LDS Were these people excommunicated?

[Rescued One]

The problem is not what does the bible say---that is clear. But with LDS there are levels of eternal life with exaltation being the highest. The question is not what does the bible say but what does the LDS doctrine say--which is a murderer can not obtain the highest level of eternal life, which is exaltation.

No, eternal life is only the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. Exaltation and eternal life are synonymous.

"Eternal life, or exaltation, is to live in God's presence and to continue as families (see D&C 131:1–4)."
Eternal Life

 

[mmksparbud]

LDS Christians likewise believe repentance is the key to eternal life, to all sins. Christ alone is the Judge.

Not talking about eternal life--talking about what you call Exaltation.

Doctrine and Covenants

Section 131

1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

5 (May 17th, 1843.) The more sure word of prophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood.

6 It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.

7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.
Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

39 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.

(26-21) 2 Samuel 12:13. David Is Still Paying in Hell for His Sins

The Joseph Smith Translation says, “The Lord also hath not put away thy sin” (JST, 2 Samuel 12:13).

 

[Jane_Doe]

Not talking about eternal life--talking about what you call Exaltation.

Doctrine and Covenants

Section 131

1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

5 (May 17th, 1843.) The more sure word of prophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood.

6 It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.

7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

(Stripping any possible denomination specific words away)
LDS Christians likewise believe repentance is the key to living with God forever, having the fullness of possible happiness, and fullness possible existence with Him forever. This applies for all sins. Christ alone is the Judge.

 

[mmksparbud]

No, eternal life is only the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. Exaltation and eternal life are synonymous.

"Eternal life, or exaltation, is to live in God's presence and to continue as families (see D&C 131:1–4)."
Eternal Life

OK--the term then is celestial/ telestial??

Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained the limits of David’s eternal inheritance:

“Murderers are forgiven eventually but only in the sense that all sins are forgiven except the sin against the Holy Ghost; they are not forgiven in the sense that celestial salvation is made available to them. (Matt. 12:31–32; Teachings, pp. 356–357.) After they have paid the full penalty for their crime, they shall go on to a telestial inheritance. (Rev. 22:15.)” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 520.)

 

[Rescued One]

OK--the term then is celestial/ telestial??

Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained the limits of David’s eternal inheritance:

“Murderers are forgiven eventually but only in the sense that all sins are forgiven except the sin against the Holy Ghost; they are not forgiven in the sense that celestial salvation is made available to them. (Matt. 12:31–32; Teachings, pp. 356–357.) After they have paid the full penalty for their crime, they shall go on to a telestial inheritance. (Rev. 22:15.)” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 520.)

I'm confused as to why you typed "celestial/telestial." What exactly are you asking?

Telestial is the lowest of the three degrees of glory in which people will dwell after the Final Judgment. Murderers can never merit eternal life.

McConkie said that murderers will eventually be forgiven, but Kimball disagreed:
Explaining this is easiest when using King David of old as an example. David began to repent of his two very serious sins — committing adultery with Bathsheba after having her husband Uriah killed — the minute the prophet Nathan exposed him. He repented all the rest of his life, and he is still repenting. He is suffering for his own sins, since forgiveness cannot come to him through the atonement of Christ, because murder is unforgivable. He will continue to suffer until the last resurrection, which will occur after Christ has finished His work on the earth, after His millennial reign.

God revealed to Joseph Smith, the prophet, that because of David’s repentance and suffering, he will be saved into the Terrestrial Kingdom, which is second in glory to the Celestial Kingdom of heaven (1 Corinthians 15:40-42). (See also Doctrine and Covenants 132:39 .) David received a promise that the Lord would not leave his soul in hell—which is the process of suffering for one’s own sins in the Spirit World before resurrection and final judgment. Thus, David has not been forgiven, but will be pardoned. Thus, murder is not forgivable, but it is pardonable. Murderers will suffer for their own sins, meaning they are unforgiven, but they will not be completely cast outside the influence of God’s glory in the life to come, if they do try to repent.
Spencer W. Kimball, Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 131

Doctrine and Covenants 42
18And now, behold, I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come.

