Catholic vs. Protestant – why is there so much animosity?"

[PeaceB]

Then why is your current pope Francis asking his Catholic church to consider re-admitting divorcees who are remarried into Communion? It is because doing so is neither in violation of Scripture nor of the ECF's. Why does the pope now seek to reverse RC requirements of celibacy for the ordained priesthood, in keeping with Orthodox Tradition and the Bible?

My friend, as time wears on, Romanism is tougher to sell. Do you really believe that reasonable people buy the lie of "annulment" of a Sacramental union between a husband and wife? I don't. I've seen these "annulments". They are usually nothing more than priest sanctioned "divorces" under a deceptive name. Contraception by NFP, allowed by RC is not recommended in the Bible: abstinence is recommended only for prayer and fasting, not to prevent conception. It's obvious that the RC teachers are twisting St. Paul's message when they try to insert NFP in there, when Paul himself at no point had contraception in mind when he wrote about abstinence from intercourse in marriage.

All this aside, however, The Orthodox Church does not "allow" divorce, or contraception. She merely exercises pastoral "ikonomia" in such cases where the occurrence of these unfortunate things is deemed to be less prohibitive to the salvation of the effected parties than the alternative. Orthodoxy "celebrates" Matrimony and children, in keeping with Holy Tradition from the time of Adam and Eve, until our Lord returns. We mourn the destruction of marriage, and this culture of death that seeks to prevent the bringing of new life (conception of children) into Communion with the Holy Trinity. We have the "mind of Christ", because we Live by the light of the Holy Spirit. Therefor, we hate divorce, and we hate contraception, just as our Lord does.

Did I touch a nerve?

 

[truefiction1]

The true church are all those that have been obedient to the light they had, not a corporate entity, not a denomination, not a building... the church is His people, wherever they are.

Here your claim does not square with the teaching Scripture, or with the beliefs and practices of the early Church as recorded in the Bible. We don't deny what you're saying about the Church being His people, wherever they are. We teach this also. This is what the Orthodox are alluding to when they say "the Communion of the saints". To say, however, that there is no "visible" organization of the Church ignores the Truth about the Church that is found both in Holy Scripture and in the Holy Apostolic Tradition.

 

[truefiction1]

Did I touch a nerve?

Not at all. I'm not emotionally invested in any of these arguments. I only type in order to bring things to light that many people of western Christian culture aren't aware of.

 

[prodromos]

Did I touch a nerve?

Did you read the link in my earlier response to you? Since you didn't reply, I wondered if I hadn't touched a nerve.

 

[PeaceB]

Did you read the link in my earlier response to you? Since you didn't reply, I wondered if I hadn't touched a nerve.

I didn’t even see it. What is the post number?

 

[prodromos]

109

 

[PeaceB]

109

I’ll have a look at it.

 

[PeaceB]

Not even the method of 'spacing children' permitted by the Catholic Church would have been accepted in the early Church, and before you get too proud about Rome's stance on divorce;
Divorce & Remarriage in the Latin West: A Forgotten History

I’m not particularly proud of anything. @truefiction1 is the one proclaiming boldly that the Eastern Orthodox Church has been 1000% in line with tradition. That doesn’t seem to hold up if you look at certain Eastern Orthodox practices, not that I feel like getting into a huge debate over who is “better” or “worse” in that respect.

 

[truefiction1]

One of the giants of Roman Catholic theology was Cardinal Newman. His response to the above would be the NT church was a mere acorn of what would become a fully grown tree. It was his Doctrinal Development which would, from a Roman Catholic standpoint, justify the list you provided.

When I explained doctrinal development to a Greek Orthodox friend, he cringed and it looked as if he broke out in hives.

Basically what Cardinal Newman taught was The Church in the here and now can determine truth not discovered in antiquity. He actually said that the Church standing on antiquity alone for tradition and doctrine was error.

When doctrinal development deviates from Holy Tradition in such a way as to contradict it, it is no longer doctrinal development: It then becomes heresy. The East/West schism happened because a "bud" from some other tree that is not a part of the Church was grafted into the tree. The branch that grew out of this bud has characteristics that should not be there. These characteristics are the "doctrinal developments" of the Roman jurisdiction which aren't aligned with Holy Tradition.

