Christmas is not a pagan holiday. It replaces Saturnalia which is a pagan holiday that was celebrated at the same time of year.
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
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Christmas is not a pagan holiday. It replaces Saturnalia which is a pagan holiday that was celebrated at the same time of year.
An Ancient HolidayAh yes. The "Christmas is pagan" posts are starting a little early this year. If Christmas, or any other Christian observance is, or was copied from, some pagan observance I would like to see some credible, verifiable, historical evidence showing that. I don't mean "There was this or that pagan observance about the same time of year so it must be." If the 21st century accusation is correct some faithful Christian somewhere, at or near the time had to have seen it and wrote about it.
Same ol' lame ol' copy/paste which I have seen scores of time right here and elsewhere. I have been active on this forum for 17 years. Not one historical document quoted to back up any of this. We have a few hundred years of the writings of the early church but not one mention of anything being copied from paganism.... This whole thing transpired over a long time, starting a long time ago in the third or fourth century. If you're looking for a newspaper article, you're out of luck. This is one of those things that you'll have to put together, or not, with your own neurotransmitters....
Same ol' lame ol' copy/paste which I have seen scores of time right here and elsewhere. I have been active on this forum for 17 years. Not one historical document quoted to back up any of this. We have a few hundred years of the writings of the early church but not one mention of anything being copied from paganism.
Saturnalia lasted from December 17th to December 23rd.
Christmas doesn't fall on any of the following days:
December 17th
December 18th
December 19th
December 20th
December 21st
December 22nd
December 23rd
The Feast of Christ's Nativity falls on December 25th, and the period of Christmastide lasts from the December 25th until January 5th. Twelve days. Perhaps people might have heard the song a time or two.
-CryptoLutheran
The Feast of Christ's Nativity falls on December 25th, and the period of Christmastide lasts from the December 25th until January 5th. Twelve days. Perhaps people might have heard the song a time or two.
Christmas is not a pagan holiday. It replaces Saturnalia which is a pagan holiday that was celebrated at the same time of year.
I have not participated in Christian forums since my submissions on this topic on June 21, 23, 25 & 27 ...
please refer to these as I still hold true to those submissions.
We are participating in Christian Forums.
What is a Christian?
Christ Jesus wants all mankind to be with Him for eternity and He gave a command…. PLUS the consequences if you don’t comply with it! John 3:3 Jesus answered him, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that unless a person is born again (anew, from above), he cannot EVER see (know, be acquainted with, and experience) the kingdom of God.
So a Christian is Christ-in. Paul clearly confirms this in Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ [in Him I have shared His crucifixion]; it is no longer I who live, but Christ (the Messiah) lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith in (by adherence to and reliance on and complete trust in) the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
So, how can a person be born again? We follow the example given by Jesus, which was part of Father’s plan to equip Him for His time on earth as a man. He obeyed Father and was baptised.
How was He baptised? Follow Jesus’ example … full immersion. …. When He came up out of the water, Father anointed Him with His Spirit .... He became Jesus Christ ... Jesus the Anointed One ... a new spiritual creation ... He left the carpenter (His previous self) behind in the water. Baptism is a step of faith (not an involuntary “sprinkling” as a babe), being washed clean of the old self so as to receive Lord Jesus’ free gift … His cancelling of all sin …. This can be done in a river, a lake, a pond … or even under a shower … it is a step of faith.
Any person that makes a deep commitment to Lord Jesus will, as Jesus was, be made a new (spiritual) creation ... 2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any person is [ingrafted ... attached spiritually] in Christ (the Messiah), he is a new creation (a new creature altogether); the old [previous moral and spiritual condition] has passed away. Behold, the fresh {and} new has come! … when a person is spiritually ingrafted into Lord Jesus, He starts to supply, moment by moment, all that He is and has …love, joy, peace, patience, , kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control (Gal 5:22-23)
What is the first quality? Love! We are told in Rom 8:39 Nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. ….. Yes, God is love and we receive Father’s love from Lord Jesus. What is (and isn’t) love? …. Read 1 Cor 13:4-8 …. Simple, take that step of faith, be baptised and Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit do the rest … simply rest IN the True Vine (John 15) ….the benefits of all this are …Read Rom 8:13-14.
