The Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil.

[joshua 1 9]

We read about two trees in the garden of Eden. After Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge then they were banned from the garden least they eat of tree of life and live forever in the condition they were in.

Usually we hear that Adam and Eve sinned and so Jesus had to go to Calvary to pay the price for that sin. Yet there are people, esp the Hebrew people that believe creation was already in a fallen condition and Adam made a choice to become a part of that so that he could become a part of the cure. 1Peter4:13 "But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed."

Either way they made a choice so I am not sure where calvinists say God predestine them and they had no choice. Still I think we need a lot better understanding of what was going on in Eden and just what the knowledge of good and evil has to do with the tree of life.

 

[Matthew 24 10]

why would you trust Hebrew believers about the creation conditions if they can't see who Messiah is based on like 400+ prophecy ?

We don't know what eden was .
They had different body , Jesus could walk through walls and appear/disappear since he came to restore what was lost Adam and Eve must have that ability too .

Also try to name all animals like Adam in one day , we wouldn't be ever able to read that fast .

 

[Speedwell]

why would you trust Hebrew believers about the creation conditions if they can't see who Messiah is based on like 400+ prophecy ?

We don't know what eden was .
They had different body , Jesus could walk through walls and appear/disappear since he came to restore what was lost Adam and Eve must have that ability too .

Also try to name all animals like Adam in one day , we wouldn't be ever able to read that fast .

Because they knew how to read. Whatever theory of divine inspiration you hold to there is no doubt that the Eden story is exactly as God intended it to be. The reading Joshua suggests is entirely plausible.

 

[Matthew 24 10]

Because they knew how to read. Whatever theory of divine inspiration you hold to there is no doubt that the Eden story is exactly as God intended it to be. The reading Joshua suggests is entirely plausible.

Can you prove it ?

 

[A_Thinker]

Because they knew how to read. Whatever theory of divine inspiration you hold to there is no doubt that the Eden story is exactly as God intended it to be. The reading Joshua suggests is entirely plausible.

How does that reconcile with scripture stating that the fall of creation is due to Adam's sin ... ?

Genesis 3

17 And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

 

[Speedwell]

How does that reconcile with scripture stating that the fall of creation is due to Adam's sin ... ?

Genesis 3

17 And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

All I see there is the fall of man, not the fall of creation.

 

[drjean]

Let's think about this.
Perhaps should be in Deeper thought forum
But as Colombo would say, just the facts m'am just the facts.
I am not pre-Adamic.

I agree (because God's Word tells us this):

We read about two trees in the garden of Eden. After Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge then they were banned from the garden least they eat of tree of life and live forever in the condition they were in.

There was a tree of knowledge of GOOD and EVIL. So there was already evil in the universe. [Had satan already rebelled and being cast to earth, set up his own cities with his own entities? Surely he was there taking control of the serpent in Eden.] God's creation was ALL GOOD.

GOD walked and talked with the Adams in the garden prior to the "fall", indeed it was then that they hid from Him. [Pre-incarnate Christ?] They were made in His image [was this triune only, or did they have the same abilities to materialize/dematerialize for movement, thus thinking they could hide from Jehovah God?]

Another interesting verse here: 2: 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.[Neither adam had a mother nor a father (nor belly buttons for that matter).]


Since they were perfect prior to the 'fall', why would the female adam (called Eve) sinfully ADD TO GOD'S WORD (neither shall ye touch it) and how could she do this? [Free will comes to mind.]

It could be that the male adam did choose to sin with the female adam, knowing that there would be punishment as God has warned and not wanting to be alone (again). He didn't have to. He could have rebuked her and trusted God to give him another--but she was bone of his bones etc.

We also know that Cain was concerned : that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
(Whom would these other people be?)

 

[joshua 1 9]

why would you trust Hebrew believers about the creation conditions if they can't see who Messiah is based on like 400+ prophecy ?

Because of their knowledge and understanding of the Hebrew language. One third of all tongues, tribes, nations and people are going to be saved. The church does not save people, only through the Blood of Jesus can people be saved.

 

[A_Thinker]

All I see there is the fall of man, not the fall of creation.

"Cursed is the ground because of you ... " ???

 

[Speedwell]

How does that reconcile with scripture stating that the fall of creation is due to Adam's sin ... ?

Genesis 3

17 And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

That's it??? God cursed the ground which Adam had to till so it would be tough on him, and you turn that into the total depravity of the entire universe?

