Did the Pharisees know who Jesus was deep down inside?

[Lybrah]

I'm wondering this: When the pharisees blasphemed the Holy Spirit, or even when crucifying Him, did they know He was the son of God? It would make sense, because He wasn't who they were expecting. Also, didn't Pharisees have political power amongst their people? If so, acknowledging that Jesus was the messiah would shift that power from them to Him. I'm sure some of them really didn't think He was the son of God, but I am wondering if they knew but wanted Him gone because He fit what they envisioned.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Also, didn't Pharisees have political power amongst their people?

The Sadducees held political power along with the Herodians. Pharisees appealed to the masses, but the leadership in Jerusalem was more Sadducee and Herodian.

Also, it appears some Pharisees were among the early believers:

Acts 15:5 But some from the religious party of the Pharisees who had believed....

 

[dreadnought]

I'm wondering this: When the pharisees blasphemed the Holy Spirit, or even when crucifying Him, did they know He was the son of God? It would make sense, because He wasn't who they were expecting. Also, didn't Pharisees have political power amongst their people? If so, acknowledging that Jesus was the messiah would shift that power from them to Him. I'm sure some of them really didn't think He was the son of God, but I am wondering if they knew but wanted Him gone because He fit what they envisioned.

In Luke 23:34 (RSV) Jesus says:

Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

Maybe that’s the answer to one of your questions. I’ve always assumed that the people who wanted him dead were jealous of him.

 

[Shempster]

No.
The nature and character of Jesus likely seemed sort of stupid, as it does today.

 

[Eloy Craft]

there was no good reason for them not to know. Jesus warned them of committing the unforgivable sin because they had seen miracles that only God could do. That's why He said believe if not me but because of the miracles. When they gave credit to Beelzebub for the miracles that was a evidence that their state of denial could be permanent. They expected that believing in Jesus meant handing over their religious authority, Pharisees sat on the seat of Moses. That carried with it the authority of Moses. They had seen Jesus exercise His authority over Moses when He corrected Moses' teaching. Moses was fallible Jesus is not. They understood that. Let me post a scripture that demonstrates the power the authority of Moses

Matt-23
The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses;3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe,

They knew when Jesus said that He was demonstrating to them that His authority was greater than theirs. No one could ever do that before because no one before had that kind of authority. If His authority wasn't greater than theirs He wouldn't have to tell anyone to obey them. No Jew would disobey Moses. The scribes and Pharisees knew and preferred a lie over the Divine Revelation of God on earth. There plan was to kill Him for those reasons. Judas bought into their promises of reward for helping Im sure. Judas with a future of favor from the Pharisees preferred that things stay as they are. He rejected God's Kingdom and used his position as one of the twelve to secure a place with the Pharisees instead. They knew that Jesus was Messiah and King of the Jews. That's why they killed Him.

 

[Eloy Craft]

In Luke 23:34 (RSV) Jesus says:

Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

Maybe that’s the answer to one of your questions. I’ve always assumed that the people who wanted him dead were jealous of him.

Brother, Jesus said that when He saw the soldiers gambling for His clothes. Jesus had a heart for the soldier, The soldiers sense of duty and obedience, willing to die and dedication to order were qualities He appreciated and desired in His own followers. That's what I think and no one can talk me out of it

 

[dreadnought]

No.
The nature and character of Jesus likely seemed sort of stupid, as it does today.

Stupid to who? His two great commandments, that we love God with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves, seem to be right on track.

 

[ralliann]

I'm wondering this: When the pharisees blasphemed the Holy Spirit, or even when crucifying Him, did they know He was the son of God? It would make sense, because He wasn't who they were expecting. Also, didn't Pharisees have political power amongst their people? If so, acknowledging that Jesus was the messiah would shift that power from them to Him. I'm sure some of them really didn't think He was the son of God, but I am wondering if they knew but wanted Him gone because He fit what they envisioned.

The Pharisees were the Judges in the Sanhedrin. Whatever was decided there as law, had to be in unity with the high priest, (Sadducees) as being chief justice. All else than the Sanhedrin decisions, were sectarian tradition.
I think the Pharisees problem was, they did not judge as just Judges. Whether due to jealousy or not, they were similar to what we call activist judges today. So, I tend to agree with you concerning Christ not fitting what they envisioned.
I think we forget, the rulers in the law first rejected the baptism which John preached. There was criteria for the rulers to follow in judging these things. Prophets were to be judged by various factors. One obvious factor was whether their prophesies came true. John came preaching the coming wrath of God, and a way of escape. Christ preached the destruction of the temple. Both John and Christ were preaching wrath. They did not even wait for this prophesy to be proved or not.
So it was not just Jesus they rejected as judges, they also first rejected John the Baptist as well.
They disregarded all the exculpatory criteria for just judgement. Unjust judges, they bribed for false testimony as well

 

[2tim_215]

I don't think so. They didn't want to know.

