Catholic vs. Protestant – why is there so much animosity?"

[Sola1517]

Even Satan and the demons know and believe that Jesus is Lord...

Well, they may believe that Jesus is Lord without seeing themselves as sinful creatures. That is another part of the Gospel that is essential.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

So Paul distorted the truth? (1 Corinthians 1:11-13) This undermines the underlying theme of there are differing views in the Church. What I think Paul is really saying is that there ought to be unity in essentials an diversity in non essentials. And what is most essential besides the Gospel? As long as we can agree on that (and there are some that don't) then we can still come together and be united.

There are many different ideas of what constitute the Gospel. I think it would be an Interesting revelation at this point to see what different people believe.perhaps I should start a new thread.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I do not believe in denominational superiority, only in truth as it's presented in the Bible. Jesus was very specific in what He said and it wasn't to join with others that don't believe what He taught.

My problem with this is it puts each individual in the role of judge deciding which branches of Christianity properly believe what Jesus taught and which do not. I am content to accept that every Christian who can proclaim the Nicene Creed is doing their best to walk in the way of Jesus just as I am.

 

[Tutorman]

I do not know where you are living but that just is not the case. I realize that is what you want to see but that is not reality.

Of course it's reality with you all on this forum. You all think we have to be like you and if we are not we are damned

 

[Yarddog]

What is the false claim made in the post?????

Well, you start off making a claim, "The Protestants understand that the RCC teaches a "work-gospel" that can not save and the Catholic church thinks that Protestants teach a "greasy - grace" gospel that requires nothing more than a simple confession of wrong doing/sin due to the emotional preaching of a man."

Something which stands out is that you claim Protestants "understand" but the Catholic church "thinks", when referring to what is believed by others. Anyone who thinks they understand that the Catholic Church teaches a work-gospel is incorrect. The Catholic Church also does not think that Protests teach a "greasy-grace" gospel. (Some Catholics may but the Catholic Church doesn't claim this. Another thing is to try to assume that there is a Protestant Doctrine. There are many churches which consider themselves Protestants and each has their own unique beliefs regarding Christianity.

You assume, "that every Catholic believer will agree that when it comes down to deciding a theological issue about defined Catholic dogma, there isn’t anything to discuss on the Catholic's side because once Rome speaks, it is settled." Boy, you haven't heard Catholics debate about doctrine.

Then you say "Whenever there is a theological discussion when trying to debate a Roman Catholic – reason and Scripture are not the Catholic’s final authority; they can always retreat into the “safe zone” of Roman Catholic Authority." Again, you must not have discussed very many topics with Catholics because very few fall into this concept. Most good Catholic debaters are more than happy to go toe to toe with scripture.

Now, I am not here to debate my Protestant brethren on what each believes because my main focus is if God has accepted them by baptizing them in his Holy Spirit. If God accepts them, so do I, regardless of what they may teach.

God Bless

 

[PeaceB]

The critical Truth found in the Bible is accessible only by the teaching of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides the True Church, as indicated in Scripture, and is present in this Church: the Orthodox Church. What other Church is there that has existed from the beginning, and which has not overthrown the teaching authority of the Holy Spirit and replaced it with some other, whether it be the infallible papal office held by fallible men, or infallible Scripture being read and interpreted by fallible men?

There is a Church that is the "pillar and foundation the of Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15). This is so whether we accept it or not. It is not the Roman church with her pernicious, "logos biased" deviations from Holy Tradition, nor it's daughter: the widely scattered and doctrinally diverse protestant church along with its many and varied sectarian offshoots. It is the Orthodox Church.

This is not denominational superiority, or Orthodox triumphalism. Rather, it is the gift of God and the keeping of His promise to send the Holy Spirit to lead us into all Truth.

All of that is a pretty tough sell when the Eastern Orthodox allowance of contraception and remarriage after divorce comes straight from the popular culture, and is completely inconsistent with Scripture and the ECF.

 

[TuxAme]

I think several of the threads here- even this one- act as exhibits A, B, C and so on, of why there is so much animosity. For starters, in the original post, the claim that my Church teaches a "works-gospel" that can't save. The original post started out with a sincere question... then turned around and exacerbated it.

 

[Blessed15]

IF you have been on this web site for any length of time you have seen that most of the conversations and debates revolve around the conflict between the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith.

There is constant back and forth banter and in the end the difference is still there.
IT seems that the debates always disintegrate into personal combat and verbal wars with the moderators finally ending the thread and in fact I expect that same thing to happen to this thread.

