Are Protestants dead?

[Righttruth]

There is no doubt that Jesus is fully God. In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word is God. ,

No Jesus is the Son of God, not fully God, though He was fully Man. Word was, not is, God

 

[Eloy Craft]

Paul said, to be absent the body is to be present with the Lord. We go directly to the Lord. Stephen was stoned to death and said, Jesus receive my spirit.

Stephen followed His Lord all the way to the cross. This path of suffering doesn't just clean you of sin. To clean is forgiveness of sin. One still is tempted to sin, right? One must drink the cup Jesus drank for the purging to happen on earth. Being present with the Lord in the afterlife one must be cleansed but who leaves the earth without the inclination to sin? Very few brother. Remember how Peter reacted to Jesus after the miracle of the the overflowing catch of fish? Peter said " move away from me Lord for I am a sinner". This is the condition of a soul who is saved but not yet able to enter heaven. Purgatory is the presence of the Lord in heaven and few souls are ready or able to meet Him face to face. I would think Paul was just about there with all His suffering. He was drinking the cup Jesus gave him on the Damascus road. If your sins are forgiven but your still inclined to sin that is because your soul isn't purged of what it's made of that likes to sin. Only a person who loves God and has been tried and tested, like Paul, can know they have no sinful inclination. Only then can one know they would never make a choice to cause a sinful inclination. Only they can be confident they are ready to see God.

How is that possible? Well we have a spiritual compartment which has been cleansed, likened to the Most Holy Place in the Old Temple. Our temple has a purified compartment where the Holy Spirit dwells. Think of it, God cannot dwell in a sin ridden body.

That spiritual part isn't purged even if it exists, especially if it just cleansed. Why would just this 'part' of you be cleansed? A part that can't even be said is you. Like faith without works, there is no reason to believe it exists if there is no evidence..

There is sin that doesn't break our bond with the Holy Spirit but there is sin unto death as the Apostle taught. I'm afraid there are a lot of misconceptions about human nature and Divine Nature in your theology.

Now, our soul is not the same as our spirit, otherwise the two could not be divided as scripture states in "The word of God is sharper than a two-edged sword

Our soul is our spirit. The word divides the sensitive powers of the soul and the intellect. Our flesh isn't able to sin. It's meat without the soul. Iniquity is of the soul.

The soul is the mind, will, emotions, the basic personality which is still part of our flesh. Sin dwells in the members of our flesh.

The flesh doesn't sin. The lower faculties of the soul are that which, like animals have an organic source. The higher faculties don't. This is the division that the Apostles taught as flesh and spirit. The soul is not a person. The soul can do nothing without a body. It no longer has the use of the material organs to properly order and perfect it's powers. Sin is in the soul ,if it were not, the body animated by it would not sin.

Ronald you should take a deeper look at traditional theology.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Ronald you should take a deeper look at traditional theology.

Lacking that, he should cool it with the neo-gnosticism.

 

[Strong in Him]

No Jesus is the Son of God, not fully God, though He was fully Man. Word was, not is, God

So you don't believe a fundamental Christine doctrine about the deity of Christ, but you're lecturing us about unessential matters such as the buildings we meet in for worship, and the gender of the person leading worship?

Why bother, if Jesus is not God?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus didn't say that.

“He took some bread and gave thanks to God for it. Then he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:19‬

 

[Righttruth]

So you don't believe a fundamental Christine doctrine about the deity of Christ, but you're lecturing us about unessential matters such as the buildings we meet in for worship, and the gender of the person leading worship?

Why bother, if Jesus is not God?

I go by the revelations through inspiration by the Holy Spirit. Accordingly, He is the Son of God.

 

[Righttruth]

“He took some bread and gave thanks to God for it. Then he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:19‬

Some ancient manuscripts do not contain 'which is given for you; do this in remembrance of me and entire v.20. In all probability, it is a later insertion. Jesus who fulfilled the Law, did not want any new ritual to start all over again. It is not recorded by those who were present during the Last Supper, namely, Matthew and John. Even Mark who got details from Peter did not record this. The Last Supper's spiritual significance is elaborated in John 6.

 

[Strong in Him]

I go by the revelations through inspiration by the Holy Spirit. Accordingly, He is the Son of God.

