Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

[Phil 1:21]

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." 1 John 2:19

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Desire God like the man did when he sold everything to have the pearl he desired.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Desire God like the man did when he sold everything to have the pearl he desired.

Romans 8.38-39 is a great passage for the believer's eternal security.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Jesus liked humility.
Mathew 5:3,5,8

I agree that over-confidence can be dangerous.

Romans 8.38-39 contains some very strong promises!

 

[GodsGrace101]

Even if you try to make an argument for faith alone, there is still nowhere in scripture that says just because you had faith for a moment you are saved for eternity.

Not only is your above comment true, but most Protestants do believe that faith alone is not enough.

Justification requires only faith. God saves us by His grace through our faith. No amount of works can save us, only our faith.

Sanctification is an on-going and life-long process that requires our cooperation. This is God giving us grace and our using this grace to do our best to obey God and to follow His ways. We are indwelt with the Holy Spirit but the Holy Spirit will not force us to do or not to do anything against our will.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The only ones who say that are antinomials. I have never met an antinomial.
Every person I have ever talked to about eternal security not one of them has ever said because they have eternal security, "Great I can now go live in sin because I am saved".

I don't know what an antinomial is, but I have met persons -- and some on these forums -- that only do not act Christianly but will tell you flat out that it's not necessary to follow the commandments. Someone right here came pretty close to that.

Also, if a new Christian is reading along, this is the impression they would get by reading that the commandments do not have to be kept because Jesus "fulfilled" the law and so it's abolished. This is a clear misunderstanding of that verse. (Mathew 5:17)

We are required to follow the commandments of God.
We are required to be disciples of Christ...as long as we are, our eternal security is assured.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Absolutely. Christians must be extremely enthusiastic about doing good works, which includes the care of widows and orphans according to James. Widows were being neglected in the Jerusalem church, so deacons were appointed to ensure that they were looked after. And the apostle John tells us that there is no point is pronouncing a blessing when we are not prepared to meet another brother's physical needs. James says the same thing.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (Jas 1:27)

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. (Jas 2:14-17).

We need to be clear that these instructions are not in order to secure salvation, but in order to DEMONSTRATE salvation.

I've never heard anyone say that works save.
You're absolutely correct that works do not save us.
Those are works of the law.
We do our works or deeds because we love God and man and desire to do good. This would be works by faith. It's our faith that makes us do these works. We do not work to be saved.

 

[GodsGrace101]

You will encounter innumerable counter scriptures, my friend.

And please be aware, that to say that grace cost something is unbiblical. What does it cost us? Nothing. If we work for it, or if it cost us something, it is no more grace, as Paul teaches us in Romans.

Now, I speak this to all:

Our faith, repentance, and good works are us working out our salvation in the sense that we are striving to enter into the narrow gate of true love and communion with God. We are constantly wrestling against the principalities and powers of darkness, which stem from the enemy and our own sinful habits. This is the true struggle of our faith. God does not withhold grace from the humble repentant sinner who seeks salvation in Christ. But when Christ returns, will He find faith on the earth? Will He find those who seek the kingdom and His righteousness? Or will He find us seeking to indulge our sins, beating our fellow servants with criticisms and unrighteous judgments and condemnations, attacking them with hateful words and ruthlessness in our hearts? Will God save someone who chooses Satan over Christ? No. Will He save someone who is unforgiving and shows no mercy to others? No.

Many will say, 'True Christians don't do these evil things!'

You speak truly! Nevertheless, are you yourself unaware of your countless sins before God, and do you still deem yourself a true Christian who possesses evidence of true faith by your works? What righteous works will you bring forth as evidence of your faith? Why do you overlook the far more vile sins that make your good works of no value? Now do you see that we are truly at the mercy of God?

