Is the rapture a lie?

[Kaon]

This is the very thing that Jesus meant when He said do not be deceived-- IF you read what Jesus says about it you will know that HE is the One who performs the harpazo/rapture
telling people it won't happen that can cause people to give up hope will be brought to your attention by Jesus at the Judgment Seat of Messiah , some people just don't get it it - Jesus is the One who brings the Great Trib upon people and people who put their trust in Jesus will NOT go through THAT hour of trial that will come upon people who refuse to repent

There is no purpose in lying to save people's feelings when their soul is on the line.

Christ is not coming back, going back, coming back, then going back. There is 1 resurrection, and 1 judgment. The Rapture, as the world knows it, is a consequence of His advent at resurrection - not before.

If you put your hope in being raptured away, your are squandering you faith. This is especially true if the pattern of God has been to keep His people in the trials as witnesses, but He has also protected them. God doesn't change; we already have Life through Christ. He told us in Daniel 11-12 to ENDURE UNTIL THE END, and that some of the Wise Ones would be killed by the sword, spoil, captivity, and flame. This also parallels Ezekiel 6:12.

God does not remove people from trials and tribulation because He is raising gods - His children. If we are to literally be children of the Most High God, we would be lacking if we have never actually had practice going through tribulation. And, every one of God's remnant has experienced tremendous tribulation. This new iteration/generation of His remnant in the tribulation will go through it.

God repeatedly told us that we are to be refined so that we are as pure as fine gold and silver (a seriously vivid comparison that resonates even today, because of metallurgy and physics.) The "fire" doesn't actually burn us; it is a perception based on what we think the "fire" is - tribulation. God also told us that the purpose of this refinement is so that we lack nothing. Can you see why He wouldn't remove His people, but yet keep them to refine their endurance until the end? What is going on on a spiritual level is serious business; now that we have Christ this meat sack of a body is not our life. We know we are something greater in Christ, and so why would God also spend the resources to keep this meat sack alive when He is eager to give us a New Body? I am not saying He is going to let us die miserably, but I am saying that we are focused on the wrong things because of our mortality and carnality. DYING is nothing, because death has no power to people in Christ. God is not going to remove us from the tribulation until the number of saints that must die is reached.

 

[Kaon]

From my understanding Rapture is a modern concept. The early Christians we’re awaiting Christs return and not to be whisked away from the world and it’s troubles.

It is absolutely a modern concept.

 

[Randy777]

I see it a lot being written and been told it. I want to know why people believe it is false.

I consider it my only hope each day. ....

You should consider Jesus the person as your hope of your outcome. One of His names is "wonderful counselor" call on Him.
I think a petribulation rapture is "mistaken" theology not a deliberate "lie"

Its clear those Christians alive on earth "when" Jesus comes to bring salvation to those waiting for Him will be caught up as they have a need to be clothed with immortality to dwell in the "eternal" kingdom that God promised to those who love Him.

 

[Ron Gurley]

the second coming
the resurrection
the rapture,
the reunion of saints....
the removal of God the Holy Spirit
all simultaneous and instantly in man-time
after the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 has ended.

 

[rockytopva]

the second coming
the resurrection
the rapture,
the reunion of saints....
the removal of God the Holy Spirit
all simultaneous and instantly in man-time
after the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 has ended.

Then Christ comes not as a thief.

 

[seventysevens]

There is no purpose in lying to save people's feelings when their soul is on the line.

Your manner of thinking is like unto saying that accepting Jesus as savoir is not going to be of any value - since you Choose to disregard the words of Jesus Himself
you do not understand it at all

 

[seventysevens]

It is absolutely a modern concept.

That originally came from Jesus HIMSELF

 

[Kaon]

Your manner of thinking is like unto saying that accepting Jesus as savoir is not going to be of any value - since you Choose to disregard the words of Jesus Himself
you do not understand it at all

Christ NEVER said we would be raptured.

I am not going to spare someone's feelings, and damn their soul. No one has to believe me, but entertainment goes a long way. I used to fight others in defense of a rapture until I got my mind blown by my Father, and received the luxury of information.


Everyone is responsible for the trajectory of their own soul, so everyone is responsible for discerning whether or not I am who I claim to be. It is ultimately up to the individual to determine for one's self whether the rapture is a reality or not. I am already aligned.

 

[Kaon]

That originally came from Jesus HIMSELF

Christ never said that a group of people would be taken away from tribulation, then kept somewhere safe, then going back to Earth with Him to get everyone else, and then setting up Jerusalem on Earth.

The doctrine is a morphology of several doctrine taken out of context about resurrection, and various input from men. Believe it at your own risk. I am aligned.

 

[JoeP222w]

I consider it my only hope each day. ....

Is your hope in the rapture or in Jesus Christ?

 

[seventysevens]

Christ never said that a group of people would be taken away from tribulation, then kept somewhere safe, then going back to Earth with Him to get everyone else, and then setting up Jerusalem on Earth.

The doctrine is a morphology of several doctrine taken out of context about resurrection, and various input from men. Believe it at your own risk. I am aligned.

Yes HE did - obviously you have not read nor understood

 

[Kaon]

the second coming
the resurrection
the rapture,
the reunion of saints....
the removal of God the Holy Spirit
all simultaneous and instantly in man-time
after the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 has ended.

Some would say all of that would happen in the twinkling of an eye.

 

[Kaon]

Yes HE did - obviously you have not read nor understood

Ok.

