The Scriptural documentation of the Pre-trib Rapture of the Church and its timing

[ChristIsSovereign]

With the above false claims you have accused me of, you are a flat out liar! Show me anywhere I have ever made amy claim that Jesus is not the Son of God, whom the Father calls God, or Lord, as recorded in Ps.46:6-7 100:1 and Heb.1:8-9 {I will confirm these Scriptures when I have finished writing this, because I am posting it from memory now].

That I am an anti Trinitarian, comes directly from the Bible, which I can easily provide. However, I have chosen NOT to discuss it here on this site, in order to avoid needless conflict or posting something the management team forbids.

No one here has my permission to post or to gossip about what I have posted on my own site, where this has come from. Anyone who wants to discuss the issue with me is invited to come to my site where I will be happy to take you on.


Quasar92

John 1:1 is proof that Jesus is God, not just the Son of God.

 

[Quasar92]

Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Joh 19:35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Joh 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.



Joh 19:36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "NOT ONE OF HIS BONES SHALL BE BROKEN."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED." ( NKJV) (Old Testament text Uppercase)


If you think Zechariah 12:10 was not fulfilled at Calvary, then either the Apostle John is wrong in verse 37 above, or you are wrong.


The exact text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in the passage below. In the NKJV the Old Testament text is in Uppercase letters.
No unbiased reader could ever deny it.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


The New Covenant: Bob George

.

There isn't one single thing in your above post providing Scriptural support that Israel has ever accepted Jesus as their Messiah. Zech.12:10 or Zech.14:4-5, HAS NOT YET BEEN FULFILLED! You obviously DO NOT have the gift of Prophecy, and continually shoot yourself in the foot!

Go to anyone who belongs to the Jews for Jesus ministry you support [Which I have done for 50 years] and learn from them about the condition of their people, which will fully support what I have been telling you all along!


Quasar92

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

I'm not participating in this thread anymore. My patience has run out and I need to commune with the LORD before I sleep. Thread unwatched.

 

[jgr]

.

 

[Quasar92]

Not hardly.


In Jeremiah 33, below, the Branch of righteousness is the Lord Himself, who entered this world as Jesus.

When the Jews eventually accept Jesus, who is not just a man, they will not want a "man" as the King of Israel any more. Nor the Levites want a "man" as the high priest to do the former sacrifices - as Jesus is the High Priest and Him, the perfect sacrifice.

Back when the Jews demanded a man-king, they were rejecting God as their King. This is also in 1Samuel12:12. When Jesus returns, He the Lord God Almighty will sit upon the throne of Israel, which is rightfully His. And they will not want a man to sit on that throne ever again.


Jeremiah 33:
14. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.

15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

Not hardly.


In Jeremiah 33, below, the Branch of righteousness is the Lord Himself, who entered this world as Jesus.

When the Jews eventually accept Jesus, who is not just a man, they will not want a "man" as the King of Israel any more. Nor the Levites want a "man" as the high priest to do the former sacrifices - as Jesus is the High Priest and Him, the perfect sacrifice.

Back when the Jews demanded a man-king, they were rejecting God as their King. This is also in 1Samuel12:12. When Jesus returns, He the Lord God Almighty will sit upon the throne of Israel, which is rightfully His. And they will not want a man to sit on that throne ever again.


Jeremiah 33:
14. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.

15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

Your above post is full of assunptions from a lay eschatology speculator. FYI, Jesus is the person who will sit on the throne of David, recorded in Acts 2:29-30 and 15:16. God Almighty will never sit on it. Jesus IS NOT God Almighty. They are two very separate entities, as recorded in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35.

As I previously posted, the 24 Elders around the throne of God with full Scriptural support:

>>>Who are the twenty four Elders around the throne of God in Rev.4:4 ?

The twenty four Elders around the throne of God, represent the twenty four courses of the Levitical priesthood, with one priest for each course seated on each of the twenty four thrones.