This does not avert us from doing good works and having faith, but let us never think that we have sufficient grounds for assuming our salvation is secure since we cannot even prove ourselves true Christians! And until we recognize ourselves as the chief of sinners like the blessed apostle Paul, we should tremble at the thought of standing before God, being so presumptuous in our pride that salvation is assured to us. It is impossible that someone who deems the self a chief of sinners, truthfully, to consider himself to be guaranteed anything good, especially salvation. Thus, he ceaselessly cries out to God with godly sorrow over his continuous offenses against Christ and all creation, perpetually repenting and seeking to live more like Christ so that he will never be separated from the bridegroom he yearns to be with for eternity. The chief of sinners does not expect eternal life to be given to him; he hopes for salvation and he seeks it through many tears, prayers, and repentance in his utter humility, for he who humbles himself shall be exalted.

Please quote scripture...

 

[GodsGrace101]

All this stuff is good...crying ,repenting,prayers,etc.Unfortunately, none of it will save you.Poor, well- meaning Paul claimed to be chief of sinners.All I can say is “step aside,Paul, there’s a new kid in town”.You can jump through all the hoops you want,,,I think I will simply takeJesus for His word..Paul said if we simply believe his Gospel (1cor15:1-4) we WILL be saved.That would leave those in your sweat it out , kinda trust Jesus camp in trouble.Paul said that if you add to his Gospel you are Perverting it and you are “ fallen from grace”. Preach that perverted Godpel and you are “ accursed”I hope newbie Christians will recognize this false Gospel and realize that if they simply trust Jesus He will put His Spirit in you and you will “ find” yourself living a life that pleases God— only He can change you from the inside out.Faith in the Blood of Christ——plus nothing.He will finish the work He started if you have the faith to let Him.God bless.

You said you will take Jesus at His word and then spoke about Paul.
Please post a scripture where Jesus said all you have to do is believe in Him and you will be saved. I can't find one.

Ditto for Paul. Paul did not disagree with the Master and Lord Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Romans 8.38-39 contains some very strong promises!

It's a nice verse.
Just before it we hear that persecution will not separate us from God.
There was much persecution of Christians going on at this time and they were even being put to death as verse 36 states.

Paul says he is convinced. That is not a statement of fact, but something that HE is convinced of....that being that Christians will be strong in holding to their faith. IOW, I could be convinced that today is Tuesday, but it's really Friday.

Going ahead a little to Romans 13:8-13 the same Paul exhorts us to behave ourselves and live a life worthy of God's love. He does this many times and even says that he may lose his salvation...
1 Corinthians 9:27
but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.
NASB

 

[faroukfarouk]

It's a nice verse.
Just before it we hear that persecution will not separate us from God.
There was much persecution of Christians going on at this time and they were even being put to death as verse 36 states.

Paul says he is convinced. That is not a statement of fact, but something that HE is convinced of....that being that Christians will be strong in holding to their faith. IOW, I could be convinced that today is Tuesday, but it's really Friday.

Going ahead a little to Romans 13:8-13 the same Paul exhorts us to behave ourselves and live a life worthy of God's love. He does this many times and even says that he may lose his salvation...
1 Corinthians 9:27
but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.
NASB

He's not really saying that salvation in Christ is not secure; he is warning that others should not rest in the fact that they profess and then live carelessly.

 

[GodsGrace101]

He's not really saying that salvation in Christ is not secure; he is warning that others should not rest in the fact that they profess and then live carelessly.

Why shouldn't they not live carelessly?
If one is eternally secure, what's the difference?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Why shouldn't they not live carelessly?
If one is eternally secure, what's the difference?

We obey the Lord, not because of what we get out of it, but because our hearts have been made right with Him.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

We are required to follow the commandments of God.
We are required to be disciples of Christ...as long as we are, our eternal security is assured.

When discussing matters of eternity, crossed with a condition, one logically encounters inevitability. You might as well claim that a person can live forever, as long as they never die. Eve could have lived forever had she not eaten that fruit, but forever means that it's going to happen, sooner or later, unless the tree is completely removed from the garden.

