Where Is Heaven?

dreadnought

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People say that heaven is a place (people say a lot of things), but Jesus said that “the kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17:20 KJV).”

So how do you find it? Try this:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV
 

Alpha.Omega

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But Jesus also said that heaven, where the Father was when He was on earth, is an actual place.

"“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to Myself, that where I am you may be also. And you know the way to where I am going.”Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going. How can we know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John's Gospel, Chapter 14:1-6)
 
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dreadnought

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But Jesus also said that heaven, where the Father was when He was on earth, is an actual place.

"“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to Myself, that where I am you may be also. And you know the way to where I am going.”Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going. How can we know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John's Gospel, Chapter 14:1-6)
Spiritual places are just as real as physical places. Peace of mind is better than the most beautiful city in the world.
 
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HypnoToad

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So, is the resurrection not a bodily resurrection? Or, it is a bodily resurrection, but we'll just be floating in nothing but empty space for eternity? Otherwise, there has to be a "somewhere" in existence, some kind of "place", for us to be in at that time.
 
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Alpha.Omega

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Spiritual places are just as real as physical places. Peace of mind is better than the most beautiful city in the world.

The only peace that really counts, is that which the Holy Spirit give a repentant sinner, after they are saved, and belong to the Lord God, and are guaranteed Heaven after they pass this world. The Book of Revelation speaks of Heaven a a very beautiful PLACE, not just a state of mind. The Apostle Paul says of the Heavenly Dwelling Place for all those who are truly born-again Christians:

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him" (1 Corinthians 2:9)
 
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dreadnought

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So, is the resurrection not a bodily resurrection? Or, it is a bodily resurrection, but we'll just be floating in nothing but empty space for eternity? Otherwise, there has to be a "somewhere" in existence for us to be in at that time.
I suspect the resurrection will be a bodily resurrection, but heaven and the resurrection are two different things, I believe.
 
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Alpha.Omega

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So, is the resurrection not a bodily resurrection? Or, it is a bodily resurrection, but we'll just be floating in nothing but empty space for eternity? Otherwise, there has to be a "somewhere" in existence, some kind of "place", for us to be in at that time.

rest assured, Heaven is a real place where you can hop around! :D
 
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dreadnought

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The only peace that really counts, is that which the Holy Spirit give a repentant sinner, after they are saved, and belong to the Lord God, and are guaranteed Heaven after they pass this world. The Book of Revelation speaks of Heaven a a very beautiful PLACE, not just a state of mind. The Apostle Paul says of the Heavenly Dwelling Place for all those who are truly born-again Christians:

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him" (1 Corinthians 2:9)
Once again, Jesus said heaven is within us. Spiritual places are very real.
 
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Alpha.Omega

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I suspect the resurrection will be a bodily resurrection, but heaven and the resurrection are two different things, I believe.

1 Corinthians chapter 15 is very clear that the Resurrection of all believers will be bodily, as was the Lord Jesus Christ. Not some phantom as some think.
 
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dreadnought

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1 Corinthians chapter 15 is very clear that the Resurrection of all believers will be bodily, as was the Lord Jesus Christ. Not some phantom as some think.
Jesus said heaven is within us. He also gave us the clue, I believe, how to find it (Matt 4:17).
 
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dreadnought

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1 Corinthians chapter 15 is very clear that the Resurrection of all believers will be bodily, as was the Lord Jesus Christ. Not some phantom as some think.
Yes, like I say, the resurrection can be bodily (how would I know?). But that isn't heaven.
 
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HypnoToad

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I suspect the resurrection will be a bodily resurrection, but heaven and the resurrection are two different things, I believe.
What I believe here is that "heaven" and "kingdom of heaven" are different things.

There are different "heavens". Traditionally, the 1st heaven is our atmosphere; 2nd heaven is outer space; and the 3rd heaven is the residence of God. Paul writes briefly about this 3rd heaven at the beginning of 2 Corinthians 12.

I believe the 3rd heaven, at this moment is a spiritual place, or maybe think of it as being a different dimension that we can't perceive in our current state of existence. I think that the "new heaven" in Revelations will be where this 3rd heaven becomes fully manifested in our dimension (or we are fully manifested into that dimension, either way, same end result).
 
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dreadnought

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What I believe here is that "heaven" and "kingdom of heaven" are different things.

There are different "heavens". Traditionally, the 1st heaven is our atmosphere; 2nd heaven is outer space; and the 3rd heaven is the residence of God. Paul writes briefly about this 3rd heaven at the beginning of 2 Corinthians 12.

I believe the 3rd heaven, at this moment is a spiritual place, or maybe think of it as being a different dimension that we can't perceive in our current state of existence. I think that the "new heaven" in Revelations will be where this 3rd heaven becomes fully manifested in our dimension (or we are fully manifested into that dimension, either way, same end result).
I think heaven is heaven, the peace that descends on us when we repent of our sin (Matt 4:17).
 