 

[truefiction1]

I’m not particularly proud of anything. @truefiction1 is the one proclaiming boldly that the Eastern Orthodox Church has been 1000% in line with tradition. That doesn’t seem to hold up if you look at certain Eastern Orthodox practices, not that I feel like getting into a huge debate over who is “better” or “worse” in that respect.

There will always be certain "practices" enacted that seem not to comply with Truth, especially when motivated by sinful passion. This rule holds true for all of humanity.

 

[Major1]

Of course it's reality with you all on this forum. You all think we have to be like you and if we are not we are damned

No sir, you assume in error.

We/Me think that ALL people are damned without the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ no matter what they think that they are.

The greatest missionary field in the world is a Church auditorium!

 

[Major1]

When doctrinal development deviates from Holy Tradition in such a way as to contradict it, it is no longer doctrinal development: It then becomes heresy. The East/West schism happened because a "bud" from some other tree that is not a part of the Church was grafted into the tree. The branch that grew out of this bud has characteristics that should not be there. These characteristics are the "doctrinal developments" of the Roman jurisdiction which aren't aligned with Holy Tradition.

I disagree with your comment. IMO when doctrinal development deviates from the Scriptures it is no longer doctrinal at all but instead has become exactly what the Bible says that it is.............

1 Tim. 4:1....
'Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons'.

 

[Major1]

There will always be certain "practices" enacted that seem not to comply with Truth, especially when motivated by sinful passion. This rule holds true for all of humanity.

And YOU just nailed it my friend. When "practices" evolve into "TRADITIONS", they are in fact always motivated by sinners because ALL men are sinners.

 

[Albion]

There is a lot of specific information on the Rosecrucian site that states what their beliefs and practices are and their doctrine.

In the first place, true conspirators of the kind we are being told to beware of do not host websites that advertise all that they stand for and are doing. But anyone can create a website and claim to represent almost any cause they want to claim.

One such item would be the 45 goals of communism to turn America into a socialist country. This was published in a book and also read into the congressional record in the very early 50's/ This list at that time was just ideas and now 60 years later almost every specific goal on that list has been accomplished. This shows that agendas are planned out and action plans are taken.

Possibly, but international Communism had and has a well-known and public history with millions of professed members in Communist parties, etc. When you turn to secret organizations that may or may not even exist, you're into a socio-political kind of science fiction akin to UFO hunting.

 

[Major1]

I would gather it would be the difference between Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodoxy.

I am not sure that there is any difference at all.

 

[Major1]

Why would you think your neighbor is confused?

Better yet...I wonder who the neighbor is that he is talking to?

 

[Major1]

The Pharisees and Sadducees did not have the Holy Spirit.

Jesus taught us to pray "Our Father", not "My Father.

I guess that there is something there that you are trying to say but I will be darned if I know what it is.

Wouldn't "OUR" Father be the same as "MY" Father seeing that Jesus and the Father are the same".

 

[truefiction1]

I disagree with your comment. IMO when doctrinal development deviates from the Scriptures it is no longer doctrinal at all but instead has become exactly what the Bible says that it is.............

1 Tim. 4:1....
'Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons'.

This claim of yours does contain "some" truth. However, in the form that you give it, it deviates from both Scripture and Holy Tradition. (1 Timothy 3:15) (2 Thessalonians 2:15). Individuals are not the "pillar and groundwork of the truth". The Church is.

 

[truefiction1]

And YOU just nailed it my friend. When "practices" evolve into "TRADITIONS", they are in fact always motivated by sinners because ALL men are sinners.

Sadly, demons place thoughts/impressions before many which obscure the truth. This is just one of them.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

All individuals are flawed, which is why individual interpretations cannot be infallible authorities. Infallibility is a characteristic of the whole Church across all of time and space. No single human person, except Christ, can be regarded as infallible.

I would rather learn and stand on what the Spirit has revealed to me than what another has espoused.... of course that means that I'll be in agreement at times with peoples from different faiths as God has His people across all spectrum's and His truth can be found among His people...