As recorded in 1 Chr.24:7-18. In Jer.33:17-18: "For this is what the Lord says: 'David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of Israel, NOR WILL THE PRIESTS, who are Levites ever fail to have before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to present sacrifices.'" See also 2 Sam.7 for God's promise to David.<<<

Let me see your Scrip[tural support for any other view you may attempt proving the above to be wrong!


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

John 1:1 is proof that Jesus is God, not just the Son of God.

The words John used need qualifying as to what he specifically meant when he said, "in the beginning!" The beginning was when the Holy Spirit produced Him by the virgin Mary, in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:32, 35. He was not the Son of God during OT times, nor was He, as such, God, as the Scriptures make abundantly clear in Is.43, 44 and 45.


Quasar92

 

[ChristIsSovereign]

The words John used need qualifying as to what he specifically meant when he said, "in the beginning!" The beginning was when the Holy Spirit produced Him by the virgin Mary, in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:32, 35. He was not the Son of God during OT times, nor was He, as such, God, as the Scriptures make abundantly clear in Is.43, 44 and 45.


Quasar92

What about the Ancient Greek word Elohim in the very opening of Genesis?

 

[BABerean2]

There isn't one single thing in your above post providing Scriptural support that Israel has ever accepted Jesus as their Messiah. Zech.12:10 or Zech.14:4-5, HAS NOT YET BEEN FULFILLED! You obviously DO NOT have the gift of Prophecy, and continually shoot yourself in the foot!

Go to anyone who belongs to the Jews for Jesus ministry you support [Which I have done for 50 years] and learn from them about the condition of their people, which will fully support what I have been telling you all along!


Quasar92

Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.

Get a dictionary and look up the word "remnant".

.

 

[Douggg]

Let me see your Scrip[tural support for any other view you may attempt proving the above to be wrong!

It's not hard. You are using the NIV for Jeremiah 33. The KJV for Jeremiah 33 reads differently and makes more sense. It is talking about in the messianic era, when Jesus returns, when Jerusalem shall dwell safely and Judah saved. At that time, during the messianic era - they are not going to want a man king like in the past, and currently do, in wanting someone other than Jesus as the messiah and are going to get the Antichrist.

Jeremiah 33:
15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

_______________________________________________________________________

Back in 1Samuel10:19, the Israelites wanted a man-king like the surrounding nations. God was their King, but they rejected Him, so says God through Samuel.

19 And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.

1Samuel12:12

12 And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the LORD your God was your king.

Jesus IS NOT God Almighty.

The Lord of Heaven (1Corinthians15:47) entered this world to become Jesus, adding to his being God to also becoming a man. Do you think some man created man - Adam and Eve, and the angels, heaven, and the cosmos? Who do you say Jesus is?

Jesus is God Almighty.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelaton 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[Douggg]

The beginning was when the Holy Spirit produced Him by the virgin Mary, in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:32, 35. He was not the Son of God during OT times, nor was He, as such, God, as the Scriptures make abundantly clear in Is.43, 44 and 45.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[seventysevens]

By what grammatical convulsions can Messiah the Prince suddenly be transformed into a false messiah?

Show those verses to any English teacher on the planet, and he/she will tell you that the antecedent of the "he's" is Messiah the Prince.

Simple - you have mistaken the context of the passage-
Context is more important than grammar ,
When you start with the incorrect context and use correct grammar you will still come to the wrong conclusion
When you start with the correct context -you can use slang incorrect grammar and still have the correct understanding
But in this case I am not using incorrect grammar either - just reading the words found in scripture

 

[seventysevens]

At the time 2 Thessalonians was written there were, no doubt, some errors in the church, but there was no apostasy in the ordinary sense of the term. The churches were still true to the Lord. Paul is declaring that the Day of the Lord cannot come until there is a departure from the faith first. The Scriptures speak often of this coming apostasy."

The ordinary sense of the term ? in that sense the apostasy has already happened and continues to happen and will continue till the coming of the Lord , so we are no longer waiting on an apostasy to happen and the day of the Lord can happen at any time

 

[Quasar92]

What about the Ancient Greek word Elohim in the very opening of Genesis?