Unfortunately in many of the submissions to Christian Forums, “flesh” is dominant and if the Word of God advises us that evil deeds come from the flesh, then we know that Satan is behind ALL fleshly directed thoughts, words and actions.
Soon after His baptism and His return from 40 days in the wilderness (likely planning the next 3 ½ years with Father ….plus repelling Satan), Christ Jesus announced His purpose (Read Luke 4:18-19) …. TO FREE THE CAPTIVES … His last words on the cross were “It is finished!” …. His purpose was accomplished …. AND is available for ANYONE that believes in Him (and makes the decision to be baptised … so Father’s Spirit can be with you moment by moment …. As He was with Christ Jesus.)
I trust in & rely on all supply and blessings from the Lord ... especially Mat 8:17 ...
He Himself took [in order to carry away] our weaknesses {and} infirmities and bore away our diseases.
... consequently I have not had even a headache, a cold or a "sore finger" for 26 years..... this took obedience on my part to Father's basic command ..... ask me & I will cover this on a separate reply.
Lord Jesus is the WORD of God ... He is also the TRUTH ... which sets us free ... if it is spoken by Father/Lord Jesus in the Bible, believe it (not your own logic/thoughts).
I hope, for the sake of everyone being blessed by participating in Christian Forums, that this message finds its way to all who participate & in Lord Jesus' name all fleshly deceptions are cast out.
So there I have nothing. I notice you did not cite any sources. Where is the credible, verifiable, historical evidence I asked for? That would be something written at or near the times in question by the person who said or did something or a direct eye witness.And sorry, read em and weep:Please provide credible, verifiable, historical evidence? Copy/pastes from random websites do not constitute such evidence.
I'm not interested in biased unsupported opinions. If you were able to you should have posted some credible, verifiable, historical evidence backing up your so-called "history."
And:
- Saturnalia grew in duration and moved to progressively later dates under the Roman period. During the reign of the Emperor Augustus (63 BC-AD 14), it was a two-day affair starting on December 17th.
- By the time Lucian described the festivities, it was a seven-day event.
- Changes to the Roman calendar moved the climax of Saturnalia to December 25th, around the time of the date of the winter solstice.
- Pagan Roman authorities tried to curtail Saturnalia; Emperor Caligula (AD 12-41) sought to restrict it to five days, with little success.
- Emperor Domitian (AD 51-96) may have changed Saturnalia’s date to December 25th in an attempt to assert his authority.
- So there you have it. This is one of those things that people know in their gut is wrong, they just don't want to accept it. It's too hard for them to reject the tradition that they've spent their lives in an erroneous pursuit of....
No, zero, none credible, verifiable, historical evidence. Once again that would be something written at or near the time in question, by the person who did or said something or a direct eye witness. Not something written in the 20th-21st century copy/pasted from some anonymous website.That's because this took place AFTER the times of Polycarp and Eugenius. So I'll guess you'll be awhile longer if you're looking for those kinds of documents.
But it's not too hard to reverse engineer the thing, Google is your friend. But again, it's one of those things that you'll have to figure out for yourself. Remember that the apostles warned us there would be a falling away from the ways of God.
"I hate, I reject your festivals, Nor do I delight in your solemn assemblies.You can also consider that Jesus never celebrated birthdays, and nobody celebrated His. Then look into where the practice of celebrating birthdays even originated. Can you picture Jesus or the disciples blowing out birthday cake candles?
So I find this from a TV station in Minneapolis. I doubt that the writters there would have a hidden agenda in place to try and mislead you.
• Why do we celebrate birthdays?
The idea of celebrating the date of your birth is a pagan tradition. In fact, many Christians didn’t celebrate birthdays historically, because of that link to paganism.
Pagans thought that evil spirits lurked on days of major changes, like the day you turn a year older.
The ancient Greeks believed that each person had a spirit that attended his or her birth, and kept watch. That spirit “had a mystic relation with the God on whose birthday the individual was born,” says the book The Lore of Birthdays.
• Why do we blow out candles on our birthday?
The candles were a response to the evil spirits. They showed up to communicate with the gods. A light, in the darkness.