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HereIStand

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Heaven will come down to the New Earth when Christ returns. It is and will be a place. Our resurrection has to be physical or we are of all people most to be pitied, as St. Paul would say. I take Christ's kingdom of God is within you to mean that we can take an inner refuge in God's kingdom of salvation. It's like how Augustine uses the term city of God. When Christian Rome was sacked by invaders, those who took refuge in Christian temples were spared. In the same way, Augustine points out that those who take refuge in the spiritual city of God (through faith in Christ) are spared from judgment. Neither the spiritual city of God or the kingdom of God are imaginary, but they are cities of faith.
 
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ViaCrucis

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People say that heaven is a place (people say a lot of things), but Jesus said that “the kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17:20 KJV).”

So how do you find it? Try this:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

Well, first, I'd point out that Heaven is not the kingdom of God. When Jesus says the kingdom of God/Heaven He is not talking about "Heaven", but God's reign. That is, He is talking about what it means for God to be King.

Second, it depends on what we mean by "Heaven". In Hebrew the word is always plural "Heavens", and in Hebrew (and Near Eastern) thought there were seven heavens, likely due to the significance of the number seven in the ancient near east being associated with the sacred indicating completeness. We shouldn't take the idea of seven heavens too literally, as though we can map them out in some kind of celestial topography. Fundamentally the important thing is that ancient people often envisioned the gods dwelling up in the heavens, however the Israelites frequently spoke of their God dwelling higher than the heavens, or above the heavens: God transcends everything, so Solomon could say, "The heavens, not even the heavens of heavens can contain You, how much less this house which I have built." The phrase "heavens of heavens" is similar to similar expressions such as "Holy of Holies" and "King of Kings", the literal meaning is the highest, greatest, or most sublime of something. Thus the "heavens of heavens" is the highest or greatest heavens, of which there is nothing greater or higher--and here God is greater than even this.

So, in one sense "Heaven" or "the heavens" can simply mean "everything we see when we look up and that which is beyond even that", ancient people didn't have the same view of the earth and its relationship to the rest of the cosmos as we do today, so it would be anachronistic to try and force our modern cosmological model upon the ancients.

All of this should help us understand that that "Heaven" as a concept is an attempt to speak of divine sublimity--the utter transcendent greatness of God beyond and above all of creation. Thus, the idea of "Heaven" as being God's abode, as we speak of God's throne in Heaven, or Christ being seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven, or of the angels and saints in Heaven before God's throne all must be understood within the linguistic-cultural lens of the people and time. It would be wrong to try and insist that God literally sits on a chair somewhere in the universe, or that Jesus is literally seated on another chair right next to the Father, or any of these such things. The throne of God speaks of God's sovereign authority and Kingly rule over the whole universe as the Maker and Ruler of all things; Christ being seated at the right hand of the Father is to speak of Christ's power and authority as the Risen Lord and Messiah. When we speak of the angels and saints being with God in Heaven we mean they are indeed present with the Lord, but in what sense that can be comprehended by us is fundamentally beyond our ability--but we do have the hope and promise that those who are in Christ will be with Him between the death of the body and the resurrection of the body.

Heaven, ultimately, isn't about where, but Who. It is about God's presence, God's rule, God's power, and God Himself. And we can't point to some place "out there" and say "Hey, that's where God is" because, in reality, God is everywhere. There is no place God is not. He fills all things, and is beyond all things.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Alpha.Omega

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Jesus said heaven is within us. He also gave us the clue, I believe, how to find it (Matt 4:17).

You will find that the Greek adverb ἐντός, used in Luke 17:21, does not only have the meaning of "within", but, as shown in examples by the Greek scholars, Liddell and Scott in their famous lexicon, is also used for, "with, on this side, before, near" (page 577). Jesus was here responding to the Pharisees, and it could not mean that the Kingdom of God was "inside" them, as they were hostile to the Lord and not even saved! You will find that many English versions have this meaning;

NIV, "in your midst."
NTL, "already among you."
ESV, "in the midst of you.”
Berean, "in your midst."
NASB, "in your midst."
CSB, " in your midst."
CEV, "is here with you."
HCSB, " is among you."
ISV, "is among you."
NET, "in your midst."
NAS, "in your midst.”
King James 2000, "midst of you.
RSV, "in the midst of you."
NRSV, "is among you.”
Darby, "in the midst of you"
 
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ViaCrucis

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Jesus said heaven is within us.

He said the kingdom is "in the midst of you", as He Himself was the reality of God's kingdom present right before the eyes of the Pharisees, and yet they did not recognize it.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Yes, like I say, the resurrection can be bodily (how would I know?). But that isn't heaven.

The resurrection of the body is the only kind of resurrection the Bible knows. As a Methodist I'm sure your church uses the Apostles' Creed, which itself expressly mentions the resurrection of the body.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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