Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

[bhsmte]

He's right. Why ask for proof when you know you wouldn't believe in staples even if someone stapled something to your forehead?

The Bible is self validating. There's so many prophecies in it that have come to pass that it's sorta obvious...but not to you guys.

Is that your proof?

 

[Speedwell]

im not sure about that. we actually do have scientific evidence for the existence of god, as you can see here: the self replicating watch argument

Which god?

 

[Speedwell]

realy? are you saying that we have no scientific evidence for a young earth?

Correct.

 

[Speedwell]

He's right. Why ask for proof when you know you wouldn't believe in staples even if someone stapled something to your forehead?

The Bible is self validating. There's so many prophecies in it that have come to pass that it's sorta obvious...but not to you guys.

Fulfilled prophecies (if any) only validate the prophecies. They don't validate any particular genre determination for the creation stories in Genesis.

 

[Divide]

Is that your proof?

Yeeeeaah, that's my proof. Actually I think the proof was back on page 2, lol. You don't want proof. You wont accept proof, even when is it self evident.

There's about 2500-3000 prophecies in scripture, and about 2/3 of them have been fulfilled. It reads like a book! (Whoa!). You can read them through up to where they have happened, to where, it hasn't happened yet.

A book like that...a history book, written in advance...rumored to be the Words of God, more than half fulfilled already...is sorta one of those, uh-huh duh things that we all get set before us. Coose life or choose death...sounds pretty important and it's reasonable to assume that the entire book is true if so much of it has been proven already.

But one swish of the keyboard and a I don't subscribe to that, and you think that you're any kind of authority on anything?! You made a choice. That's all. Any study of the Bible at all would show you these things...but it's like was said You guys don't really want proof.

 

[Speedwell]

Well it is a complete sentence I guess, but, what does that even mean?

You could be a politician with the ability to say things that have no meaning.

I beg your pardon. I thought you meant that fulfilled prophecies proved YECism. They don't, of course, so perhaps you would be kind enough to tell me what you really meant.

 

[Speedwell]

Y

A book like that...a history book,

What book? The Bible (the Protestant Bible, anyway) is a collection of 66 books. Some of them are history, some not.

 

[Divide]

Do you Atheist guys believe in the paranormal? I'm guessing no, but don't really know.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Do you Atheist guys believe in the paranormal? I'm guessing no, but don't really know.

This is probably not a good place to ask this question. Neither a good thread, nor a good sub-forum.

Ask the question in an appropriate place, e.g. maybe here: Physical & Life Sciences as a new thread, and I'll give you my answer.

 

[Brightmoon]

who said we have no evidence for a young earth? for instance: (from my other thread) we have empirical evidence that speciation may take about less then 100 years:

Rapid Evolution Changes Species in Real Time | DiscoverMagazine.com

Watching new species evolve in real time

so lets assume a tipical speciation event= 100 years.

one of the largest family on earth is the curculionidae which contain almost 100,000 species. so if we start with 2 species then after about one generation of a speciation event (100 years) we will get 4 different species. and after another generation of speciation we will get 8 and so on. so we only need about less then 20 generation of speciation to get more then 100,000 different species (2^20) . or about 2000 years.

we also have evidence for a suppose 15-20 my old DNA. when science show us that a DNA cant survive so long time.

. Oh boy, where to start to clear up your misconceptions . Some species evolve rapidly ( allopolyploid species for example are pretty much the next generation) . Some don’t . This doesn’t mean that the earth is young. it just means the environment can support another organism-an environmental niche opened up.

There is NO evidence for a young earth. There is however, superstitious ignorance.
As far as a refutation of young earth nonsense , here’s this - all radioactive non-renewing nuclides with half lives of 8 million years or less are no longer found on earth. There are about 30 of them. We know they exist because we can recreate them in a lab. Non-renewing means that unlike C14, cosmic rays don’t create them in the atmosphere.

You can do the math yourself . If you start with a billion tons and you cut it in half 40 times you’ll end up with about a pound ( half a kilo) . With 8 million years, 40 halflives is 320 million years. The earth is a lot older than that . The earth is 4500 million years old

 

[xianghua]

Correct.

and this is simply false. for instance: science predict that DNA cant survive for more then 1 my even under perfect condition for conservation. and yet we found even 15-20 my old DNA.

 

[xianghua]

. Oh boy, where to start to clear up your misconceptions . Some species evolve rapidly ( allopolyploid species for example are pretty much the next generation) . Some don’t

first: i used an empirical evidence for speciation. second: i also gave you the example of DNA which suppose to be 15-20 my old. when science show us that such DNA cant survive so long. and third: i have no problem with an old earth. i just open to a young earth too.

 

[Brightmoon]

As I’ve explained before if you have proteins you can figure out the DNA from that . There is a natural preservation technique, that was discovered fairly recently, that uses the iron in blood . This only works for animals that have iron containing blood( like all of the reptilomorphs).

 

[Brightmoon]

A young earth is ruled out by the lack of radioactive nuclides with half lives of less than 8 million years. We’d find these as naturally occurring if the earth was young enough . The earth would have to be less than 400 million years old. That puts a lower bound on how old the earth is . A billion tons of pure material( a ton is 2000 lbs) decays to around 2 pounds after 40 half-lives. (I corrected the math)

 

[Brightmoon]

the half-life’s also prevent the earth from being more than 15 billion years old because nuclides which exist now would not be here .

 

[Brightmoon]

And you have no idea how speciation works

 

[faroukfarouk]

We don’t have to believe that the Bible is a history . In fact , it’s wrong a lot of times . Archeology and life science have demonstrated that many times

Here's a good passage from Hebrews 11.3-4:

"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh."

 

[PsychoSarah]

Do you Atheist guys believe in the paranormal? I'm guessing no, but don't really know.

I used to believe in ghosts. Technically, the only thing atheists share is a lack of belief in deities, which makes for a very mixed bag of people.

 

[Brightmoon]

Here's a good passage from Hebrews 11.3-4:

"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh."

I’m a Christian but I also have a biology degree . I had never even heard that people didn’t accept common descent until at least a decade after I got my degree. Talk about mouth dropping open surprise. So since I do understand how science gets it’s answers, I’m not about to discard that for what seems to me like ignorance and superstition.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I’m a Christian but I also have a biology degree . I had never even heard that people didn’t accept common descent until at least a decade after I got my degree. Talk about mouth dropping open surprise. So since I do understand how science gets it’s answers, I’m not about to discard that for what seems to me like superstition.

So your reason overrules God. I do understand secularism.