The Germans are credited with starting the kids birthday tradition in the 1700s. They put candles on tortes for “kinderfeste,” one for each year of life, along with some extras to signify upcoming years.
Although research on the exact origin of birthdays and birthday cakes remains inconclusive, there is enough of a consensus to piece together an approximate history. Perhaps someday a Birthdayologist will come along to set the record completely straight, but until then, we've compiled this short list of historians' best hypotheses on the evolution of birthday celebrations and the delicious cakes that so often accompany them.
And the hits just keep on coming.
"Although research on the exact origin of birthdays and birthday cakes remains inconclusive, there is enough of a consensus to piece together an approximate history.
"Due to its belief that humans are born with "original sin" and the fact that early birthdays were tied to "pagan" gods, the Christian Church considered birthday celebrations evil for the first few hundred years of its existence. Around the 4th century, Christians changed their minds and began to celebrate the birthday of Jesus as the holiday of Christmas. This new celebration was accepted into the church partly in hopes of recruiting those already celebrating the Roman holiday of Saturnalia.
This Is Why You Get To Celebrate Your Birthday Every Year
In fact, during any search for an innocent phrase like: "the origin of Christmas", I never find an article like it was started by Mary Magdalene or some church women during the time of Polycarp. I'm always directed to the pagan European Saturnalia style winter festivals.
I don't think Google would be involved in a conspiracy. I know that the most popular links come up, but I'm a good searcher. I'll dig in for a couple pages of results. This is just one of those things that we don't want to be true due to our traditions of man. I was a kid too once. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
This Holiday Season, Celebrate Saturnalia!
And for anyone else who isn't sure that we're at the end on the road, checkout this link. Fertility rituals under the mistletoe, yeah right. Gimme a break.
10 Christmas Customs with Pagan Roots
And sorry, read em and weep:
- Please provide credible, verifiable, historical evidence? Copy/pastes from random websites do not constitute such evidence.
- I'm not interested in biased unsupported opinions. If you were able to you should have posted some credible, verifiable, historical evidence backing up your so-called "history."
And:
- Saturnalia grew in duration and moved to progressively later dates under the Roman period. During the reign of the Emperor Augustus (63 BC-AD 14), it was a two-day affair starting on December 17th.
- By the time Lucian described the festivities, it was a seven-day event.
- Changes to the Roman calendar moved the climax of Saturnalia to December 25th, around the time of the date of the winter solstice.
- Pagan Roman authorities tried to curtail Saturnalia; Emperor Caligula (AD 12-41) sought to restrict it to five days, with little success.
- Emperor Domitian (AD 51-96) may have changed Saturnalia’s date to December 25th in an attempt to assert his authority.
So there you have it. This is one of those things that people know in their gut is wrong, they just don't want to accept it. It's too hard for them to reject the tradition that they've spent their lives in an erroneous pursuit of.
The seven days are inclusive, from the 17th to the 23rd. Do you have any evidence that it was ever celebrated as a nine day feast?
Here's an article with plenty of citations from historical sources that is worth taking a gander at. And here are some historical sources:
Let us do just that i.e. "search out the roots of our Christmas traditions" the conclusion right there at the link you posted.Your author is simply quoting from other documents that are conflicting with the quotes from my author's sources: https://www.historytoday.com/matt-salusbury/did-romans-invent-christmas
And none of this is necessary to provide overwhelming proof of the evil and pagan origins of the Christmas celebration.
Just search out the roots of our Xmas traditions. Not all of them are from Saturnalia. But the others are just as depressing....
Your author is simply quoting from other documents that are conflicting with the quotes from my author's sources: https://www.historytoday.com/matt-salusbury/did-romans-invent-christmas
And none of this is necessary to provide overwhelming proof of the evil and pagan origins of the Christmas celebration.
Just search out the roots of our Xmas traditions. Not all of them are from Saturnalia. But the others are just as depressing.
10 Christmas Customs with Pagan Roots
Check this out.
Here is a real time indicator that provides the proof of the evil fruit that our X-mas "celebration" produces.
"The soul that sinneth,
it shall die.
"Researchers cannot explain the yearly spike.
After analyzing all official United States death certificates over the 25-year period between 1979 and 2004, a trio of sociologists identified an excess of 42,325 natural deaths — that is, above and beyond the normal seasonal winter increase — in the two weeks starting with Christmas.
