7th Trumpet Rapture?

[jerry kelso]

The church is not a Gentile church.

hank77,

1. I never said the church is a gentile only church. Paul gave the scripture of the mystery of the church of Jews and Gentiles Ephesians 2:14-15;3:3-6.

2. Jesus ministry of the KoH and the KoG program was only to the Jews before the cross.
Gentiles we’re proselyted into Judaism at this time. Jerry Kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

God is God and can write anything He wants! And it truth, He did.

I have been telling you that you pull the first seal out of its context, but you still don't get it. OF COURSE I believe in context. But when John wrote, "After these things" he was using that phrase as a transitional phrase to tell the readers he was on another subject. He does this I believe 6 times in Revelation, each time to show a transition to another subject.

You want to LIMIT God to the future from Rev. 4 on. But did you consider this had to make sense for those first readers in 95 AD? In their mind it would not be "after the church age" but more like "after 95 AD."

And in truth, Jesus show John some history as in WHEN Jesus took the book from the Father's hand and began breaking the seals. He did this AS SOON AS HE ASCENDED.

Of course if you imagine God limited Himself by what He said in Chapter 1, you will never see it.

Question: DID John write of what he "had seen"? Of course he did!
Did John write of things that "are" or were at his time? Of course he did.
Did John write of future events also? Of course he did. So John CERTAINLY fulfilled that verse.

iamlamad,

1. The transitional phase from church age ending, church raptured to Heaven beginning to finding the one who was worthy to open the seals who was the Lamb.
The church is the one redeemed to God by the blood out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation Revelation 5:9.
And hast made us kings, priests, and we shall reign on earth.
This is the church that has been redeemed and we shall reign on earth is future after the seals, trumpets, and vials of the tribulation, the 1000 year millennial KoH reign on earth Revelation 20. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

God is God and can write anything He wants! And it truth, He did.

I have been telling you that you pull the first seal out of its context, but you still don't get it. OF COURSE I believe in context. But when John wrote, "After these things" he was using that phrase as a transitional phrase to tell the readers he was on another subject. He does this I believe 6 times in Revelation, each time to show a transition to another subject.

You want to LIMIT God to the future from Rev. 4 on. But did you consider this had to make sense for those first readers in 95 AD? In their mind it would not be "after the church age" but more like "after 95 AD."

And in truth, Jesus show John some history as in WHEN Jesus took the book from the Father's hand and began breaking the seals. He did this AS SOON AS HE ASCENDED.

Of course if you imagine God limited Himself by what He said in Chapter 1, you will never see it.

Question: DID John write of what he "had seen"? Of course he did!
Did John write of things that "are" or were at his time? Of course he did.
Did John write of future events also? Of course he did. So John CERTAINLY fulfilled that verse.

iamlamad,

1. There’s no limiting to the future from Revelation 4 for God has order.
The tribulation is basically for the restoration of the Nation of Israel Daniel 9:24-27 to receive their gifts and callings Roman’s 11:29;25-29.
The purpose of the millennial kingdom is to put down all sin and rebellion 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. And after death and hell are gone forever Revelation 20:12-15.
And the eternal state is found in Revelation 21-22. There is no limit.

2. The people in John’s day wouldn’t necessarily mean they would understand everything for they would not they really couldn’t. Why?
The Bible says knowledge will increase. People in John’s day didn’t cover the whole globe. The Kingdom gospel wasn’t preached to the whole world for a witness whether 70 A.D. or 95 A.D.
Today, the globe is covered completely and connected. The time of Jacob’s trouble will be the time when Matthew 24:14-15.
The kingdom gospel is of the Jews when they preach as a witness to the nations; the Kingdom is coming, the kingdom is coming, Jesus is going to take over the kingdoms of the world and put Israel at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4.
The fullness of the Gentiles could not have happened at 95 A.D. for the whole globe was not populated and connected.
Each generation from 95 A.D.or even before could only comprehend what was happening and what their perception was of it.
The closer we get we will understand more no matter what position we hold.
But we must be as fair and thoroughly thorough in exegesis and hermeneutics.

