Are Protestants dead?

[Righttruth]

But according to Scripture, he is God.
He was with God in the beginning - John 1:2, John 17:5, 1 John 1:1.
All things were created through him - John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2. He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, Revelation 1:8, 22:13.
He was appointed as the Saviour before the creation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20.
The Jews believed that he claimed to be God, tried to stone him to death, John 8:59, John 10:33 and crucified him for blasphemy.
Jesus was raised from the dead to show that everything he had said, done and claimed was true - otherwise he would have been left in the tomb; a false Messiah and dishonest man. If he was lying and dishonest, he would not have been perfect, as Peter said, and could not have died for our sins; he would have been dying for his own. We would therefore have no Saviour.

Why Scripture? According to Jesus' own admission, He was and is the Son of God. Don't you believe in Jesus and His words? More number of verses can be shown than what you have indicated to indicate that He is the Son of God.

 

[Righttruth]

Luke 22:19

Here’s the original Greek with strong’s reference numbers. I’m not sure what versions your referring to but according to the original Greek it’s worded a little different but sill has the same exact meaning as my original post.

19 And having taken bread, having given thanks, he brake and gave to them, saying, ‘This is my body, that for you is being given, this do ye – to remembrance of me.’

19 καὶ (and) G2532 Conj λαβὼν (taken) G2983 V-APA-NMS ἄρτον (bread) G740 N-AMS εὐχαριστήσας (thanks) G2168 V-APA-NMS ἔκλασεν (broke) G2806 V-AIA-3S καὶ (and) G2532 Conj ἔδωκεν (gave) G1325 V-AIA-3S αὐτοῖς (them) G846 PPro-DM3P λέγων (saying) G3004 V-PPA-NMS Τοῦτό (this) G3778 DPro-NNS ἐστιν (is) G1510 V-PI-3S τὸ (which) G3588 Art-NNS σῶμά (body) G4983 N-NNS μου (my) G1473 PPro-G1S τὸ (which) G3588 Art-NNS ὑπὲρ (for) G5228 Prep ὑμῶν (you) G4771 PPro-G2P διδόμενον (gave) G1325 V-PPM/P-NNS τοῦτο (this) G3778 DPro-ANS ποιεῖτε (do) G4160 V-PMA-2P εἰς (of) G1519 Prep τὴν (which) G3588 Art-AFS ἐμὴν (me) G1699 PPro-AF1S ἀνάμνησιν (remembrance) G364 N-AFS

There is a footnote in my NASB that says that this is not found in some early manuscripts.

 

[Righttruth]

You have not properly discerned the book of John.

I have done to the best of my ability without any prejudices.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There is a footnote in my NASB that says that this is not found in some early manuscripts.

Yes friend it is not found in Matthew & Mark. If it was not in Luke before and it is now that would be very disturbing indeed.

 

[Righttruth]

This is also affirmed in 1 Corinthians 11:24

“and gave thanks to God for it. Then he broke it in pieces and said, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.””
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:24‬

It is not affirmed by the apostles who were present during the Last Supper.

 

[Righttruth]

Yes friend it is not found in Matthew & Mark. If it was not in Luke before and it is now that would be very disturbing indeed.

That happens in all religions with the passage of time.

 

[Righttruth]

So you don't believe a fundamental Christine doctrine about the deity of Christ, but you're lecturing us about unessential matters such as the buildings we meet in for worship, and the gender of the person leading worship?

Why bother, if Jesus is not God?

I believe in the deity of Christ, and He is the Son of God with authority bestowed to Him to forgive and to plead for the salvation of a human soul

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is not affirmed by the apostles who were present during the Last Supper.

So your saying Luke and 1 Corinthians aren’t inspired writings?

 

[BNR32FAN]

That happens in all religions with the passage of time.

Actually when eyewitnesses of crimes and accidents give their statements to the police they very seldom match exactly. There are always subtle differences. Police actually expect this.

 

[Righttruth]

So your saying Luke and 1 Corinthians aren’t inspired writings?

Anything for that matter should be substantiated by other sources, particularly with the words of Jesus as recorded in the Gospel books that too by the apostles or who were close to the Lord from the beginning of the Jerusalem church

 

[Righttruth]

Actually when eyewitnesses of crimes and accidents give their statements to the police they very seldom match exactly. There are always subtle differences. Police actually expect this.

Then the imagine the passage of time and many translations and versions

 

[Strong in Him]

Why Scripture? According to Jesus' own admission, He was and is the Son of God. Don't you believe in Jesus and His words? More number of verses can be shown than what you have indicated to indicate that He is the Son of God.

Of course he's the Son of God, he's still divine though.

And I find it rather strange that a Christian should ask, "why Scripture?"
What did you expect me to quote from; the book of Mormon?

 

[Strong in Him]

I believe in the deity of Christ, and He is the Son of God with authority bestowed to Him to forgive and to plead for the salvation of a human soul

So you do believe that Jesus is God?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Anything for that matter should be substantiated by other sources, particularly with the words of Jesus as recorded in the Gospel books that too by the apostles or who were close to the Lord from the beginning of the Jerusalem church

So you do believe Luke and 1 Corinthians weren’t inspired writings then. Because that’s what your saying. Unless you believe that inspired writings can be incorrect. If that’s the case then with God made a mistake or Luke and Paul weren’t inspired by the Holy Spirit when they composed their writings. Oh and by the way. Nobody substantiated the bread of life discourse. Only John mentions it. Is that also not inspired?

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you don't believe a fundamental Christine doctrine about the deity of Christ, but you're lecturing us about unessential matters such as the buildings we meet in for worship, and the gender of the person leading worship?

Why bother, if Jesus is not God?