I'm not making a case against works. I am, however, making a case against conditional salvation. So long as salvation remains conditional forever, and if the possibility of failing that condition remains available forever, then eternal security is not assured. Rather, Hell becomes the only sure thing.

In fact, nothing about eternal security is assured if it depends upon a condition, even for a limited time. Hence, when you say, "our eternal security is assured," you're really just playing with words. No offence, but that's exactly what you're doing by saying that.

 

[Christman811]

Please quote scripture...

I will not unless you can prove that what I say is unreasonable. You want me to give you numerous proof texts? You will still be unsatisfied even if I did that. Am I mistaken if I think that you would simply tell me that you disagree with my interpretation of these scriptures? Why would you disagree? Thus, I need not quote scripture if you will not even answer this latter question.

 

[GodsGrace101]

We obey the Lord, not because of what we get out of it, but because our hearts have been made right with Him.

Agreed.
But those who believe in OSAS will say that even if our hearts change and are no longer right with Him, we are still saved. Did you read the post about the preacher that stated that even if a person curses God to His face, the person will still be saved?

OSAS causes such talk. This is not the first I've heard of this.

If faith saves us, then we must continue in our faith to be saved.

 

[GodsGrace101]

When discussing matters of eternity, crossed with a condition, one logically encounters inevitability. You might as well claim that a person can live forever, as long as they never die. Eve could have lived forever had she not eaten that fruit, but forever means that it's going to happen, sooner or later, unless the tree is completely removed from the garden.

I'm not making a case against works. I am, however, making a case against conditional salvation. So long as salvation remains conditional forever, and if the possibility of failing that condition remains available forever, then eternal security is not assured. Rather, Hell becomes the only sure thing.

In fact, nothing about eternal security is assured if it depends upon a condition, even for a limited time. Hence, when you say, "our eternal security is assured," you're really just playing with words. No offence, but that's exactly what you're doing by saying that.

I understand...but salvation IS conditional.

John 3:16
"For WHOEVER BELIEVES"

Jesus died for those who believe. Those who believe follow Him and are His disciples. Belief is necessary for salvation.

So,
If I believe...............I am saved.
If I do not believe.... I am not saved.

No matter WHEN that unbelief happens.

We are eternally secure as long as we do not ABANDON God.
It would be our choice to abandon Him --- we should know this consequence.

The analogy is more like this: If I eat every day I will live.
My living is conditional on my eating. As long as I eat, I will live.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I will not unless you can prove that what I say is unreasonable. You want me to give you numerous proof texts? You will still be unsatisfied even if I did that. Am I mistaken if I think that you would simply tell me that you disagree with my interpretation of these scriptures? Why would you disagree? Thus, I need not quote scripture if you will not even answer this latter question.

I disagree with OSAS because it is not scriptural.
I don't like to discuss persons opinions. Without scripture you're just stating your own opinion.
If you feel you cannot back up your claims with scripture, just say so.

 

[arabianhorselover]

GodsGrace101, I pretty much agree with everything you say. Wondering if we have similar church backgrounds.

 

[GodsGrace101]

GodsGrace101, I pretty much agree with everything you say. Wondering if we have similar church backgrounds.

Well, no one on this thread could deny that mainline Christianity knows that OSAS is not a correct doctrine.

It was made up about 500 years ago by Mr. John Calvin. It was really
Perseverance of the saints, but it was changed to preservation of the saints and then eternal security and today we call it once saved always saved.
It's a heretical teaching because it goes against what Christianity teaches.

IOW, for 1,500 years all the theologians of our faith got their doctrine wrong! Could you imagine! It took Calvin in the year 1,500 AD to come up with this idea.

If you care to discuss my background, we could PM.
I attended a Nazarene church for about 10 years and learned a lot from them, but almost all churches believe in the loss of salvation. It's not easy to do and no one should be afraid of it --- but it is possible and it's always up to us. God will love us forever as long as we stay close to Him.