3. There is no implication or proof that Jesus opened the seals after he ascended. If this is true then the Revelation is only for the church of the 7 churches of Asia of who they were written to originally. Of course this is not true and cannot be.

 

[BABerean2]

The tribulation is basically for the restoration of the Nation of Israel Daniel 9:24-27 to receive their gifts and callings Roman’s 11:29;25-29.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

.

 

[BABerean2]

Paul gave the scripture of the mystery of the church of Jews and Gentiles Ephesians 2:14-15;3:3-6.

The Church may have been a "mystery" to most, however based on what Paul said below it was not a mystery to Hosea.

Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
Rom 9:24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As He says also in Hosea: "I WILL CALL THEM MY PEOPLE, WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, AND HER BELOVED, WHO WAS NOT BELOVED."
Rom 9:26 "AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,' THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD."

This passage destroys the Dispensationalists claim that the Church was a "mystery" not found in the Old Testament.

.

 

[iamlamad]

iamlamad,

1. There’s no limiting to the future from Revelation 4 for God has order.
The tribulation is basically for the restoration of the Nation of Israel Daniel 9:24-27 to receive their gifts and callings Roman’s 11:29;25-29.
The purpose of the millennial kingdom is to put down all sin and rebellion 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. And after death and hell are gone forever Revelation 20:12-15.
And the eternal state is found in Revelation 21-22. There is no limit.

Revelation 4 verse 1 happened around 95 AD. It was John called up to heaven. To make it say anything else is very poor exegesis. John was called up to heaven so the church would have the book of Revelation to read and study. Didn't God say He would not do anything unless He tells us first?
I agree in part: chapters 8 through 16 are Daniel's 70th week and for His people, not the church. However, on earth at the time will be three different groups of people: the remnant of the church, those left behind at the pretrib rapture: these will be those who believe in Jesus and follow Him.

The second group will be the Hebrew people: the Jews and those of the other tribes.

The third group will be the nations.

There are scriptures pointed towards each of these groups and when people take a scripture meant for the Hebrews and apply it to the church, confusion reigns.

To read with preconceived glasses also causes confusion. You know as well as I do that in Rev. 5 John saw the "lamb, as though it had been slain," suddenly appear in the throne room. But you want to ignore what God is telling us there, due to preconceptions. You ignore the story God is telling: first a throne room with NO Christ in it, the Holy Spirit there and not on earth, a search for one worthy that ended in failure, and finally the Lamb as though it had been slain suddenly appearing in the throne room. IT SHOWS TIMING, timing which you ignore.

 

[iamlamad]

iamlamad,
...
2. The people in John’s day wouldn’t necessarily mean they would understand everything for they would not they really couldn’t. Why?
The Bible says knowledge will increase. People in John’s day didn’t cover the whole globe. The Kingdom gospel wasn’t preached to the whole world for a witness whether 70 A.D. or 95 A.D.
Today, the globe is covered completely and connected. The time of Jacob’s trouble will be the time when Matthew 24:14-15.
The kingdom gospel is of the Jews when they preach as a witness to the nations; the Kingdom is coming, the kingdom is coming, Jesus is going to take over the kingdoms of the world and put Israel at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4.
The fullness of the Gentiles could not have happened at 95 A.D. for the whole globe was not populated and connected.
Each generation from 95 A.D.or even before could only comprehend what was happening and what their perception was of it.
The closer we get we will understand more no matter what position we hold.
But we must be as fair and thoroughly thorough in exegesis and hermeneutics.

It is my guess that the 144,000 will be preaching the Kingdom gospel. But John does not tell us this.

Revelation had the same meaning to them as it has to us: it has not changed. TIME has changed, but we are still in the same age of grace that they lived in. They had no idea when Jesus would return. I think Paul thought for a while it would be during his lifetime. I suspect those in 95 AD thought the same thing. We. looking back, can see almost 2000 years of time in which He did NOT return. But we are in the same church age.