But according to Scripture, he is God.
He was with God in the beginning - John 1:2, John 17:5, 1 John 1:1.
All things were created through him - John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2. He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, Revelation 1:8, 22:13.
He was appointed as the Saviour before the creation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20.
The Jews believed that he claimed to be God, tried to stone him to death, John 8:59, John 10:33 and crucified him for blasphemy.
Jesus was raised from the dead to show that everything he had said, done and claimed was true - otherwise he would have been left in the tomb; a false Messiah and dishonest man. If he was lying and dishonest, he would not have been perfect, as Peter said, and could not have died for our sins; he would have been dying for his own. We would therefore have no Saviour.

 

[Albion]

But according to Scripture, he is God.

And may we also add that this is a "Christians only" forum, so that what you correctly said there shouldn't have to be said.

 

[Strong in Him]

And may we also add that this is a "Christians only" forum, so that what you correctly said there shouldn't have to be said.

True.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Some ancient manuscripts do not contain 'which is given for you; do this in remembrance of me and entire v.20. In all probability, it is a later insertion. Jesus who fulfilled the Law, did not want any new ritual to start all over again. It is not recorded by those who were present during the Last Supper, namely, Matthew and John. Even Mark who got details from Peter did not record this. The Last Supper's spiritual significance is elaborated in John 6.

Luke 22:19

Here’s the original Greek with strong’s reference numbers. I’m not sure what versions your referring to but according to the original Greek it’s worded a little different but sill has the same exact meaning as my original post.

19 And having taken bread, having given thanks, he brake and gave to them, saying, ‘This is my body, that for you is being given, this do ye – to remembrance of me.’

19 καὶ (and) G2532 Conj λαβὼν (taken) G2983 V-APA-NMS ἄρτον (bread) G740 N-AMS εὐχαριστήσας (thanks) G2168 V-APA-NMS ἔκλασεν (broke) G2806 V-AIA-3S καὶ (and) G2532 Conj ἔδωκεν (gave) G1325 V-AIA-3S αὐτοῖς (them) G846 PPro-DM3P λέγων (saying) G3004 V-PPA-NMS Τοῦτό (this) G3778 DPro-NNS ἐστιν (is) G1510 V-PI-3S τὸ (which) G3588 Art-NNS σῶμά (body) G4983 N-NNS μου (my) G1473 PPro-G1S τὸ (which) G3588 Art-NNS ὑπὲρ (for) G5228 Prep ὑμῶν (you) G4771 PPro-G2P διδόμενον (gave) G1325 V-PPM/P-NNS τοῦτο (this) G3778 DPro-ANS ποιεῖτε (do) G4160 V-PMA-2P εἰς (of) G1519 Prep τὴν (which) G3588 Art-AFS ἐμὴν (me) G1699 PPro-AF1S ἀνάμνησιν (remembrance) G364 N-AFS

 

[BNR32FAN]

Some ancient manuscripts do not contain 'which is given for you; do this in remembrance of me and entire v.20. In all probability, it is a later insertion. Jesus who fulfilled the Law, did not want any new ritual to start all over again. It is not recorded by those who were present during the Last Supper, namely, Matthew and John. Even Mark who got details from Peter did not record this. The Last Supper's spiritual significance is elaborated in John 6.

This is also affirmed in 1 Corinthians 11:24

“and gave thanks to God for it. Then he broke it in pieces and said, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.””
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:24‬

 

[Ronald]

Is it your position then that the Lord isn't in Purgatory?

It doesn't exist.
It's either to
1.Heaven or
2.Hades temporarily to await the final judgment of destruction in the Lake if Fire.
A person's destination is fixed at the moment of death. God has ordained within His plan to save us during this life or not. His elect are already chosen, written in the Book of Life. Christ's atonement was sufficient to cleanse sins! The idea that something else needs to be done is implying that His sacrifice was not enough. Its a gift, we receive it or reject it, there are no second chances - at least not in any of the 66 books that I read. Maybe in the Apocrpha? I don't know, I don't regard that as God's word.

 

[Ronald]

No Jesus is the Son of God, not fully God, though He was fully Man. Word was, not is, God

You have not properly discerned the book of John.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Out of all of Christianity only the RCC teaches purgatory. It’s quite a coincidence that the doctrine of purgatory was formulated exactly during the same time the Roman church was selling indulgences. The teaching of purgatory allowed the RCC to solicit more indulgences.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Hades temporarily to await the final judgment of destruction in the Lake if Fire.

Jesus went to Hades to free those in prison there. He has to do it again? Hades doesn't exist. Ever hear anyone talking about fear of Hades anymore?

 

[Eloy Craft]

Out of all of Christianity only the RCC teaches purgatory. It’s quite a coincidence that the doctrine of purgatory was formulated exactly during the same time the Roman church was selling indulgences. The teaching of purgatory allowed the RCC to solicit more indulgences.