It seems to me that the conflict comes from our basic human nature in dealing with fundamental disagreements concerning eternal truths. The Protestants understand that the RCC teaches a "work-gospel" that can not save and the Catholic church thinks that Protestants teach a "greasy - grace" gospel that requires nothing more than a simple confession of wrong doing/sin due to the emotional preaching of a man.

However, looking deeper than just that the question must be WHY?
In My Opinion the real rift that ignites the debate is rooted in AUTHORITY!

How anyone answers that question always determines the answers to all the other questions.
I think that every Catholic believer will agree that when it comes down to deciding a theological issue about defined Catholic dogma, there isn’t anything to discuss on the Catholic's side because once Rome speaks, it is settled.

Therefore we have the ROOT of the conflict. Whenever there is a theological discussion when trying to debate a Roman Catholic – reason and Scripture are not the Catholic’s final authority; they can always retreat into the “safe zone” of Roman Catholic Authority.

Because of this, the arguments between a Protestant and a Catholic will revolve around one's “private interpretation” of Scripture as against the "official teachings of the Roman Catholic Church."

Catholics claim to successfully avoid the legitimate problems of private interpretation by their reliance on their TRADITION. But that never satisfies the difference but instead merely pushes the question back a step. The truth is that both Roman Catholics and Protestants must, in the end, rely upon their reasoning abilities to choose their authority and their interpretive skills to understand what that authority teaches in order to determine what they will believe. IMO, Protestants are simply more willing to admit that this is the case.[/QUOTE


We will not be able to win over non believers if we keep emphasizing our differences. It is time for churches to focus on common ground.

[/url]wges sn [/IMG] wges sn

 

[prodromos]

All of that is a pretty tough sell when the Eastern Orthodox allowance of contraception and remarriage after divorce comes straight from the popular culture, and is completely inconsistent with Scripture and the ECF.

Not even the method of 'spacing children' permitted by the Catholic Church would have been accepted in the early Church, and before you get too proud about Rome's stance on divorce;
Divorce & Remarriage in the Latin West: A Forgotten History

 

[jax5434]

It's people like Major1 that always try to bash Catholic doctrine. Again and again. This thread is yet another way of trying to bash Catholic doctrine!

The gates of hell will NOT prevail!

The Catholic church was started in the upper room at Pentecost. People hate that. They hate all things Catholic! I am proud to be a Catholic. This church is guided by the Holy Spirit. It has Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition entwined. It has survived 2,000 years of stormy seas.

Major1 and his gang of merry men will not sink this ship!

Catholic (universal church) yes. Roman Catholic Church not so much.
God Bless
Jax

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The critical Truth found in the Bible is accessible only by the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

Correct...

The Holy Spirit guides the True Church, as indicated in Scripture, and is present in this Church: the Orthodox Church.

That's where you veer off the inspired record... I can provide more than a couple of verses showing the Holy Spirit coming upon individuals, not institutions. The argument that the individual cannot receive teaching from the Holy Ghost without help from a corporate structure does not square with Bible teaching.... if you remember it was the corporate Jewish structure that summarily failed. Do you think God's going to try it the same way again and expect a different result? That's what the Holy Ghost was given to us for, to move Gods' people from a corporate, works based experience to an individual, Grace based experience. Remember, the law is now being written on our heart.... that's personal not corporate. Remember Jesus teaching us to pray and repent directly to the Father in His name only? That's personal not corporate.

The need of men to control men is our most primal sinful instinct... pride and power always corrupt. Show me a religious or political kingdom that ever survived.... then see the folly of believing another ecclesiastical corporate body, with a multitude of recorded transgressions against it, is to be trusted in anyway to convey the humble, meek mission of Christ from palaces adorned with gold? From an institution that purposefully withheld the written Word from it's adherents? Please don't respond with the adage that God has lead the corporate church for fear of sounding like the Pharisees.

I think the records in Heaven will bear Righteous judgement upon those that oppressed and killed in God's name. Come out of her that you receive not of her plagues.

 

[prodromos]

That's where you veer off the inspired record... I can provide more than a couple of verses showing the Holy Spirit coming upon individuals, not institutions. The argument that the individual cannot receive teaching from the Holy Ghost without help from a corporate structure does not square with Bible teaching.... if you remember it was the corporate Jewish structure that summarily failed. Do you think God's going to try it the same way again and expect a different result?

The Pharisees and Sadducees did not have the Holy Spirit.