The person who later became the human Jesus, was the firstborn over all creation, as recorded in Col.1:15. God created the universe through Him, according to Heb.1:1-2. He was with God in the beginning, as found in John 1:2; 17:3 and 5.

Jesus and the Father are two very separate individuals, as recorded in the above, as well as in Jn.14:28 and the many places the Scriptures record the Father raising Jesus from the Dead. In addition to the many places Jesus 8s recorded praying to the Father. He did not become the human Jesus, and the Son of God, until recorded in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:32 and 35.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

King James Bible
John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I"

20 passages of Scripture documenting the Father raising Jesus from the dead:

24 Bible verses about God Raising Christ


Quasar92

 

[Ron Gurley]

Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

The "Second Coming" Doctrine is important.
It matters because Jesus the God-Man PROMISED to return!

The Second Coming is a central theme in the "WE BELIEVES"...of the Apostles / Nicene Creed.
It is primarily described in Revelation 19:11-16; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; Matthew 24: 29-31; 1 Thess. 4

PRECIOUS PROMISES:

John 14...Jesus' promises to his followers...The Upper Room Discourse....Jesus Comforts His Disciples
1 "Do not let your hearts be troubled.
Trust in God; trust also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you.
I am going there to prepare a place for you. (lots of room in heaven for believers!!)
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will COME BACK ("Second Coming!") and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
4 You know the way to the place where I am going." (Jesus ....the Way to the Father)

Matthew 24: 42,44...Jesus promises to His Followers:
..."keep watch"...So you also must be "ready", because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

Acts 1: 6-11...Angels' prophecy at The "Ascension"
9 After he said this, he was TAKEN UP before their very eyes, and a CLOUD hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the SKY as he was going,
when suddenly two men dressed in white (angels) stood beside them.
11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the SKY?
This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into HEAVEN, will COME BACK ("Second Coming!") in the same way you have (just) seen him go into HEAVEN."

1 Thessalonians 3:...in holiness before our God and Father at the (Second) coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.

2 Thessalonians 1:7
and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.

The "Rapture" (Latin=rapturo -the snatching) is defined as that moment when Jesus the Christ returns from Heaven to remove the "Church" / His "Bride" / All Believers, dead ..then living... in Christ/ from Planet Earth.
God the Holy Spirit will no longer restrain the "end times "/ "the day of the LORD".
Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air.
This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye.

The Rapture doctrine arises from interpretations of primarily 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54.

The "Second Coming" BEGINS at "end" of the Rapture event!

To the Church in Philadelphia:
Revelations 3:10...
10....I will also keep you from the hour of trial (great tribulation!) that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. 11 I am coming soon.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
10 and to wait for his Son from heaven,
whom he raised from the dead—Jesus,
who rescues us from the coming wrath...

The "Man of Lawlessness" appears BEFORE the Rapture / Second Coming
2 Thessalonians 2

Possible Time Line BUILT on >>>> Matthew 24:

1. Begin the birth of the "Church Age" of Grace...Pentecost...Acts 1 + 2

2. Jesus promises to be with us in Spirit until the "end of the age" Matthew 28 end

...ascends/descends from the Mount of Olives...Matt 20:20; Zechariah 14:4; Acts 1:11

3. Pre-Tribulation "Birth Pangs"...NOW!...Matthew 24: 4-8

4. Begin TRIBULATION...first 3.5 years of Daniel's 7 years (Chapters 11-12)

...rise of the anti-christ + REBUILD the TEMPLE! = his appearance in that TEMPLE...Matthew 24:9-20,22

...WHEN TRIBULATION begins? TIME Unknown!...Only the FATHER!

