"DACA is not a bargaining chip, it's a wedge."

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This article so well articulates what was going on with the DACA debacle that I just had to share.


http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2018/01/daca-is-not-bargaining-chip-its-wedge.html

It points to the whole thing summed up in 30 tweets regarding why the Democrats lost, and why this does not bode well for them.

One interesting meme is the strongly implied point that what is happening is a separation of the "normal" democrats from the far left nutcase base. You know, the precious snowflakes, SJW's, women's rights advocates, BLM folks, LGBTQXYZ folks, etc. The normal ones are already trying to distance themselves. Trump just needs to give them excuses and they may just switch, like Kim Davis did.

 

[archer75]

The actual left does need to separate from the Democrats.

But the "nutcases" you mean act as the face of the Democrats. They're used as a distraction. They get themselves riled up about needing more female directors, but don't mention the billions in Hollywood while people starve in the streets.

 

[LoAmmi]

Ah, something written by someone who's so smug he could bottle it and sell it on the street. Democrats were smug once too.

 

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The actual left does need to separate from the Democrats.

But the "nutcases" you mean act as the face of the Democrats. They're used as a distraction. They get themselves riled up about needing more female directors, but don't mention the billions in Hollywood while people starve in the streets.

I think the internet and social media is forcing everyone to be more honest. It all started with Dan Rather and has been getting better ever since. I think the uniparty is dying.

 

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Ah, something written by someone who's so smug he could bottle it and sell it on the street. Democrats were smug once too.

Ad-hominem.

Also, I'm not really seeing all that much smugness. It may be because I'm focusing on the details of what is in the tweets - and my ox is not being gored.

 

[archer75]

I think the internet and social media is forcing everyone to be more honest. It all started with Dan Rather and has been getting better ever since. I think the uniparty is dying.

I think I hope you're right.

The actual left hardly has a voice in public. In part because they're not well-organized, in part because the Dems recruit them all the time for votes and then ignore them. The Left isn't about a bunch of SJW nonsense on Facebook.

 

[archer75]

The Dems really are in a tight spot.

They have to try to brand themselves as against Trump, when really they're not very different.

They can't go against themselves so they have to keep pushing the SJW angles...but no one really cares about that.

But they can't offer an actual alternative to Trump because Trump is them - just with a more chaotic and unpleasant demeanor.

 

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I think I hope you're right.

The actual left hardly has a voice in public. In part because they're not well-organized, in part because the Dems recruit them all the time for votes and then ignore them. The Left isn't about a bunch of SJW nonsense on Facebook.

The left does a lot of marching and burning down their own neighborhood, getting run down when they try to block freeways, etc. Remember Occupy wall street? It simply vanished without a trace. The reason is an interesting thing to research.

The left is, for the most part, kids. Kids that want to "make a difference", but don't really know much other than they don't believe what they believed when they were children. It's all a coming of age thing. And lets be frank, it's fun to get into this political stuff and marches and things. It's also a great way to meet chicks.

Most of us outgrow it, of course.

 

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The Dems really are in a tight spot.

They have to try to brand themselves as against Trump, when really they're not very different.

They can't go against themselves so they have to keep pushing the SJW angles...but no one really cares about that.

But they can't offer an actual alternative to Trump because Trump is them - just with a more chaotic and unpleasant demeanor.

Well, if you look at what he's actually accomplished, he's more conservative than Reagan. I was against him in the primary because I didn't think he was a conservative. I saw him as a chameleon and nobody knew his true colors. Who knew that his true colors (at least so far) were so conservative?! I'm loving it!

 

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BTW, the originator of the 30 tweets is a genuine native american, even more so than Elizabeth Warren.

 

[LoAmmi]

Ad-hominem.

Also, I'm not really seeing all that much smugness. It may be because I'm focusing on the details of what is in the tweets - and my ox is not being gored.

Anybody who thinks Donald Trump is playing six dimensional chess is wrong.