In the beginning the Word was with God and also in the beginning the Word was God. It’s a past tense sentence. You wouldn’t say in the beginning the Word is God. That would be incorrect grammar.

Sorry I replied to the wrong person.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No Jesus is the Son of God, not fully God, though He was fully Man. Word was, not is, God

In the beginning the Word was with God and also in the beginning the Word was God. It’s a past tense sentence. You wouldn’t say in the beginning the Word is God. That would be incorrect grammar.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Q: Are "Protestants" spiritually dead because they do not practice/believe in the RCC doctrine of "transubstantiation"?

A: No.
Transubstantiation is, according to the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, the change of substance by which the bread and the wine offered in the sacrifice of the sacrament of the Eucharist during the Mass, become, in reality, the physical Body and Blood of Jesus the Christ.

Dictionary : TRANSUBSTANTIATION


Transubstantiation and the "Real Presence" doctirnes of the RCC are not Biblically supported.

Transubstantiation and the Real Presence | CARM.org

 

[Ron Gurley]

The ordinance of the "last supper' given by Jesus the Christ:

Luke 22:19
And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

1 Corinthians 11:24-25
and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

John 6 is primarily a metaphor, not to be read, applied literally.

 

[Eloy Craft]

We are saved by grace through, it is a gift, not by works, so no one can boast. Jesus did the work on the cross. All He asks us to do is repent (turn to God), believe in Him, that He died for our sins and rose on the 3rd day and we will be saved. Jesus repeated this concept times - BELIEVE IN ME AND YOU WILL HAVE LIFE.

It's a gift yes. Saved by Grace yup. Yes Jesus did His work on the cross. Yet He tells us to pick up ours and follow Him. You think He means to do that to be be cleansed or to be pure? See, a heart that is inclined to sin can't be pure. Are you claiming a pure heart because that is necessary to be able to see God.
Matt. 5
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.


The ALL He asked us to do part of this is very general very vague and a lot is missing for it to really mean all.. That happens when the Scripture quoted is adapted to a narrower meaning in order to exclude the broader meaning that harmonizes with ALL the Scriptures. For example you keep defining what cleansed is but you exclude Scripture that conflicts with what you want 'clean' top mean. Once clean always clean isn't what Jesus taught.

John 15:3
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

You are clean but not purged. Your combining of the two words seems to be an attempt to deny the idea that the word purge is something more than cleansed. It means to be purified. If it weren't the following scripture would apply to it too. But to be purified means removal of sin that is not removed when cleansed. Scriptures attest to the fact that sin remains after cleansing.

John 15:6

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Jesus teaches that after one is clean they can still be cast off and burned.

Catholics believe in a faith plus works salvation. Its ridden with guilt, insecurity, thinking there is something more that is required if us. We could not keep the Law, so Christ fulfilled it for us. Your sins are cleansed when believe.

It's apparent to me that you don't understand what I believe and cling to preconceived ideas of what I believe no matter how much scripture I post that ends up ignored. For instance the scripture I posted above. Tell me how cleansed means once saved always saved but include that scripture.

God dwells outside our physical realm. He is not confined to time, a physical dimension. At the moment of your cleansing, its as if you were transported back in time, your sins were nailed to the cross, Christ died for All your sins. When you are cleansed, baptized by the Holy Spirit, you are in Christ forever. You are sealed by the Holy Spirit, SAVED. You our in the Kingdom of Heaven.

You are preaching to the choir here. But tell me, how is it that my sins are nailed to His cross? If you just post scriptures that doesn't work. Like you said we have two different theologies and that is the obstacle.

What you are confused about is the sins we continue to make throughout life. We are sanctified, purged of sin if you will in this life as we grow, we die to ourselves and our ways. Sometimes we return to them. go off the path and lose our way. We repent and turn back. These sins are not sins unto death. They do not have power over us, we have passed from death to life.

No I'm not confused about continuing to sin in life. You want to deny that it's possible to choose death over life even after you believe and have been clean. Yes there is a sin unto death

1 John 5

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Tell me why does he qualify unrighteousness with the word ALL? Why doesn't he just say unrighteousness?

This is different then how you were taught I know. I have to tell you, you are saved. Again sinsbdwell in the members of our flesh and when we die, our spirit becomes separate from our flesh and our spirit (purified of sin) goes to Heaven.

You're assumption about what I was taught is an ad hominem statement. A logical fallacy. An appeal to the authority of group thought.
What is the difference between your spirit and your soul? Is it you? and when it separates from you what happens to your soul? To the current you that can still sin? Do you feel the you that cannot sin and what does it feel like if you can ?

Christ has given the world salvation. I am being saved. My salvation is not yet complete. But thank you .

 

[Eloy Craft]

I’m sorry is that a question or a statement? If it was a question I would have to say it appears so. We also should take into consideration that this was probably the darkest time in history for the Roman church. I really hate to bring these things up but I think they are important to consider when discussing the doctrine of purgatory because the actions of the church during that time are directly related to its guidance or lack of. The inquisitions were also taking place during the time that the doctrine of purgatory was formulated. The church was arresting, imprisoning, torturing, and executing nonbelievers forcing them to convert to Catholicism. Jesus warned us of false prophets who are vicious wolves disguised as sheep. He said you can identify them by their actions. I will say however that I’m very glad that we don’t see this type of behavior in the RCC today. I am not saying that the RCC is a false religion or in any way attempting to attack the Roman church. It’s so hard to discuss these topics without being offensive and I’m honestly trying my best to avoid being offensive or impolite.

Lots of bad behavior yes. Many Catholics and clergy did bad things. But that doesn't address the doctrine. I will say that the Catholic Church is one and visible as the many fingers pointing at it proves.