WE know, looking back, that the fullness of the Gentiles is STILL not in, but you are right, they couldn't see the future. But then, we won't know the day that verse will be fulfilled either! So we are in the same place they were: waiting for that day.

I agree, we must use good exegesis. When I read that John did NOT see Jesus at the Father's right hand, when there are a dozen verses telling us that is where He should have been in 95 AD, I take note of that. Then when I see the Holy Spirit still in the throne room in chapter 4, But sent down as soon as Jesus ascended, I take note of that too. And when I add to that, a search was made to find one worthy, but that first search that John got to see ended in failure, I must take note of that too.

It took me a long time to see timing there, and the movement of time, but now I see it very clearly. A search was made that ended in failure, but another search was made AFTER that search and someone WAS found worthy. That shows us the movement of time.

A throne room WITHOUT Christ tp a throne room WITH Christ again shows us the movement of time.

The Holy Spirit IN the throne room, to a time when He was sent down, again shows us the movement of time.

Together, chapters 4 and 5 shows us TIMING. You can ignore all this and pull the first seals out of their context, and come up with the wrong answers: most people do. OR, you can use good exegesis and understand that God is giving is TIMING in these two chapters.

 

[iamlamad]

iamlamad,
...
3. There is no implication or proof that Jesus opened the seals after he ascended. If this is true then the Revelation is only for the church of the 7 churches of Asia of who they were written to originally. Of course this is not true and cannot be.

OF course there is proof - in black and white and perhaps red: but preconceptions have prevented you from seeing it.

No, the Revelation is for the church of ALL TIME. Why would you say such a thing? The first 5 seals cover the CHURCH AGE. Jerry, this is not a difficult concept! If you study the Olivet Discourse, we find parallels. Jesus covers the church age first, saying "the end is not yet." His meaning is clear: He was not yet speaking of "the end" times, but of the church age.

You want to jump over the church age and have John begin where we are NOW in time. It is not following the scriptures. It is poor exegesis.

If you study the 5th seal, they MUST be martyrs of the church age, for John has not yet started the time of judgment as seen at the 6th seal. Always remember, these seals are sealing a DOCUMENT. What is IN the document is what we read starting from chapter 8 onward. In other words, no trumpet will be sounded (written inside the document) until all 7 seals are opened so the document itself can be opened.

God started right where John was, 95 AD, and took him on a very straight path down through time, through the church age, then through the 70th week, and then the millennial reign and on into eternity. Anyone that imagines Revelation is not chronological has not understood the book.

 

[jerry kelso]

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

.

baberean2,

1. Same untruth of the spiritual Israel.

2 I agree we are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
God’s spirit does reside in Heaven and Heaven has a temple.
He resides in us and we have churches where his presence and anointing are felt.
He is talking about the actual different realities of two different theocracies and I understand that and don’t disagree in that context. The Jewish theocracy was a full theocracy with only God at the helm personally and who they were responsible to as the mechanics of the law were much different than the auspices of church government of the body of Christ the head of the church.

2. This doesn’t do away with the fact of Israel’s callings and feasts and the involvement of sacrifices as a memorial in the millennial kingdom.

3. It is a fact that the Jews are doing everything to prepare temple service and sacrifices and rebuild the the temple.
It Is part of prophecy and it will cause a false gathering and will cease Revelation 11:1-2. The measuring of the temple is not just rebuild but is a rod of destruction as well.

4. There will be a millennial temple Ezekiel 40-48.
Daniel 12:11: And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away and the abomination that maketh desolate set up there shall be a 1290 days.
Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, unto 2300 then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. This was in answer to verse 13 concerning the vision concerning the daily sacrifice and the transgression of desolation to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
A cleansing of the sanctity is the cleansing of the temple.