Within the telestial glory there will be varying degrees of glory even as the stars vary in brightness as we see them. It embraces those who on earth willfully reject the gospel of Jesus Christ, and commit serious sins such as murder, adultery, lying, and loving to make a lie (but yet do not commit the unpardonable sin), and who do not repent in mortality. They will be cleansed in the postmortal spirit world or spirit prison before the resurrection (D&C 76:81-85, 98-106; Rev. 22:15). Telestial inhabitants as innumerable as the stars will come forth in the last resurrection and then be "servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come" (D&C 76:112). Although the least of the degrees of glory, yet the Telestial Kingdom "surpasses all understanding" (D&C 76:89). [See also Degrees of Glory.] CLYDE J. WILLIAMS
Telestial Kingdom - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

 

[Rescued One]

Exaltation is eternal life. Immortality is not eternal life. Those in the two lower levels of the Celestial kingdom do not have eternal life; they have immortality.

 

[mmksparbud]

Exaltation is eternal life. Immortality is not eternal life. Those in the two lower levels of the Celestial kingdom do not have eternal life; they have immortality.

Thank you! Just as I think I got it down--poof--. I got exaltation confused --it's you don't get exaltation if you are not married by the priest for eternity. Right? How in the world can there be a difference when the words mean the same thing?? Immortality---eternal life--to the regular world, they are the same--what Did JS come up with on those 2 words? And what is the difference between forgiveness and pardon? Murder can nit be forgiven, and then it can be pardoned---HUH???

 

[Rescued One]

Maybe looking at the Celestial Kingdom on the above diagram will be helpful.

 

[mmksparbud]

OK---where do murderers go??

 

[Rescued One]

Thank you! Just as I think I got it down--poof--. I got exaltation confused --it's you don't get exaltation if you are not married by the priest for eternity. Right? How in the world can there be a difference when the words mean the same thing??

The Greek words for everlasting and eternal are the same.

Immortality---eternal life--to the regular world, they are the same--what Did JS come up with on those 2 words?

His religion is fiction. That's why they struggle with whether or not David could be forgiven. The D&C says murder cannot be forgiven. But when confronted by Christians they needed to come up with some kind of explanation.

And what is the difference between forgiveness and pardon? Murder can nit be forgiven, and then it can be pardoned---HUH???

That is the new explanation where they are trying to make the D&C not contradict the Bible.
Definition of pardon
: indulgence 1
2: the excusing of an offense without exacting a penalty

• offered a pardon to the draft evader

: a release from the legal penalties of an offense
b : an official warrant of remission of penalty

• a royal pardon later released him from a death sentence
• —American Guide Series: Maryland

4: excuse or forgiveness for a fault, offense, or discourtesy

• I beg yourpardon

• She asked my pardon for taking up so much of my time.

Definition of PARDON

 

[Rescued One]

OK---where do murderers go??

The ones who tried to repent in mortality will go to the terrestrial kingdom.

The ones who made no attempt in mortality go to the telestial kingdom ---

unless the Mormons change their teachings again.

 

[mmksparbud]

The ones who tried to repent in mortality will go to the terrestrial kingdom.

The ones who made no attempt in mortality go to the telestial kingdom ---

unless the Mormons change their teachings again.

So no murderer can ever get to the celestial kingdom--right??? I think I got celestial mixed up with exaltation--are they not the same thing? Then unrepentant racists (or any hater) can only get to the telestial or terrestrial kingdoms. Never celestial. Christianity is no much simpler---you're either lost or saved!

 

[Jane_Doe]

So no murderer can ever get to the celestial kingdom--right??? I think I got celestial mixed up with exaltation--are they not the same thing? Then unrepentant racists (or any hater) can only get to the telestial or terrestrial kingdoms. Never celestial. Christianity is no much simpler---you're either lost or saved!

*Actual Mormon explaining actual Mormon beliefs*
Repentance and Christ is the key here. The previous 'answers' provided here are nothing but a distraction to avoid talking about Christ. Christ is the focal point of the answer because it's al dependent on Him and that person's relationship with the Savior. Have they accepted Him? Have they repented? And then Christ will judge.

 

[Rescued One]

So no murderer can ever get to the celestial kingdom--right??? I think I got celestial mixed up with exaltation--are they not the same thing? Then unrepentant racists (or any hater) can only get to the telestial or terrestrial kingdoms. Never celestial. Christianity is no much simpler---you're either lost or saved!