 

[Sanoy]

Eden was just one small part of the earth. It may be that as imagers we were to make the whole world like Eden. The bible doesn't really say that but the fact that there is Eden and not-Eden makes one wonder what the outside was for and why it was not like Eden. Maybe God planted Eden as a model for mankind to spread, to make the rest of the earth like Eden. It's hard to say but there must have been a reason for the contrast.

Unfortunately the tree of good and evil does not translate well into English. It's more like pleasantness and adversity. It's interesting that they were told two things about the tree, not to eat of it, and not to touch it. The Manachineel tree is both poisonous to eat from or to touch but it's hard to imagine this section could be so flatly literal as to call a poisonous tree by such a complex name. The book is complex and layered with all it's other parts so it would be strange for it's core message to simply refer to a poisonous tree. I still have no clue what the prohibition on touching it was, but I think it could be a clue to a deeper understanding.

 

[dreadnought]

We read about two trees in the garden of Eden. After Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge then they were banned from the garden least they eat of tree of life and live forever in the condition they were in.

Usually we hear that Adam and Eve sinned and so Jesus had to go to Calvary to pay the price for that sin. Yet there are people, esp the Hebrew people that believe creation was already in a fallen condition and Adam made a choice to become a part of that so that he could become a part of the cure. 1Peter4:13 "But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed."

Either way they made a choice so I am not sure where calvinists say God predestine them and they had no choice. Still I think we need a lot better understanding of what was going on in Eden and just what the knowledge of good and evil has to do with the tree of life.

I've never heard that Adam sinned so that he could be part of the solution, and I cannot believe that is what he did.

Maybe what would help is to understand what it means to eat of the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” My best guess is that it means that we are to resist passing judgment on people.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I've never heard that Adam sinned so that he could be part of the solution, and I cannot believe that is what he did.

I gave you the scripture in Peter how we share in the suffering of Christ. I can give you more. Paul talks about how we are co-heirs with Christ if we suffer with Him.

Romans 8:17
And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ--if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.

1Peter4:13 "But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed."

Maybe what would help is to understand what it means to eat of the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” My best guess is that it means that we are to resist passing judgment on people.

This is the question I am asking and so far no one seems to have the answer. I just thought if Christians do not know what this means then maybe we can look at what the Hebrew people have to say about this.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I've never heard that Adam sinned so that he could be part of the solution, and I cannot believe that is what he did.

This is an alternative teaching by people like the Mormons and the Hebrew Rabbi teachers. This is something different from what Billy Graham teaches.

 

[dreadnought]

I gave you the scripture in Peter how we share in the suffering of Christ. I can give you more. Paul talks about how we are co-heirs with Christ if we suffer with Him.

Romans 8:17
And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ--if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.

1Peter4:13 "But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed."

This is the question I am asking and so far no one seems to have the answer. I just thought if Christians do not know what this means then maybe we can look at what the Hebrew people have to say about this.

I don't think sharing in the suffering of Christ had anything to do with Adam's motive. Adam's motive, I believe, is well documented in the third chapter of Genesis.

 

[dreadnought]

This is an alternative teaching by people like the Mormons and the Hebrew Rabbi teachers. This is something different from what Billy Graham teaches.

Where did you hear that Mormons and Hebrew Rabbi teachers taught this?

 

[Not me]

What is the knowledge of good and evil?

Ask yourself have you ever watched those abortion videos where the tear apart a living child limb from limb. I going to say not. The question is why? Answer, because you don’t want the “knowledge of that evil” in your brain. That’s all the knowledge of evil is. Just not knowing it. It doesn’t make you stupid, it’s just something you don’t want to know. (Food for thought.)

 

[dreadnought]

What is the knowledge of good and evil?

Ask yourself have you ever watched those abortion videos where the tear apart a living child limb from limb. I going to say not. The question is why? Answer, because you don’t want the “knowledge of that evil” in your brain. That all the knowledge of evil is. Just not knowing it. It doesn’t make you stupid, it’s just something you don’t want to know. (Food for thought.)

My best guess is that the knowledge of good and evil is when we judge others without good reason.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Where did you hear that Mormons and Hebrew Rabbi teachers taught this?

I talked to the Mormon missionarys about this. On line they (mormons) say: "7. Adam and Eve’s act of eating the forbidden fruit was not a sin, but was a noble deed that was necessary for the blessing of the human race." Mormon Belief: The Doctrine of the LDS Church As far as the rabbi, that was on youtube and the video is worth listening to.

 

[joshua 1 9]

My best guess is that the knowledge of good and evil is when we judge others without good reason.

They say we are a part of the problem or a part of the cure. Our job then here on earth is to be a part of the cure or the restoration of creation.