5. It is true we are of a Heavenly calling concerning the Jews and gentiles in one body alike.
This doesn’t discard the nation of Israel’s gifts and callings in the millennial kingdom for it is their earthly calling.
The church being called the spiritual Israel of God is fine since we are grafted into the olive tree. But to make it a replacement Theology to keep their nation coming to God to fulfill their gifts and calling is not scriptural.

6. The allegory of Galatians 4 is mainly about the difference of law and grace starting with v21; Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do not ye hear the law.
Earthly Jerusalem is in bondage and Heavenly Jerusalem is free for this is where being a new creature comes from where the risen Christ lives.
The grafted church is to make the nation of Israel jealous for God Read Romans 11.

7. So once you and your teachers do not understand the whole plan of God and how it is to unfold for you think everything ende with the church age saints.
Jerusalem may still be backslidden from God but they still are the apple of his eye and he will keep his unconditional eternal covenants as soon as the generation fulfills the condition of repentance as a nation. Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

Jerusalem may still be backslidden from God but they still are the apple of his eye and he will keep his unconditional eternal covenants as soon as the generation fulfills the condition of repentance as a nation.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

.

 

[jerry kelso]

It is my guess that the 144,000 will be preaching the Kingdom gospel. But John does not tell us this.

Revelation had the same meaning to them as it has to us: it has not changed. TIME has changed, but we are still in the same age of grace that they lived in. They had no idea when Jesus would return. I think Paul thought for a while it would be during his lifetime. I suspect those in 95 AD thought the same thing. We. looking back, can see almost 2000 years of time in which He did NOT return. But we are in the same church age.

WE know, looking back, that the fullness of the Gentiles is STILL not in, but you are right, they couldn't see the future. But then, we won't know the day that verse will be fulfilled either! So we are in the same place they were: waiting for that day.

I agree, we must use good exegesis. When I read that John did NOT see Jesus at the Father's right hand, when there are a dozen verses telling us that is where He should have been in 95 AD, I take note of that. Then when I see the Holy Spirit still in the throne room in chapter 4, But sent down as soon as Jesus ascended, I take note of that too. And when I add to that, a search was made to find one worthy, but that first search that John got to see ended in failure, I must take note of that too.

It took me a long time to see timing there, and the movement of time, but now I see it very clearly. A search was made that ended in failure, but another search was made AFTER that search and someone WAS found worthy. That shows us the movement of time.

A throne room WITHOUT Christ tp a throne room WITH Christ again shows us the movement of time.

The Holy Spirit IN the throne room, to a time when He was sent down, again shows us the movement of time.

Together, chapters 4 and 5 shows us TIMING. You can ignore all this and pull the first seals out of their context, and come up with the wrong answers: most people do. OR, you can use good exegesis and understand that God is giving is TIMING in these two chapters.

Iamlamad,

1. What scriptures say Christ has to be at the right hand of the father all the time?
John saw Christ in the middle of the candlesticks and he wasn’t at the Fathers right hand in Revelation 1.
Acts 7:55-60 Stephen saw Jesus stand at the right hand of the father. Why? It made the people even madder because they knew they were doing wrong and Stephen ask God to lay not their sin at his charge.
When Christ is at the mercy seat interceding is he at the right hand of the Father?
You will have to give your scripture about the right hand of God and why Jesus has to be there every single time in scripture.

2. The Seven Spirits of God Revelation 4:5; 5:6.
The Holy Spirit never leaves the earth for no man can come to God without the Spirit drawing him and we know there are people saved Revelation 6:9-11; 13:7 etc.