 

[seventysevens]

Christ NEVER said we would be raptured.

I am not going to spare someone's feelings, and damn their soul. No one has to believe me, but entertainment goes a long way. I used to fight others in defense of a rapture until I got my mind blown by my Father, and received the luxury of information.


Everyone is responsible for the trajectory of their own soul, so everyone is responsible for discerning whether or not I am who I claim to be. It is ultimately up to the individual to determine for one's self whether the rapture is a reality or not. I am already aligned.

He did not have to say rapture anymore than he said you will have a glorified incorruptible body - even though that teaching is there
You need to study the entire bible to learn about the details -sad thing about people is that they will only believe what their pastors tell them even when they don't know
Read the bible -It's in there

 

[Kaon]

He did not have to say rapture anymore than he said you will have a glorified incorruptible body - even though that teaching is there
You need to study the entire bible to learn about the details -sad thing about people is that they will only believe what their pastors tell them even when they don't know
Read the bible -It's in there

Ok.

 

[redleghunter]

I see it a lot being written and been told it. I want to know why people believe it is false.

I consider it my only hope each day. ....

A lot of the negative views have to do with misunderstanding terms and in some cases the language.

The term "caught up" is in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. That's harpazo in the Greek and in the Latin Vulgate it is rapiemur where we get rapture from. So it is in the text.

Where the main debate is on regards the timing in accordance with eschatology.

Differences are:

Rapture happens simultaneously with the Second Coming of Christ on the last day. This view is the historic futurist view also known as post tribulation view.

Rapture pre tribulation, mid tribulation or pre wrath.

I can get into more detail tomorrow as it is now long overdue or my bedtime.

To pick up where I flamed out last night and needed sleep...

All of the quoted views above are what we call Millennial views. Meaning those who hold to the rapture no matter the time before, during or after the tribulation believe there will be a physical 1,000 (Millennial) rule of Christ on Earth in accordance with Revelation 20.

Each of the millennial views (pre, mid, post), by my observation, has Biblical support with the Historic view (rapture and Second Coming of Christ simultaneous) having the least of all tensions with the text. I say this as one sympathetic to a pre or pre-wrath (Wrath of the Lamb) views. When I say the Historic view has the least of tensions with the text, I mean this from an exegesis standpoint. Draw the truth from the text and don't read in a presupposed opinion (eisegesis).

This shows there is much debate among born again believers on the subject. However, our discussions and debates on this should not bring division and we should all be in fellowship and share the Lord's Table together.

There is also debate among the millennial view on how the promises to Israel are handled. However, every view from my understanding has Hebrews/Jews coming to Christ before the Second Coming in large numbers. Some see this as a distinct people but under the Gospel of Grace and some (the historic view) see Jews being joined to the church.

I am just glossing on this as there are extreme views out there too which I did not address. For example, there are views where the eschatology drives the soteriology (doctrine of salvation). These are to be avoided as they make two distinct ways to salvation, which we know from the NT is false as there is neither Jew nor Greek etc.

I'm sure there is enough above to ignite walls of text in response or just good conversation.

One thing we can be certain on however....It's in your quote above...Hope. Christ coming back for His elect on earth with the saints who are asleep to resurrect all of us is quite a comfort and joy to wake up to each day ever looking and expecting His return.

What each view can 'get behind' is what Paul teaches prior to the 'harpazo' caught up verse:

1 Thessalonians 4: NASB
1Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. 2For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification. 8So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.

9Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, 11and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, 12so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need.

 

[☦Marius☦]

False and fictitious -

That cannot be as Paul taught in the Bible and Jesus talked of it
you have fallen for the deception of men's false teachings

Your manner of thinking is like unto saying that accepting Jesus as savoir is not going to be of any value - since you Choose to disregard the words of Jesus Himself
you do not understand it at all

That originally came from Jesus HIMSELF

Yes HE did - obviously you have not read nor understood

You are makeing alot of bold responses, but not posting a single lick of sources or verses to back your claims up. If you are going to insist claiming you know the real answer that "Jesus taught", then why not prove it instead of just going with what is essentially "because I say so."

The fact is the rapture IS a modern concept, born out of the revivalist era.

 

[Hank77]

Then Christ comes not as a thief.

Do you know when a thief is coming?

You need to study the entire bible to learn about the details -sad thing about people is that they will only believe what their pastors tell them even when they don't know

What sources have you used to understand these scriptures?

 

[seventysevens]

You are makeing alot of bold responses, but not posting a single lick of sources or verses to back your claims up. If you are going to insist claiming you know the real answer that "Jesus taught", then why not prove it instead of just going with what is essentially "because I say so."

The fact is the rapture IS a modern concept, born out of the revivalist era.

The thing is that this has been taught since the bible was written
what you have fallen as a victim of is that the spelling of the word rapture came about a couple hundred years ago , Paul did not use the word rapture - he said harpazo - which was translated into Latin which I posted in post #41
People who choose not to study dont know which is how they become deceived because they want a fast 10 word answer do they can go back to their hobbies

 

[seventysevens]

Do you know when a thief is coming?

No one knows the day or the hour

What sources have you used to understand these scriptures?

Holy Bible , All bible prophetic books and the gospel
Would you intentionally put your loved ones into a death situation? When you are the one who created that situation , if the answer is yes , that shows you do not them them ,
if you tell people what to do to keep from being in a death situation and they defy you , it is their own fault they are in the situation , not that you said they had to be in that situation to prove they love you because that is not love either