What is wrong in Mexico?

[TheBear]

Are you seriously asking why an American would prefer Canada to Mexico?

Absolutely.

 

[theQuincunx5]

But should we be (have already) exporting our good soil and replacing it chemicals?

That's happening?

I agree that sometimes we go overboard with our use of treatment chemicals. But that is insufficient to decree all the ag benefits we've generated over the last 150 years or so. Not all of those things result in "replacing soil with chemicals". In fact many of the biggest ones were related to understanding how better to manager our lands or better understand disease vectors in ag.

My biggest beef is with people who want to cut public funding for science. They do so out of immense ignorance of what benefits they've received from that.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Without immigration, we would have a declining population, and a smaller number of workers

And the problem is?

Built these in the past few months. No need for IKEA, designers,computerize cutting, cheap labor assembly, shipping, handling, commissions to sales people, profits for business (except the lumber yard of course).

Think of all the people we don't need if men and women had more skills (these projects don't require a master carpenter degree either).

Next project is a porch swing. I have a great design in mind.

Look carefully at the table. It's the perfect design, seats 8 facing each other, no legs to get in the way.......designed and built by an uneducated amateur.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, but who cares ? Who could ever stop it?

Organic farmers care, and they have stopped it on their farms. People who buy organic understand this as well.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's happening?

I agree that sometimes we go overboard with our use of treatment chemicals. But that is insufficient to decree all the ag benefits we've generated over the last 150 years or so. Not all of those things result in "replacing soil with chemicals". In fact many of the biggest ones were related to understanding how better to manager our lands or better understand disease vectors in ag.

My biggest beef is with people who want to cut public funding for science. They do so out of immense ignorance of what benefits they've received from that.

Science has only recently discovered sensible agriculture, and it strangely resembles old time practices, with a "no, really" caveat.
It has been said that farming is "manure management". But with so many CAFO's manure management means building huge digesters instead of returning the manure to the soil where it is badly needed.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Organic farmers care, and they have stopped it on their farms. People who buy organic understand this as well.

A while back I looked up "organic' per the US Laws - somewhere between 10 to 20 legal pesticides are allowed even on "organic" food, and many more than that "as needed" , without labeling to show this.

Yes, a few care. Like what ? 3%
(Hopefully more; but since "silent spring" (nationwide exposure) things nationwide and world wide have gotten very much worse every year, terribly worse) ....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Science has only recently discovered sensible agriculture, and it strangely resembles old time practices, with a "no, really" caveat.
It has been said that farming is "manure management". But with so many CAFO's manure management means building huge digesters instead of returning the manure to the soil where it is badly needed.

And (perhaps verifiable as it was in the news the last ten or so years)
HUMAN WASTE is permitted .... (a prime potential and actual cause of e coli and other disease) ....
on some or most of the farmland/ growing crops.....
Apparently a lot of cities are selling (or dumping!?) human waste on farmer's soil ......

 

[theQuincunx5]

Science has only recently discovered sensible agriculture, and it strangely resembles old time practices, with a "no, really" caveat.

Yes and no. As I said the USDA has been providing amazing advances through their ARS (Ag Research Service) arm since the early 1800's. You can see specifically what I'm talking about over the last 144 years HERE

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And (perhaps verifiable as it was in the news the last ten or so years)
HUMAN WASTE is permitted .... (a prime potential and actual cause of e coli and other disease) ....
on some or most of the farmland/ growing crops.....
Apparently a lot of cities are selling (or dumping!?) human waste on farmer's soil ......

That's scary. Even human waste is.....polluted.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

A while back I looked up "organic' per the US Laws - somewhere between 10 to 20 legal pesticides are allowed even on "organic" food, and many more than that "as needed" , without labeling to show this.

Yes, a few care. Like what ? 3%
(Hopefully more; but since "silent spring" (nationwide exposure) things nationwide and world wide have gotten very much worse every year, terribly worse) ....

Clarification needed.

Why Are Some Pesticides Allowed in Organic Farming? | Stonyfield

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yes and no. As I said the USDA has been providing amazing advances through their ARS (Ag Research Service) arm since the early 1800's. You can see specifically what I'm talking about over the last 144 years HERE

And the result has been the destruction of the environment.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Clarification needed.
...

Why ?

After the poisoning of America, disclosed innumerable times even since before "Silent Spring", after which it just continued getting worse continually....

are you going to 'trust' mankind/ society that is getting more wicked ?

(as I think you noted in post 111 a minute ago)

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why ?

After the poisoning of America, disclosed innumerable times even since before "Silent Spring", after which it just continued getting worse continually....

are you going to 'trust' mankind/ society that is getting more wicked ?

(as I think you noted in post 111 a minute ago)

Did you read the link?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Did you read the link?

No.
I'm more interested in someone who can think and respond to questions than to a link unknown in purpose and unknown direction with possible viruses and such.