 

[archer75]

Well, if you look at what he's actually accomplished, he's more conservative than Reagan. I was against him in the primary because I didn't think he was a conservative. I saw him as a chameleon and nobody knew his true colors. Who knew that his true colors (at least so far) were so conservative?! I'm loving it!

Responding here turns the discussion into "what you think motivates DJT" and I guess that's not the topic, so I'll let it drop.

I also disagree that the Left is mostly kids, but I agree that it looks that way.

 

[archer75]

"Trump is going to use DACA to split Dems from their hardest-of-hardcore base: the ethnic agitators, the SJWs, the cat ladies, and the whole rest of that ranting crew."

Who are the ethnic agitators?

 

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Anybody who thinks Donald Trump is playing six dimensional chess is wrong.

Well I certainly agree with that. I think his strength is that he is not a politician. I believe the implications were made clear after the release of the "grab 'em by the..." comment. It was supposed to destroy him. It would have worked with any normal politician. He used it to double down.

It exposed the major weakness of the Democrat strategy. To succeed they are going to need to change it. They are going to have to fight on issues, not personal smears. That no longer works. As one female Trump voter said to NPR before the election regarding his remark: "I'm voting for a president, not a husband."

What made Trump successful in business is what is guiding his success in Politics. And it trumps politics as usual (no pun intended).

 

[LoAmmi]

What made Trump successful in business is what is guiding his success in Politics. And it trumps politics as usual (no pun intended).

Success can mean many things. I think he has greatly harmed our standing in the world at large. Other countries are no longer looking to the United States for leadership, but ready to do their own thing. Since you and I are seemingly political opposites, I assume you find that to be a very good thing, while I see it as being a very bad thing.

Hopefully we don't have a Kansas-like trickle-down economy problem due to the tax breaks.

 

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Responding here turns the discussion into "what you think motivates DJT" and I guess that's not the topic, so I'll let it drop.

I also disagree that the Left is mostly kids, but I agree that it looks that way.

I was watching a leftist protest on second avenue in downtown Seattle roughly ten years ago, in the middle of a weekday. As they passed, a gentleman standing next to me said something I'll never forget that sums it up precisely: "Hmmm. Students and gray ponytails."

i.e. I agree with you, but from this perspective: With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone.

 

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Success can mean many things. I think he has greatly harmed our standing in the world at large. Other countries are no longer looking to the United States for leadership, but ready to do their own thing. Since you and I are seemingly political opposites, I assume you find that to be a very good thing, while I see it as being a very bad thing.

Hopefully we don't have a Kansas-like trickle-down economy problem due to the tax breaks.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "standing". I think the damage Obama did to our "standing" was almost fatal.

 

[LoAmmi]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "standing". I think the damage Obama did to our "standing" was almost fatal.

I think you are delusional when it comes to that. I can point to quotes from the leaders of allies to backup my point. Can you?

 

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I think you are delusional when it comes to that. I can point to quotes from the leaders of allies to backup my point. Can you?

Quotes don't matter. Results matter.

I don't expect Trump to send any of our enemies a bunch of pallets of money, for starters. And I understand that Nobel wants their prize back. For me, Obama was a bigger presidential embarrassment than James Buchanan. Notice how radical Islam and the middle east (not to mention Crimea) drastically heated up under his watch and how, after only a year, it's tepid.

That is not an accident of fate.

In fact, I just came across this article that may just drill home a part of what I'm talking about:
Donald Trump’s election saved this country. Here’s how

 

[LoAmmi]

Quotes don't matter. Results matter.

I don't expect Trump to send any of our enemies a bunch of pallets of money, for starters. And I understand that Nobel wants their prize back. For me, Obama was a bigger presidential embarrassment than James Buchanan. Notice how radical Islam and the middle east (not to mention Crimea) drastically heated up under his watch and how, after only a year, it's tepid.

That is not an accident of fate.

The Iranian money we owed them, so we gave it back, and then Trump lied about? Ok.

As far as ISIS, I'm not convinced it was all Trump. He didn't screw things up, but ISIS was already going down before the election. Not because of Obama or anything, but rather, people in the region getting off their behinds and doing their share.