3. Your movement is not very clear about what significance movement in time has and means.
The Holy Spirit doesn’t come down to earth when he is already there.
Unless you can clarify more about timing to prove the first five seals you are just contriving and wrongly deducing scripture.
Clarify!!! Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

.

baberean2,

1. What does this have to do with the price of eggs in China?

2. The two witnesses laying in the streets of Jerusalem dead will also rise to Heaven from that same place. What is your point? Jerry kelso

 

[Riberra]

1. There’s no limiting to the future from Revelation 4 for God has order.

Revelation 4 and Revelation 5 have no prophecy in it ....I think that Lamad got it right ,the timing about the description of the Throne room of God in Heaven of Revelation 4 is few moments before Jesus ascended to Heaven ...in Revelation 5 Jesus arrive in the throne room and is found worthy to open the seals..Remember the whole thing is a VISION ....John said immediately i was in the spirit Revelation 4:1-2...the same thing that he said in Revelation 1

The tribulation is basically for the restoration of the Nation of Israel Daniel 9:24-27

The problem with your interpretation is that Daniel 9:23-27 have ben entirely fulfilled in the time of Jesus and the apostles..

The purpose of the millennial kingdom is to put down all sin and rebellion 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. And after death and hell are gone forever Revelation 20:12-15.
And the eternal state is found in Revelation 21-22. There is no limit.

Agreed.

2. The people in John’s day wouldn’t necessarily mean they would understand everything for they would not they really couldn’t.

True ....the things who concerned the first Christians in the time of John was Revelation 2 and Revelation 3 ...the address about a Judgment of God to happen soon upon the 7 Churches that were in existence in the time of John.

Why?
The Bible says knowledge will increase.

Knowledge in science does not help to understand Biblical prophecies...The knowledge must be taken by observation from historic record ...Example: we can safely say that the time of Jacob's Troubles for the Jews have happened in 70 AD ...We can safely say that Daniel 9:23-27 have been entirely fulfilled in the time of Jesus and the Apostles.

We can safely say that Daniel 7 prophecy about the LITTLE HORN correspond to Revelation 13 and is still yet to come in a still unknown time in the future.

 

[jerry kelso]

Revelation 4 and Revelation 5 have no prophecy in it ....I think that Lamad got it right ,the timing about the description of the Throne room of God in Heaven of Revelation 4 is few moments before Jesus ascended to Heaven ...in Revelation 5 Jesus arrive in the throne room and is found worthy to open the seals..Remember the whole thing is a VISION ....John said immediately i was in the spirit Revelation 4:1-2...the same thing that he said in Revelation 1


The problem with your interpretation is that Daniel 9:23-27 have ben entirely fulfilled in the time of Jesus and the apostles..

Agreed.

True ....the things who concerned the first Christians in the time of John was Revelation 2 and Revelation 3 ...the address about a Judgment of God to happen soon upon the 7 Churches that were in existence in the time of John.


Knowledge in science does not help to understand Biblical prophecies...The knowledge must be taken by observation from historic record ...Example: we can safely say that the time of Jacob's Troubles for the Jews have happened in 70 AD ...We can safely say that Daniel 9:23-27 have been entirely fulfilled in the time of Jesus and the Apostles.

We can safely say that Daniel 7 prophecy about the LITTLE HORN correspond to Revelation 13 and is still yet to come in a still unknown time in the future.

riberra,

1. Revelation 4 and 5 are still prophetical for the church has not been raptured.
The things hereafter are after the church age.
Lamas is not right according to the context.

2. A few moments before Christ ascended?
That is nowhere implied and is mere conjecture and is being contrived into the context which results in one’s opinion.
You are just trying to uphold a historical context in your eschatological view.

3. History repeats itself is a fact that Solomon believed.
Revelation 2 and 3 is addressed to the 7 churches of Asia because of the conditions of the church that are repeated in any age. Even as the 7 church period is very interesting how it lines up with the same conditions in different periods of ages that is very convincing.
But the biggest reason is because the church age will be raptured. Why?
One is the rapture was a mystery of living and dead in Christ.
The Old Testament saints only knew the resurrection of the dead. I have already shown the scriptures for this.
Another reason is our time right now is to suffer and we shall reign in the millennial kingdom.
The tribulation is for Israel and it’s restoration especially the last 3.5 years which is called the time of Jacob’s trouble, though there will be gentile believers saved.