 

[theQuincunx5]

And the result has been the destruction of the environment.

No. Sorry. Just no.

 

[Belk]

A related question - Why wasn't Mexico mentioned in most of the - "If Trump gets elected, I'm moving to (country)? Why wasn't Mexico a consideration?

What evidence do you have that it wasn't?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No. Sorry. Just no.

Ok, 'destruction' is a little harsh. Degradation of the environment.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No.
I'm more interested in someone who can think and respond to questions than to a link unknown in purpose and unknown direction with possible viruses and such.

I copied and pasted it for you so you don't have to fear viruses.



September 16, 2013
Why Are Some Pesticides Allowed in Organic Farming?
By stonyfield-britt

Many people are surprised when they learn that organic farmers are allowed to use some pesticides. What they often don’t realize, though, is how carefully scrutinized every pesticide is before it becomes allowed in organic agriculture, and how many steps organic farmers need to take before they can use these pesticides. Further, the law that created the national organic standard very clearly states that farmers can only use pesticides that were derived from natural sources, and these naturally derived pesticides must not have long term effects or persist in the environment.


You may be asking, “But why are organic farmers allowed to use any pesticides at all, even naturally derived ones?” To understand the answer, it helps to take a step back and look at all the things organic farmers are required to do to avoid needing pesticides in the first place. All organic farmers need to have an organic systems plan in place that details how a producer will use cultural, biological, and mechanical practices to control weeds and insect pests, and avoid the need for any pesticides at all. These practices include activities like:

• Crop rotation and soil and crop nutrient management practices
• Keeping fields clean to remove disease vectors, weed seeds, and habitat for pest organisms
• Selection of plant species and varieties that are suited to site-specific conditions and resistant to prevalent pests, weeds, and diseases
• Use of beneficial insects, like ladybugs, that are predators or parasites of the pest species
• Development of habitat for natural enemies of pests
• Non-synthetic controls such as lures, traps, and repellents

Sometimes, despite a farmer’s best efforts, these methods will fail to prevent infestation from a particular pest, fungus, or disease. In these instances, organic farmers are allowed to choose from a carefully screened list of allowed pesticides. If farmers were not allowed to use these substances, they might face a total crop loss. The standard is designed to prevent such catastrophes by allowing organic farmers to use approved pesticides as a last resort.

How are pesticides screened for use in the organic standard? As stated earlier, pesticides are only allowed when they are derived from natural sources. But this isn’t enough, because there are plenty of natural substances out there that could still have negative effects on human health or the environment. Before a pesticide is allowed, the law requires it to be evaluated to make sure that:

• It is not toxic to non-target organisms (humans or wildlife)
• It breaks down quickly and does not persist in the environment
• The manufacturing process for the substance does not result in environmental contamination
• It does not have negative effects on soil health, soil microorganisms, other crops or livestock
• There aren’t any safer alternatives that could be used.

If a pesticide meets all of these criteria, then it can be used as a last resort by organic farmers. We know that many of the pesticides allowed in non-organic agriculture are linked to a growing list of negative health effects, including cancer, nervous-system and lung damage, reproductive dysfunction, and possibly dysfunction of the endocrine and immune systems. In contrast, the pesticides allowed for use in organic agriculture are carefully and regularly screened to make sure that they don’t cause any harmful effects for human health or the environment. If new information comes to light that shows that a pesticide allowed in organic agriculture isn’t as safe as we thought, that pesticide gets taken off the list of allowed substances.

It’s important that organic farmers have access to these carefully screened pesticides when they need them, so they can avoid catastrophic loss of their crops. But it’s reassuring to know that these pesticides are carefully screened to make sure their use doesn’t result in accidental catastrophe for the people and wildlife that are exposed to them.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Thanks, but the article looks like more 'spin'..... In the usa not known for truth honesty.... look at the history of 'a gent or an ge '...... and round up.... both found , well, harming many people and many lawsuits... in u.s.a. .... and the one thing that helped recover , maybe from either one, was known by veterans overseas long before they admitted it in va in the usa.....

 

[theQuincunx5]

Ok, 'destruction' is a little harsh. Degradation of the environment.

Science is a tool. It can and has been used for both good and bad. Sometimes science outruns reasonable support for moderation. But you know what IS leading to the degradation/destruction of the environment?

CONSERVATIVE POLITICIANS WHO WANT TO SEE SCIENCE DENIGRATED/DENIED OR WHO FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL TO KEEP SOLID SCIENCE FROM INFORMING ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY.

The science developed by the USDA that make your current quality of life in the modern era possible isn't always perfect and when abused can, indeed, lead to poor outcomes, especially when profit motives take over and businesses take a given scientific breakthrough to the absolute limit without considering what the ENTIRETY of the science says.

So remember: vote for politicians who see the value of public finance for science and who believe what the science says in totality at the end of the day.

In other words: don't vote for modern-day Republicans or Conservatives if you actually care about the environment