That's what the Holy Ghost was given to us for, to move Gods' people from a corporate, works based experience to an individual, Grace based experience. Remember, the law is now being written on our heart.... that's personal not corporate. Remember Jesus teaching us to pray and repent directly to the Father in His name only? That's personal not corporate.

Jesus taught us to pray "Our Father", not "My Father.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

So Paul distorted the truth? (1 Corinthians 1:11-13) This undermines the underlying theme of there are differing views in the Church.

Actually that verse supports the error of following another mans gospel and not Christ's. We have the teachings of Jesus for ourselves and need not be ashamed. If there was more to be given to us of Christ's core teachings, we would have received it through the gospels and the apostles only. The further you go out from that first hand experience, the more likey it is for error to creep in just as Jesus predicted it would.
Acts 20:29
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

And what is most essential besides the Gospel? As long as we can agree on that (and there are some that don't) then we can still come together and be united.

We can come together an reason together but unity cannot happen on just a few of the essential teachings.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

My problem with this is it puts each individual in the role of judge deciding which branches of Christianity properly believe what Jesus taught and which do not. I am content to accept that every Christian who can proclaim the Nicene Creed is doing their best to walk in the way of Jesus just as I am.

I believe what the Bible teaches as I know it's inspired... the ramblings of a few sinful men three hundred years removed from the scene, I don't have that same confidence... to say the least. Do I think they got it all wrong? Of course not but not all of it supported directly from scripture, some only opinions of it.

 

[redleghunter]

IF you have been on this web site for any length of time you have seen that most of the conversations and debates revolve around the conflict between the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith.

There is constant back and forth banter and in the end the difference is still there.
IT seems that the debates always disintegrate into personal combat and verbal wars with the moderators finally ending the thread and in fact I expect that same thing to happen to this thread.

It seems to me that the conflict comes from our basic human nature in dealing with fundamental disagreements concerning eternal truths. The Protestants understand that the RCC teaches a "work-gospel" that can not save and the Catholic church thinks that Protestants teach a "greasy - grace" gospel that requires nothing more than a simple confession of wrong doing/sin due to the emotional preaching of a man.

However, looking deeper than just that the question must be WHY?
In My Opinion the real rift that ignites the debate is rooted in AUTHORITY!

How anyone answers that question always determines the answers to all the other questions.
I think that every Catholic believer will agree that when it comes down to deciding a theological issue about defined Catholic dogma, there isn’t anything to discuss on the Catholic's side because once Rome speaks, it is settled.

Therefore we have the ROOT of the conflict. Whenever there is a theological discussion when trying to debate a Roman Catholic – reason and Scripture are not the Catholic’s final authority; they can always retreat into the “safe zone” of Roman Catholic Authority.

Because of this, the arguments between a Protestant and a Catholic will revolve around one's “private interpretation” of Scripture as against the "official teachings of the Roman Catholic Church."

Catholics claim to successfully avoid the legitimate problems of private interpretation by their reliance on their TRADITION. But that never satisfies the difference but instead merely pushes the question back a step. The truth is that both Roman Catholics and Protestants must, in the end, rely upon their reasoning abilities to choose their authority and their interpretive skills to understand what that authority teaches in order to determine what they will believe. IMO, Protestants are simply more willing to admit that this is the case.

Wow you posted this today and already 6 pages.

Can't wait to read it all.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The Pharisees and Sadducees did not have the Holy Spirit.

Jesus taught us to pray "Our Father", not "My Father.

Point being? I never claimed to be the only one that can access the Father.

The true church are all those that have been obedient to the light they had, not a corporate entity, not a denomination, not a building... the church is His people, wherever they are.

 

[redleghunter]

I think our baptist neighbor here is confused that not everybody buys into his notions of religious voluntarism.

Why would you think your neighbor is confused?

 

[redleghunter]

What is the difference between Tradition and the authority vested in the Pope?????

I would gather it would be the difference between Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodoxy.

 

[redleghunter]

Tradition comprises the teachings of our Lord Jesus and the Apostles that are not recorded in Sacred Scripture. You yourself believe some of that Tradition.

Edit: Actually, I think the above definition is technically incorrect from a Catholic perspective. We would consider Tradition to include both Sacred Scripture (written Tradition) and oral Tradition (the teachings not found in Scripture).

Do you have a list of the apostolic oral traditions we can't find in Sacred Scriptures?

 

[redleghunter]

Gee, if I were a Catholic I'd be offended by all the anti-Catholic statements in your post.

Are you Catholic?