clear what books are being referred to in the judgement this is demonstrated in the scriptures already provided from Daniel and Revelation that the books being referred to in the judgement were the book of life. Those not written in the book of life and those blotted out receive the Judgements of God. Those who are were written in the book of life are the ones said to receive God's kingdom. This is demonstrated in both the books of Daniel and Revelations. We must look at the book of Daniel in light of the scripture, chapter, book and context to the whole bible not in isolation of the rest as we are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

1. First Peter 4:17, “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God, and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?” Here Peter regards this declaration as a prophetic statement applicable “to the last period of the church” (v5–7, 12–13). It reveals two great classes—the righteous and the sinners—that “will be judged before they are raised from the dead.” The investigative judgment of the house, or church, of God will take place before the first resurrection; so will the judgment of the wicked take place during the 1000 years of Rev. 20, and they will be raised at the close of that period.”

2. The text “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection” (Rev 20:6) refers to the righteous and is evidence that their cases will be “decided before Jesus comes to raise them from the dead.” As to the time of this judgment, it will take place “while Jesus offers his blood for the blotting out of sins.”

But you repeatedly post Christians here are wicked because they don't take your position as their own and keep your version of the law by unrepentant and continual sin.

3. First Timothy 5:24, “Some men’s sins [the righteous] are open beforehand, going before to judgment, and some men [the wicked] they follow after,” means that “some men lay open, or confess their sins, and they go to judgment while Jesus’ blood can blot them out, and the sins be remembered no more; while sins unconfessed, and unrepented of, will follow, and will stand against the sinner in that great day of judgment of 1000 years.”

This is exactly what I reference above. You're referring exclusively to the 4th commandment which has no jurisdiction because of the new covenant which doesn't include a sabbath command.

4. Further evidence of a preadvent judgment is seen in 1 Peter 4:5. From this text, it appears that the saints are judged while some are living and others are dead.

Exactly as my oft repeated reference to John 5:24 says. That verse by itself kills the IJ doctrine.

5. The Day of Atonement is a type of the judgment of God’s people. The 2300 days “reached to the cleansing of the sanctuary, or to the great day of atonement in which the sins of all who shall have part in the first resurrection will be blotted out.” the evidence is clear that since 1844 “the judgment of those who died subjects of the grace of God has been going on, while Jesus has been offering his blood for the blotting out of their sins.”

No Jesus only offered His blood once.

Much attention is given to the matter of the blotting out of sins in the judgment in the combined books of Daniel and Revelation. In regard to the time, Daniel 8:14 shows that this judgement does not take place when sinners are forgiven. Rather, it occurs during “the time of the cleansing of the sanctuary,” at “the great day of atonement 2300 years after the establishement and acts of the little horn.

Jesus offers his blood for the blotting out of sins. The “time for blotting out of sins is placed forward just prior to the second appearing of Jesus” according to Daniel Acts 3:19–21 and “is evidently the last great work in the ministry of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary.”

No again. It's only a matter of individual acceptance of Jesus' one time offering.

The significance of the blotting out process is brought out by the fact that there is a record in heaven of the actions of every “accountable” person (Rev 20:12; Dan 7:10; Mal 3:16). The book of life contains “the names of all who become the special subjects of divine favor” (Dan 12:1; Rev 3:5; Phil 4:3). The other divine books contain a record of sins and the deeds we have done both good aned bad (Revelations 20:11-12; 15; * Note only provided to show "other books" considered in the judgement) and also “the pardon of sins repented of, and forgiven with those works shown as evidence of their faith. This results in the maintaining of the saints names in the book of life or blotting out of the saints names in the judgement (Exodus 32:33; Deut 9:14; Rev 3:5)



This has already been addressed showing the scriptures in relation to God's "books" used in the judgement one being the book of life and the other being the book of deeds done
The judgement results in keeping the saints in the book of life of blotting them out of the book of life based on their deeds (Dan 12:1; Rev 3:5; 8; 17:8; 20:12-13; 15; Mal 3:16 *Note scriptures only provided to show different books used in God's judgment).

Saying there is no book of life and book of deeds used in the judgement because the books are not descibed within the scripture of Daniel 7:10 which states that a judgment is taking place after the estaclishment of the little horn when scripture decribes what the books are that are used in the judgement in other scriptures is not an argument to say that these are not the books used in the judgment referred to in relation to the restoration and cleansing of the Sanctuary applied in Daniel 7:10 and the restoration of God's truth outlined in Daniel 8:14.



In the books that were opened (Daniel 7:10) prior to the giving of the kingdom to the Saints v 27



Not at all. The searching of the books for judgement is God's Work not ours or the work of the high priest.

The day of atonement (earthly) was the only time during the year when the high priest would enter the Holy of Holies in the innermost chamber of the Temple (or Tabernacle) to make atonement for the sins of all Israel. Atonement literally means "covering." The purpose of the sacrifice was to bring reconciliation between man and God (or "at-onement" with God) by covering the sins of the people and the removal of the sins of God's people held within the Sanctuary from the presence of God for the cleansing of the Sanctuary (scapegoats).

The days leading up to and on the day of Atonement for cleansing of sin (earthly) was a time of repentance to God's people (Lev 23:24-30). At this time God's people were to express remorse for their sins committed throughout the year through prayer and fasting.

The day of atonement was a type of final day of judgment to God's people, for the removal of and cleansing of the Sanctuary from all the sins of God's people committed throughout the year.