4. Exegete your position of the first five seals.

5. Judgement on some but not for the overcomers.

6. My usage of knowledge was not about science.
Knowledge can be gleaned from history. But I was speaking the closer we get to the tribulation etc. we will see much more from our own eyes especially because of the speed of technology.

7. Daniel 9:23-27 we’re not fulfilled in Jesus Day.
Verse 24 is talking to Israel and it’s restoration. It was to happen at the cross Jeremiah 31:31-34, but the nation rejected Christ Matthew 23:37-39 and Jesus pronounced Judgement on Israel which the temple would be destroyed and the nation would cease which turned out to be 70 A.D.
Acts 1:6-7 shows the KoH was finished and only God knew the time.
The False Spiritual Israel to the extreme doctrine and because the church was basically all Israel is the reason for this confusion about Daniel 9: 24-27 being past when it’s not.
Israel has to be purified in the time of Jacob’s trouble.
Jesus Day was Old Testament and the law and the KoH and the KoG message. The apostles was New Covenant, the New Covenant Church and the message of the death burial and resurrection of Christ. They were two different ages with two different messages and goals.
They must be kept separate to understand the real truth.
The restoration of the KoH reign was the goal in Jesus Day.
The church was about to evangelize the whole world, make the nation of Israel jealous for God, has a Heavenly calling but all is suffering now to reign in the future earthly reign 2 Timothy 2:12.

8. Daniel 7, the Little Horn and Revelation 13 about the Beast are the same as the Antichrist and is future.
Jerry Kelso

 

[Riberra]

riberra,

1. Revelation 4 and 5 are still prophetical for the church has not been raptured.

Where do you see the word RAPIEMUR in Revelation 4 and Revelation 5 ?...
The text is about John who have seen in a VISION a scenery of the Throne Room of God in Heaven while he was in the spirit...John body have never quit the Patmos Island...What John describe in Revelation 4 and Revelation 5 are Celestials beings :..Angels...the Four Beasts ...the 24 Elders sitting on 24 Thrones.

2. A few moments before Christ ascended?

The fact that they were searching for someone worthy to open the seals mean that Jesus was not there at that moment in Revelation 4 ...Jesus is seen in the throne room only in Revelation 5:6...

The things hereafter are after the church age.

No ,the things who is implying the church [example the martyrs]...until the Coming of Jesus in Glory ...You seem to believe that the Christians martyrs will begin only during the 42 months reign of the Antichrist [Revelation 13]...The Christians martyred for their testimony of Jesus begin in the first century...

You are just trying to uphold a historical context in your eschatological view.

3. History repeats itself is a fact that Solomon believed.
Revelation 2 and 3 is addressed to the 7 churches of Asia because of the conditions of the church that are repeated in any age. Even as the 7 church period is very interesting how it lines up with the same conditions in different periods of ages that is very convincing.

That is not about 7 churches ages ...

But the biggest reason is because the church age will be raptured.

Can you show us a Bible verse saying that ?

Why?
One is the rapture was a mystery of living and dead in Christ.
The Old Testament saints only knew the resurrection of the dead. I have already shown the scriptures for this.

The mystery is that the few believers who will still be alive unto the Coming of Jesus in Glory will not know death but will be changed into immortality ...

Another reason is our time right now is to suffer and we shall reign in the millennial kingdom.

Can you describe how living today cause suffering ?Are you talking about the Christians who are martyred for their faith in Muslim countries ?

The tribulation is for Israel and it’s restoration especially the last 3.5 years which is called the time of Jacob’s trouble, though there will be gentile believers saved.

No one who will worship the Beast and his image and who will take the mark of the beast will be saved Revelation 14:9-13...there will not be any new believers during the tribulation but actual Christians who will massively depart from the Faith [APOSTASY]long before the 42 months reign of the Beast.

8. Daniel 7, the Little Horn and Revelation 13 about the Beast are the same as the Antichrist and is future.

Yes ,that is exactly what i said ...

 

[seventysevens]

Where do you see the word RAPIEMUR in Revelation 4 and Revelation 5 ?...
.