5. Rapture and Second Coming...finally to a throne in Jerusalem as King of Kings . 1 Thess 4: Revelation 20:6 (mid-trib)

6. Begin GREAT TRIBULATION...Last 3.5 years of Daniel's 7 years...leading up to Armageddon...Matthew 24:21-27

7. Begin the Millenium Reign...Satan Bound...Revelation 20...Jesus wins!

8. Planet Earth and unsaved inhabitants destroyed by fire. 2 Peter 3..."the day of the LORD".

9. New Heavens + New Earth + New Jerusalem = eternal spiritual realm...Revelation 21

 

[Quasar92]

It's not hard. You are using the NIV. The KJV reads differently and makes more sense. It is talking about in the messianic era, when Jesus returns. They are not going to want a man king like in the past, and currently do, in wanting someone other than Jesus as the messiah and are going to get the Antichrist.

15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

_______________________________________________________________________

Back in 1Samuel10:19, the Israelites wanted a man-king like the surrounding nations. God was their King, but they rejected Him, so says God through Samuel.

19 And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.

1Samuel12:12

12 And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the LORD your God was your king.

The Lord of Heaven (1Corinthians15:47) entered this world to become Jesus, adding to his being God to also becoming a man. Do you think some man created man - Adam and Eve, and the angels, heaven, and the cosmos? Who do you say Jesus is?

Jesus is God Almighty.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelaton 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Before I respond to this, I want you to provide the nbook and chapter numbers of verses you have quoted. Secondly, each subject you have addressed, I want you to provide precisely what it is in reference to, because you mix apples and oranges - the time frame each of them is connected with.

May I suggest you consider the use of several translations of the Bible, which will give you a much better idea of what the meaning of them are.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

The "Second Coming" Doctrine is important.
It matters because Jesus the God-Man PROMISED to return!

The Second Coming is a central theme in the "WE BELIEVES"...of the Apostles / Nicene Creed.
It is primarily described in Revelation 19:11-16; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; Matthew 24: 29-31; 1 Thess. 4

PRECIOUS PROMISES:

John 14...Jesus' promises to his followers...The Upper Room Discourse....Jesus Comforts His Disciples
1 "Do not let your hearts be troubled.
Trust in God; trust also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you.
I am going there to prepare a place for you. (lots of room in heaven for believers!!)
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will COME BACK ("Second Coming!") and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
4 You know the way to the place where I am going." (Jesus ....the Way to the Father)

Matthew 24: 42,44...Jesus promises to His Followers:
..."keep watch"...So you also must be "ready", because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

Acts 1: 6-11...Angels' prophecy at The "Ascension"
9 After he said this, he was TAKEN UP before their very eyes, and a CLOUD hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the SKY as he was going,
when suddenly two men dressed in white (angels) stood beside them.
11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the SKY?
This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into HEAVEN, will COME BACK ("Second Coming!") in the same way you have (just) seen him go into HEAVEN."

1 Thessalonians 3:...in holiness before our God and Father at the (Second) coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.

2 Thessalonians 1:7
and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.

The "Rapture" (Latin=rapturo -the snatching) is defined as that moment when Jesus the Christ returns from Heaven to remove the "Church" / His "Bride" / All Believers, dead ..then living... in Christ/ from Planet Earth.
God the Holy Spirit will no longer restrain the "end times "/ "the day of the LORD".
Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air.
This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye.

The Rapture doctrine arises from interpretations of primarily 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54.

The "Second Coming" BEGINS at "end" of the Rapture event!

To the Church in Philadelphia:
Revelations 3:10...
10....I will also keep you from the hour of trial (great tribulation!) that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. 11 I am coming soon.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
10 and to wait for his Son from heaven,
whom he raised from the dead—Jesus,
who rescues us from the coming wrath...