God's Word shows that the judgment is determined by what is written in God's books which include the Book of Life and the the book of remembrance (book of deeds and actions). Rev 3:5; 8; 17:8; 20:12-13; 15; Mal 3:16. Not any man made books written in the earthly of which was only a pattern of that which is in heaven. Only God can examine the books of the judgement because only God is holy.



As shown stated earlier posts the reference from Daniel 21:1 and many from Revelations and elsewhere was only provided when examining what the scriptures say are God's books used in the judgement as outlined in Daniel 7:10 nothing further. I believe God's word disagrees with you here. Although I do also believe the little horn received God's punishment after the judgment is completed.



Already discussed this is like saying a scripture is not talking about the ten commandments when the words ten commandments are not used but some of the ten commandments are being referenced throughout the scripture. It is a false argument.

As shown in the earlier posts the scriptures of Daniel * show that..

DANIEL 7 AND DANIEL 8 * There are parallels in both Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 and their connection to the restoration of the daily sacrifice, Sanctuary and God's truth at the end of the 2300 day/year prophecy?

DANIEL 7 AND DANIEL 8 * Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 show the restoration of the Sanctuary and the daily sacrifice linked to judgement (Dan 7:10) which is for the cleansing and restoration of the Sanctuary (Dan 8:14)

DANIEL 7 * Says the judgement is determined by what is written in the books that were opened (Daniel 7:10). Other scripture show what books are used in the judgment which include the book of life and the book of rememrance (deeds) Rev 3:5; 8; 17:8; 20:12-13; 15; Mal 3:16.

DANIEL 7 * It is the books that are used in the judgment that finalise who God's people are that are given the Kingdom of God at the completion of the judgement.

DANIEL 8 Judgement has everything to do with the day of Atonement and the cleansing of the Sanctuary



Sorry tall, your interpretation here disagrees with God's WORD. Prior to the 2nd coming and the completion of God's judgment we read...

REVELATION 22:11-14
[11], He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
[12], And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[13], I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
[14], Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

MATTHEW 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

2 TIMOTHY 2: 7-8, I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: From now on there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but to all them also that love his appearing.

God's saints will be judged prior to the 2nd coming at which time all those found written in the book of life will be rewarded.

Hope this helps.

You clearly promote salvation by works through the books that are opened at the judgment of the wicked.

 

[listed]

You disagree and think Jesus came in 1843? Because otherwise he is a false prophet.

Then the 1,000 years of peace is a bunch of garbage. Weapons haven't been turned into plows. Animals of prey are still doing their hunting.

 

[listed]

Here you go again not reading what I have written? He thought the time period pointed to the coming of Jesus some time in March 1843 to March 1844. His application of the scriptures and interpretation of them referring to the 2nd coming was not correct.



Already defined above in the posts I posted. It was a incorrect application of the scriptures. I never read anywhere that he had visions and dreams only that he studied God's WORD at the time that many from different Churches believed was true.



No one said he did? It was the people within the movement that did.



As already shown it was the application of the scriptures that was at fault hence the re-evaluation to 1844 and the completion of the 2300 year day prophecy and the cleansing of the Sanctuary and the anti-typical day of atonement.

I'm curious as to your level of study. What is your education credentials?

 

[tall73]

You are free to believe as you wish your salvation is between you and God.

Oh wait. Miller can mislead thousands upon thousands and give a false message in God's name, and he is fine, and not even a false prophet.

But if I believe he is a false prophet my salvation is at stake?

People get the interpetation of scripture wrong all the time and change their understanding of the scriptures as God reveals it to them, correct?

So to be clear, Miller should not have preached that Jesus was coming in 1843, correct?

Deuteronomy 18: 21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

 

[tall73]

Sorry I do not accept that it is untenable from what you have posted above. I actually believe both are correct. As history shows in point 1 in post # 191.

Where does it say in the scritptures that the little horn had to come out of Greece at the time of Alexanders death? We are talking about the empire of Greece that was divided into four kingdoms at the death of Alexander given to his 4 generals.

His empire didn't include Rome.

The little horn was to come out of one of them not a part of them but separate to them. Rome fits this description nicely (Shown here).

Rome did not come out of one of the divisions of Alexander's empire. Rome was not part of Alexander's empire.

So it would not be out of one of them.

 

[tall73]

My understanding here is that paganism here is in reference to Daniel 8:12 "And a host was given him to oppose the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it did this, and prospered."

Paganism is how the daily was opposed and cast down to the ground by the little horn. This is not saying the daily is paganism. Once again fulfilled by papal Rome.

Hope this helps

So to clarify, you disagree with Uriah Smith?

10. By him the daily (not daily sacrifice, as our translators have supplied, but daily desolation, which is paganism) was taken away, and the transgression of desolation, the papacy, was set up.. Chap.11:31. Rome, and Rome alone, did this. While Rome was ruler, the religion of the empire was changed from paganism to that corrupted form of Christianity known as the papacy. And the place where paganism had long had
its sanctuary, Rome with its Pantheon, or temple of all the gods, was cast down, or degraded to the second rank, by the removal of the seat of government to Constantinople, in A.D. 330. So in Rev.13:2, the dragon, Pagan Rome, gave to the beast, Papal Rome, his seat, the city of Rome, and great authority.

 

[tall73]

Well for me personally, I do not think anyone has a perfect understanding to all aspects of prophecy. We need Jesus to be our guide and teacher. The most important thing is that we seek him through his Word for truth in relation to the scriptures. Our salvation is not based on how well we know the prophecies.

I agree.