That seems like an ad hominim statement. I mean without substantiating the claim
that the doctine is developing for nefarious reasons?

 

[Ronald]

Stephen followed His Lord all the way to the cross. This path of suffering doesn't just clean you of sin. To clean is forgiveness of sin. One still is tempted to sin, right? One must drink the cup Jesus drank for the purging to happen on earth. Being present with the Lord in the afterlife one must be cleansed but who leaves the earth without the inclination to sin? Very few brother. Remember how Peter reacted to Jesus after the miracle of the the overflowing catch of fish? Peter said " move away from me Lord for I am a sinner". This is the condition of a soul who is saved but not yet able to enter heaven. Purgatory is the presence of the Lord in heaven and few souls are ready or able to meet Him face to face. I would think Paul was just about there with all His suffering. He was drinking the cup Jesus gave him on the Damascus road. If your sins are forgiven but your still inclined to sin that is because your soul isn't purged of what it's made of that likes to sin. Only a person who loves God and has been tried and tested, like Paul, can know they have no sinful inclination. Only then can one know they would never make a choice to cause a sinful inclination. Only they can be confident they are ready to see God.

That spiritual part isn't purged even if it exists, especially if it just cleansed. Why would just this 'part' of you be cleansed? A part that can't even be said is you. Like faith without works, there is no reason to believe it exists if there is no evidence..

There is sin that doesn't break our bond with the Holy Spirit but there is sin unto death as the Apostle taught. I'm afraid there are a lot of misconceptions about human nature and Divine Nature in your theology.

Our soul is our spirit. The word divides the sensitive powers of the soul and the intellect. Our flesh isn't able to sin. It's meat without the soul. Iniquity is of the soul.

The flesh doesn't sin. The lower faculties of the soul are that which, like animals have an organic source. The higher faculties don't. This is the division that the Apostles taught as flesh and spirit. The soul is not a person. The soul can do nothing without a body. It no longer has the use of the material organs to properly order and perfect it's powers. Sin is in the soul ,if it were not, the body animated by it would not sin.

Ronald you should take a deeper look at traditional theology.

We come from two different schools of theology. We are saved by grace through, it is a gift, not by works, so no one can boast. Jesus did the work on the cross. All He asks us to do is repent (turn to God), believe in Him, that He died for our sins and rose on the 3rd day and we will be saved. Jesus repeated this concept times - BELIEVE IN ME AND YOU WILL HAVE LIFE.
Catholics believe in a faith plus works salvation. Its ridden with guilt, insecurity, thinking there is something more that is required if us. We could not keep the Law, so Christ fulfilled it for us. Your sins are cleansed when believe. God dwells outside our physical realm. He is not confined to time, a physical dimension. At the moment of your cleansing, its as if you were transported back in time, your sins were nailed to the cross, Christ died for All your sins. When you are cleansed, baptized by the Holy Spirit, you are in Christ forever. You are sealed by the Holy Spirit, SAVED. You our in the Kingdom of Heaven.
What you are confused about is the sins we continue to make throughout life. We are sanctified, purged of sin if you will in this life as we grow, we die to ourselves and our ways. Sometimes we return to them. go off the path and lose our way. We repent and turn back. These sins are not sins unto death. They do not have power over us, we have passed from death to life.
This is different then how you were taught I know. I have to tell you, you are saved. Again sinsbdwell in the members of our flesh and when we die, our spirit becomes separate from our flesh and our spirit (purified of sin) goes to Heaven.
Remember, God cannot dwell in a temple filled with sin. You spiritual part of you is cleansed, like the Most Holy Place.

 

[thecolorsblend]

It's either to
1.Heaven or
2.Hades temporarily to await the final judgment of destruction in the Lake if Fire.

The reality of Purgatory doesn't change that paradigm.

A person's destination is fixed at the moment of death.

The reality of Purgatory doesn't argue against that proposition.

Christ's atonement was sufficient to cleanse sins!

The reality of Purgatory is not an argument against that proposition either.

The idea that something else needs to be done is implying that His sacrifice was not enough.

The reality of Purgatory is not "something else" added to Our Lord's sacrifice.

Its a gift, we receive it or reject it, there are no second chances

Purgatory is not a "second chance"

at least not in any of the 66 books that I read.

Mine has 73 books. Looks somebody shortened yours.

 

[W2L]

Its sad that Catholics must go to purgatory. Protestants dont go there.