In the article in the journal Social Science & Medicine, researchers David Phillips, Gwendolyn Barker and Kimberly Brewer report that mortality in general rises during the Christmas season.
Deaths in a hospital setting increase tremendously on the holidays themselves.
More people die in hospital emergency wards, or arrive dead on arrival, on Christmas, Boxing Day and New Year’s Day than on any other days of the year.
“It’s not trivial,” said Mr. Phillips, a professor of sociology at the University of California at San Diego. “We looked at all cause categories and, for nearly every one, we found an excess of deaths — particularly for people who are dying rapidly, like dead-on-arrival or dying in the emergency department.”
In general, Mr. Phillips said the team’s analysis of some 57.5-million death certificates shows the chance of dying during this holiday period increases “somewhere between 3% and 9%, depending on the demographic group you’re looking at, and somewhere between 1% and 10%, depending on what cause of death you’re looking at.”
Less clear are the reasons behind this fatal phenomenon.
With cancer, for example, the rise in Christmas and New Year’s emergency room and dead-on-arrival deaths is cancelled out by a drop in cancer deaths in other medical settings, such as in-patient clinics. Mr. Phillips said patients at the end of their lives are likely being transferred out of the hospital to die at home, but then brought to hospital when their conditions worsen toward the end.
With deaths from other causes, however, the increases are evident in every medical setting, leaving researchers to wonder what mechanism causes the calendar-specific spikes.
“It’s speculated that psychological stress can make a difference,” Mr. Phillips said. “But to make a difference so quickly and so precisely bang-on Christmas and [New Year’s Day], for a huge range of diseases, makes it seem unlikely as a broad-scale explanation.”
Other explanations tested include emergency department overcrowding, winter travel, cold weather and substance abuse, none of which offered convincing evidence of driving the trend.
http://nationalpost.com/news/christmas-the-deadliest-day-of-the-year-study
Postmedia News, with files from Adam McDowell, National Post
Many were pushing the September 23, 2017 rapture that has come and gone, based on the info you provide, what they gonna do now?Two examples of the mass deception currently in the world today are,
1 Easter .. which is a pagan term, Throughout the world it is recognised that Christ Jesus was placed in the tomb on Friday evening & arose on Sunday morning ...... a maximum of 36 hours ( 6+24+6) ... whereas Jesus stated ... Matt 12:40 For even as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. .... this indicates that He was placed in the tomb by Wednesday evening after being crucified, & arose at mid-night Saturday .... so the tomb could be seen open early Sunday morning (6+24+24+18 =72 hours ... three days and three nights) Relying on “Jewish thinking” of part of a day/night is a full day/night is deception ... it was the Jewish elders that had Christ Jesus crucified,
2. Birth date of Jesus. Nowhere in the Bible does it give an accurate mention of the day ... or even the year of Jesus’ birth. I believe so that “a big deal” is not made of His birth date .... His death & resurrection is when He overcame sin & death. Based on Bible information it indicates a likely date would be late September.
But, Constantine set December 25 as Jesus’ birth date (chosen to fit between to pagan festival times). Today, throughout the world, for many, many millions it is a time of lying to children about Santa (Satan) bringing presents “if you have been good” & thinking this is Jesus birth date.
December 25 could not have been anywhere near Jesus’ birth date .... in Bethlehem it snows in late December & Scripture tells us “the shepherds watched their flocks by night.”
Luke 2:7 And she gave birth to her Son, her Firstborn; and she wrapped Him in swaddling clothes and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room {or} place for them in the inn. Luke 2:8 And in that vicinity there were shepherds living [out under the open sky] in the field, watching [in shifts] over their flock by night.
This year it is predicted that on 23 September, that a once in 7000 year even will happen ... star constellations will be visible over Israel (& surrounds) depicting a virgin giving birth ... key in 23 September 2017 into your web browser for full details.
Tell that to the Israelite's killed for making a golden calf and dedicating to the Lord... God does not accept idol worship done in His name. Even the name Christ Mass is the ritual of killing Christ afresh, negating His one time atoning death on the cross.The origin of our celebrations is not the point at all. Christmas, or any other celebration, is what we make of it.