Against Sola Scriptura...

[redleghunter]

And so they put it on the same level as God.

Dude where are you getting this?

If I write you a letter those are my words. Of course someone can say yep those are the words of Redleg. The actual ink and paper are not me but what was communicated by me in the letter is mine.

You could wave the letter and say "hey redleghunter wrote to me, let's read what he says about the abysmal season the Texas Rangers are having."

 

[mark kennedy]

I will worship toward Thy holy temple, and praise Thy name for Thy lovingkindness and for Thy truth, for Thou hast magnified Thy word above all Thy name. (Psalm 138:2)​

God's words and teachings are infallible. We find His infallible words and teachings in Holy Scriptures. It is why we call the Bible Holy Scriptures because only God is Holy, Holy, Holy.

Indeed, but then again there is this:

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Peter 1:20-21).
​

At best we will see God through a glass darkly in this life, even with the revelation of the gospel. The Scriptures bring us to faith in Christ, it is Christ who is the living incarnate Word, that was, is and is to come.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[truefiction1]

I like what you wrote. If this was a thread in Romans 8 and walking in the Spirit and not the flesh, you would have a home run here.

Thanks.

 

[BobRyan]

Except for how you deciphered that they are inspired and Holy. See if you can do that without using circular reasoning.

Where the circular reasoning that you are trying to avoid is "trust in the Bible"??

Well here is a clue - we don't go looking for the nearest Catholic church to "find out if the Bible is inspired" nor do we believe the first century Christians were "Lutherans" or "Catholics".

In any case "why do you believe the Bible at all" is a DIFFERENT topic. A much loved one for derailing sola-scriptura threads - but off topic all the same.

This topic is for those who DO believe the Bible is true. And the question to be answered is whether the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is affirmed or rejected by the Bible.

details.

So then Today at 5:28 PM #327

 

[dreadnought]

Then you don't understand me well at all, infallibility is not the same thing as immutable.

Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’ ? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came — and the Scripture cannot be broken — then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? (John 10:34-36)
​

So what is the Lord saying there?

The Jews were going to stone Jesus for "making himself God." Jesus is reminding them that God called men gods (Psalm 82:6).

 

[dreadnought]

God's words and teachings are infallible. We find His infallible words and teachings in Holy Scriptures. It is why we call the Bible Holy Scriptures because only God is Holy, Holy, Holy.

We agree that the words of the Lord are infallible. It is in defining the words of the Lord we disagree. I believe the words of the Lord are when God and Jesus are directly quoted.

 

[mark kennedy]

The Jews were going to stone Jesus for "making himself God." Jesus is reminding them that God called men gods (Psalm 82:6).

That's right, indeed the term Elohim could be applied to God Almighty, or a priest or a judge, that much is true. But Jesus explains they were called 'god' not because they were equal with God but because the word of God came to them. You understand that right?

 

[BobRyan]

Your post says "Scripture alone is where we find the rule of faith" but you need a definition of what is and what is not scripture. .

And thank God we have one that is undisputed and irrefutable.

The Hebrew Bible of what we call the OT - 39 books where ALL are accepted by Christians who are nonCatholic, Catholics, and Jews.

The NT where all are accepted by Christian who are nonCatholic and Catholics.

The much-disputed apocrypha is promoted by some -- but it only matters if your argument is "Sola scriptura doctrine is not in the standard Bible - but it is in the Apocrypha so to affirm Sola Scriptura you need the Apocrypha".

And I have yet to see any Catholic make that argument.

 

[dreadnought]

Dude where are you getting this?

If I write you a letter those are my words. Of course someone can say yep those are the words of Redleg. The actual ink and paper are not me but what was communicated by me in the letter is mine.

You could wave the letter and say "hey redleghunter wrote to me, let's read what he says about the abysmal season the Texas Rangers are having."

I believe the Word of the Lord is when God and Jesus are directly quoted. You believe that the entire Bible is the Word of the Lord, apparently. I doubt if we are going to change each other's mind any time soon.