2 Corinthians 11
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.


People don't usually tell you that there are three levels in the Celestial Kingdom.

D&C 132
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25...
Doctrine and Covenants 132

Mormons never spoke to me about haters or racists. But they certainly haven't reached perfection and Mormons didn't consider themselves racist. They were being obedient to their leaders. They just never mentioned blacks when I was a Mormon even though some of that time was during Martin Luther King's time.

 

[Rescued One]

Inhabitants of the highest celestial degree inherit "thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers," and dwell with God and Jesus Christ forever (D&C 76:54-70;132:19-20).
Celestial Kingdom - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

There are other people who earned a place in either of the lower levels of the CK.

 

[Rescued One]

*Actual Mormon explaining actual Mormon beliefs*
Repentance and Christ is the key here. The previous 'answers' provided here are nothing but a distraction to avoid talking about Christ. Christ is the focal point of the answer because it's al dependent on Him and that person's relationship with the Savior. Have they accepted Him? Have they repented? And then Christ will judge.

Answers that are true are NOT distractions. I'm truthfully answering questions that have been asked.

You can't speak for the Church and you are not a prophet.

 

[Rescued One]

View attachment 222001
Maybe looking at the Celestial Kingdom on the above diagram will be helpful.

mmksparbud, Do you see the three levels of the Celestial Kingdom? The highest level in that kingdom is for the exalted ones. That is where God and Christ are said to be. IDK where the Holy Spirit is; they forgot to mention Him.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Answers that are true are NOT distractions. I'm truthfully answering questions that have been asked.

Did you know a kangaroo can jump 25 ft in a single hop?
It's true, but doesn't address the topic and is a distraction. Talking about the topic of a person's salvation involves talking about Christ.

You can't speak for the Church and you are not a prophet.

I am an actual LDS person explaining actual LDS beliefs.

 

[mmksparbud]

mmksparbud, Do you see the three levels of the Celestial Kingdom? The highest level in that kingdom is for the exalted ones. That is where God and Christ are said to be. IDK where the Holy Spirit is; they forgot to mention Him.

Thank you--that does help.

 

[mmksparbud]

Did you know a kangaroo can jump 25 ft in a single hop?
It's true, but doesn't address the topic and is a distraction. Talking about the topic of a person's salvation involves talking about Christ.

I am an actual LDS person explaining actual LDS beliefs.

You can talk about Christ till your blue in the face--that does not answer other questions regarding what is the LDS believe about that salvation. The thing is this: What is it that saves you and where do you get that information from? Salvation is, of course, from Jesus alone. And where do you find the information given by the Holy Spirit to man? From the bible. Jesus replied to a lot of questions with the words--"It is written"--He was quoting from the OT---and since the Dead Sea Scrolls, it has been proven that the OT He was reading from, is the same as was found in those scrolls, which is the same as we find them today---In none of His statements are anything about any of the writings that JS teaches. No mention at all, and He should know, He was there. If He thought it was important to our salvation, He would have made that obvious. He came for our salvation. If Jesus did not feel that anything else was needed but what the OT and He and His disciples said---than anything that JS has to say is of no value to that salvation for they are contrary to what the bible says.
However, it is not Jesus' teachings that hold the ultimate place of honor in the LDS believes, that goes to JS for whenever there is any question about a topic, his believes takes precedence over what the bible says. It is His interpretation that holds sway and without believing in him, the LDS believe there is no salvation for he holds the real truth as you. As such, the bottom line to it all, is not Jesus Christ, but JS that is who the LDS truly follow, His is the final and true interpretation of the bible. He is, therefore, no matter how you may vehemently deny it--your true authority for salvation---not the words of God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son, nor the Holy Spirit. He sets forth the levels of your Celestial kingdoms--not the word of God, it is even he that determines who can get in for your prophets have stated without his approval even they can not enter. I am not going to quote those statements again, they've been quoted often enough. In short--It is still this that will be said:

at 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They claimed Jesus also--in His name did wonderful works. The mere mention of the name Jesus does not mean that is whom is being followed. God the Father honors the name of His Son and will answer those prayers---those lost souls who used His name for their miracles were answered--in the end, it does them no good. For it was not Him they truly followed. That is the danger in merely saying--it is Jesus that saves--- then listening to someone else. In the eyes of God, it means nothing.