 

[Doug Melven]

The Pharisees were intent on looking for there version of Messiah, Son of David.
They were looking for a king that would break the yoke of the Roman Empire.
And Jesus, according to Isaiah 53, had not nothing remarkable about Him.
They saw His miracles, but they just couldn't get past there preconceived notions about what the Messiah would be.
There are Jews today who are still waiting for Messiah to come.

 

[ralliann]

The Pharisees were intent on looking for there version of Messiah, Son of David.
They were looking for a king that would break the yoke of the Roman Empire.
And Jesus, according to Isaiah 53, had not nothing remarkable about Him.
They saw His miracles, but they just couldn't get past there preconceived notions about what the Messiah would be.
There are Jews today who are still waiting for Messiah to come.

The problem here is.......As Judges they had no jurisdiction on these things. The official authority of the judges was to judge causes between the people. Any cause that was to difficult for them, was to be brought before the high priest. The high priest could get answers from God himself by urim, in his garment called the breastplate of decision. So much for the idea of ORAL LAW. The only oral law given at Sinai, was law from God's mouth, by Urim, from the high priest.
The only criteria given the sanhedrin (Jewish rulers) would to be to Judge Christ as a prophet, that's all.

 

[ralliann]

nt

 

[Doug Melven]

The problem here is.......As Judges they had no jurisdiction on these things. The official authority of the judges was to judge causes between the people. Any cause that was to difficult for them, was to be brought before the high priest. The high priest could get answers from God himself by urim, in his garment called the breastplate of decision. So much for the idea of ORAL LAW. The only oral law given at Sinai, was law from God's mouth, by Urim, from the high priest.
The only criteria given the sanhedrin (Jewish rulers) would to be to Judge Christ as a prophet, that's all.

Whether or not they had the authority to do so, they did it anyways.

John 9:22 These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue

 

[ralliann]

The Sadducees held political power along with the Herodians. Pharisees appealed to the masses, but the leadership in Jerusalem was more Sadducee and Herodian.

Also, it appears some Pharisees were among the early believers:

Acts 15:5 But some from the religious party of the Pharisees who had believed....

The Sadducees were of the priesthood mostly. Their power was as chief justice over the Sanhedrin. The Pharisees had power from the people. So I think it was a wash. However, both sects, especially the Pharisees had their status among the people somewhat usurped during this period.
the people held John in as much esteem, if not more, than the Pharisees....
As we know John railed against the Pharisees, as much as the Sadducees.

Mt 21:25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

 

[Eloy Craft]

The problem here is.......As Judges they had no jurisdiction on these things. The official authority of the judges was to judge causes between the people. Any cause that was to difficult for them, was to be brought before the high priest. The high priest could get answers from God himself by urim, in his garment called the breastplate of decision. So much for the idea of ORAL LAW. The only oral law given at Sinai, was law from God's mouth, by Urim, from the high priest.
The only criteria given the sanhedrin (Jewish rulers) would to be to Judge Christ as a prophet, that's all.

I think what the Pharisees were worried about was losing their authority to teach the Law. It was authority of Moses. The High Priest as well. Jesus demonstrated more than once that His teaching authority was greater than theirs. Remember what they said Where did he get this teaching..How many times Jesus said, It is written, 'But I say"...this was a threat they understood.

 

[ralliann]

I think what the Pharisees were worried about was losing their authority to teach the Law. It was authority of Moses. The High Priest as well. Jesus demonstrated more than once that His teaching authority was greater than theirs. Remember what they said Where did he get this teaching..How many times Jesus said, It is written, 'But I say"...this was a threat they understood.

Yes, I think what you say is true. But, I think Christ's authority went beyond Moses law, and they understood that. The urim and thummim had been lost, long before.
Yet, we see this.
Joh 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

 

[Eloy Craft]

Yes, I think what you say is true. But, I think Christ's authority went beyond Moses law, and they understood that. The urim and thummim had been lost, long before.
Yet, we see this.
Joh 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

I beleive that. You know I was going to post that scripture too. Seems like the urim and thummim came out of hiding but only Christians could hear it's voice. Like it's not working for the old boss anymore. I enjoy the thought. Thanks for bringing that up.

 

[ralliann]

I beleive that. You know I was going to post that scripture too. Seems like the urim and thummim came out of hiding but only Christians could hear it's voice. Like it's not working for the old boss anymore. I enjoy the thought. Thanks for bringing that up.

Yep, me too. I have been thinking alot about the priesthood and that context of scripture. After all, the Apostles as well as Christ were about priesthood, not just "Judaism", as the common people lived it. Like this saying of scripture as well.....
Heb 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.