 

[W2L]

We agree that the words of the Lord are infallible. It is in defining the words of the Lord we disagree. I believe the words of the Lord are when God and Jesus are directly quoted.

What about the great commission? Jesus ordered the apostles to teach whatever He commanded. They can do this without directly quoting the Lord. For example, the Lord never spoke about circumcision, yet we know the apostles teach us that we dont need to be circumcised.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe the Word of the Lord is when God and Jesus are directly quoted. You believe that the entire Bible is the Word of the Lord, apparently. I doubt if we are going to change each other's mind any time soon.

Jesus said that the Bible is the Word of God and condemned any and all attempts to delete/edit/ignore it in Mark 7:6-13 beginning with "in vain do they worship Me..."

 

[dreadnought]

That's right, indeed the term Elohim could be applied to God Almighty, or a priest or a judge, that much is true. But Jesus explains they were called 'god' not because they were equal with God but because the word of God came to them. You understand that right?

I agree with the part that men aren't equal to God. As for the part about the word of God coming to them, that never occurred to me. It's always seemed like a strange thing for the Lord to say, though maybe he was looking ahead to the day Jesus would walk the earth and be accused of making himself God.

 

[dreadnought]

What about the great commission? Jesus ordered the apostles to teach whatever He commanded. They can do this without directly quoting the Lord. For example, the Lord never spoke about circumcision, yet we know the apostles teach us that we dont need to be circumcised.

Well, the Lord did teach many things that aren't found in the Bible (John 21:25), but I know not to put my hand on a hot stove, even though it isn't mentioned in the Bible.

 

[mark kennedy]

I agree with the part that men aren't equal to God. As for the part about the word of God coming to them, that never occurred to me. It's always seemed like a strange thing for the Lord to say, though maybe he was looking ahead to the day Jesus would walk the earth and be accused of making himself God.

It's in the text, the reason they were called gods, which is Elohim, was because they had received the word of God:

Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’ ? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came — and the Scripture cannot be broken — then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God? (John 10:34-36)​

The same was said of Moses, who was by the way, from the tribe of Levi:

Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. (Exodus 7:1)
​

So you understand the point Jesus was making was with regards to the fact that they had received, and were called to deliver, the word of God?

 

[dreadnought]

Jesus said that the Bible is the Word of God and condemned any and all attempts to delete/edit/ignore it in Mark 7:6-13 beginning with "in vain do they worship Me..."

The Bible, as we know it, hadn't even been created when Jesus walked the earth.

 

[W2L]

Well, the Lord did teach many things that aren't found in the Bible (John 21:25), but I know not to put my hand on a hot stove, even though it isn't mentioned in the Bible.

The Galatians didnt know to keep their hands off a hot stove.

 

[dreadnought]

It's in the text, the reason they were called gods, which is Elohim, was because they had received the word of God:

Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’ ? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came — and the Scripture cannot be broken — then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God? (John 10:34-36)​

The same was said of Moses, who was by the way, from the tribe of Levi:

Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. (Exodus 7:1)
​

So you understand the point Jesus was making was with regards to the fact that they had received, and were called to deliver, the word of God?

Here are the Lord’s words. He said that they all were gods, not just those who had received the word:

[6] I say, "You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
[7] nevertheless, you shall die like men,
and fall like any prince." Psalm 82:6-7 RSV

 

[mark kennedy]

The Bible, as we know it, hadn't even been created when Jesus walked the earth.

The Old Testament had been, the early church didn't need a canon of Scripture when the Apostles were with them. It's when they started losing Apostles that the New Testament as a written collection became necessary.

 

[dreadnought]

The Galatians didnt know to keep their hands off a hot stove.

I was unaware of that.

 

[dreadnought]

The Old Testament had been, the early church didn't need a canon of Scripture when the Apostles were with them. It's when they started losing Apostles that the New Testament as a written collection became necessary.

But I didn't see anything in Mark 7:6-13 that suggested to me that Paul had the authority of the Lord.