The "Man of Lawlessness" appears BEFORE the Rapture / Second Coming
2 Thessalonians 2

Possible Time Line BUILT on >>>> Matthew 24:

1. Begin the birth of the "Church Age" of Grace...Pentecost...Acts 1 + 2

2. Jesus promises to be with us in Spirit until the "end of the age" Matthew 28 end

...ascends/descends from the Mount of Olives...Matt 20:20; Zechariah 14:4; Acts 1:11

3. Pre-Tribulation "Birth Pangs"...NOW!...Matthew 24: 4-8

4. Begin TRIBULATION...first 3.5 years of Daniel's 7 years (Chapters 11-12)

...rise of the anti-christ + REBUILD the TEMPLE! = his appearance in that TEMPLE...Matthew 24:9-20,22

...WHEN TRIBULATION begins? TIME Unknown!...Only the FATHER!

5. Rapture and Second Coming...finally to a throne in Jerusalem as King of Kings . 1 Thess 4: Revelation 20:6 (mid-trib)

6. Begin GREAT TRIBULATION...Last 3.5 years of Daniel's 7 years...leading up to Armageddon...Matthew 24:21-27

7. Begin the Millenium Reign...Satan Bound...Revelation 20...Jesus wins!

8. Planet Earth and unsaved inhabitants destroyed by fire. 2 Peter 3..."the day of the LORD".

9. New Heavens + New Earth + New Jerusalem = eternal spiritual realm...Revelation 21

With reference to Rev.1911-16, pertaining to Jesus second coming, verse 14 is the raptured Church returning with Him; "Riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven."


Quasar92

 

[Douggg]

Before I respond to this, I want you to provide the nbook and chapter numbers of verses you have quoted. Secondly, each subject you have addressed, I want you to provide precisely what it is in reference to, because you mix apples and oranges - the time frame each of them is connected with.

I thought it was clear what chapter and verse and time frame. Nonetheless I went back and edited my post #49 that there should be no question as to what chapter and verse and time frame.

No matter what you say, there is not going to be a man descended from Adam sitting on the throne of King David ever again - except for the short time the Antichrist illegitimately is anointed as the King of Israel, by the false prophet.

There have only been three kings over united Israel. Saul (1Samuel10:1) and David (1Samuel16:13) - anointed by the prophet Samuel . Solomon by the prophet Nathan (1Kings1:34).

Also you can go talk to the Jews themselves, what they believe; and they believe the messiah, the King of Israel will be anointed by a known prophet. Which putting 2 and 2 together in regards to them expecting Elijah in tandem with the messianic age - the false prophet will likely claim to be Elijah - reincarnated. Jews also believe in reincarnation - something not shared by Christianity.

 

[jgr]

Simple - you have mistaken the context of the passage-
Context is more important than grammar ,
When you start with the incorrect context and use correct grammar you will still come to the wrong conclusion
When you start with the correct context -you can use slang incorrect grammar and still have the correct understanding
But in this case I am not using incorrect grammar either - just reading the words found in scripture

Nope.

Context is subjective, i.e. subject to interpretation.

Grammar is objective. That means that it is defined by rules. Thus there are rules of grammar which are associated with every language.

That which is objective will always take precedence over, and can be used to define and clarify, that which is subjective. In language, this means that the objective rules of grammar can be used to define and clarify the subjective interpretations of context.

The essential precedence of objectivity over subjectivity is evident in innumerable aspects of life, and in the laws and rules of the universe. Chaos would result if this were not true. If you formulated your own subjective interpretation about the context of gravity, and concluded that gravity did not in fact exist, you could easily test your subjective interpretation of its context (many have) from the top of a cliff. Would you? I presume not. Why wouldn't you? Because you've become aware that the objective rule of gravity will always take precedence over your subjective interpretation of its context.

And when the objective rules of grammar are applied to the subjective interpretation of the context of the passage in Daniel 9, they define and clarify the reality that all of the "he's" in Daniel 9:27 have an antecedent of Messiah the Prince.

 

[jgr]

The ordinary sense of the term ? in that sense the apostasy has already happened and continues to happen and will continue till the coming of the Lord , so we are no longer waiting on an apostasy to happen and the day of the Lord can happen at any time

You'll have to argue (posthumously) with Bro. John F. Walvoord about that. I was merely quoting him.