RAPIEMUR is Not in Matt 24 either

The fact that they were searching for someone worthy to open the seals mean that Jesus was not there at that moment in Revelation 4

Yes He was He was at the center of the Throne surrounded by the 24 elders and the 4 living creatures

No one who will worship the Beast and his image and who will take the mark of the beast will be saved Revelation 14:9-13...there will not be any new believers during the tribulation but actual Christians who will massively depart from the Faith [APOSTASY]long before the 42 months reign of the Beast.

No is not at all what it says , you have a major misunderstanding there !
Christians who will massively depart from the Faith is a false interpretation and does not fit the narrative of the text at all , there is no text anywhere that says Christians will massively depart from the faith , in truth the apostasy in the manner you are trying to imply is happening now as people turn away from sound doctrine believing things that are not in line with biblical text. The Beast who is the false messiah is the great delusion/deception that Almighty God has sent to cause those who reject Jesus as Messiah to believe in a false messiah -falsely believing that the true messiah has come .

The reason Jesus calls that time frame the "hour of temptation" is because the the false messiah has pushed forth the agenda to cause people to worship himself as God and pushes people to accept the mark of the Beast and if they don't people won't be permitted to buy food or have electricity or have a job without the mark . Facing starvation people will be overcome with fear of starving to death and will do anything to get food , the foolish notion that Christians abandon their faith in Christ Jesus if the harpazo did not happen before the GT is a false notion and makes no sense - for if that be the case then those people were not genuine Christians to begin with because no true Christian thinks like that ! But when people face starvation and cannot live in the customary manner that they have lived all their life may fall into the temptation of accepting the mark in order to avoid starvation and save their babies from starvation.
IF there would be any departing away from the faith ,it would be due the fact they do not have the necessities of life to carry on and submit to accepting the mark

People who live during that time who simply do not believe in any religion being eye witnesses to these events may very well repent and accept Jesus as Messiah , if they ask Jesus forgiveness Jesus will forgive them , the scripture text states that those who have knowingly rejected Jesus as messiah will fall into the deceptive delusion of the false messiah and do as the false messiah has commanded, but that does not mean it is not possible for people to ask Jesus forgiveness , but it may well be their pride prevents them from doing so

 

[BABerean2]

The reason Jesus calls that time frame the "hour of temptation" is because the the false messiah has pushed forth the agenda to cause people to worship himself as God and pushes people to accept the mark of the Beast and if they don't people won't be permitted to buy food or have electricity or have a job without the mark . Facing starvation people will be overcome with fear of starving to death and will do anything to get food , the foolish notion that Christians abandon their faith in Christ Jesus if the harpazo did not happen before the GT is a false notion and makes no sense - for if that be the case then those people were not genuine Christians to begin with because no true Christian thinks like that ! But when people face starvation and cannot live in the customary manner that they have lived all their life may fall into the temptation of accepting the mark in order to avoid starvation and save their babies from starvation.
IF there would be any departing away from the faith ,it would be due the fact they do not have the necessities of life to carry on and submit to accepting the mark

Those below do not fall into temptation and accept the mark.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

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[seventysevens]

Those below do not fall into temptation and accept the mark.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

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They after the harpazo has happened they realized they had been unwise and decided to become wise and repented of their sin and received Jesus as their savoir and accepted that they must not accept the mark and accept death in order to be with Jesus eternally.
I am sure that there has been times in your life where you realized that you made a bad choice and suffered a consequence as a result and you learned from your mistakes and the next time you chose the right thing knowing it was for the greater good so that you would not have to have any more regrets , sometimes the right choice is not a pleasant one

 

[BABerean2]

and repented of their sin and received Jesus as their savoir

That would make those in Revelation 12:11 members of the New Covenant Church.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

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[seventysevens]

Yes repenting Jews in Israel that realized that Jesus IS the true Messiah will be accepted into the church

That would make those in Revelation 12:11 members of the New Covenant Church.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

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