Liberal Christians

[ewq1938]

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I could have told you. Welcome to Burger King Christianity: have it your way. you like it.

I think during times like that, it would be appropriate to say...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Right.

We’re the Sinners. He’s the Sinless.

He gave Himself for ALL Humanity! Hebrews 2:9

I don't think you understood what I had said with Scripture.

 

[Sarah G]

Below is a link to a liberal analysis of this parable. I think it appropriate on this thread because it illustrates that liberal interpretations of scripture are very solidly based in sound scholarship. They are sometimes not appreciated because they contradict interpretations that have been accepted for a very long time. There are links further down in the article to similar reinterpretations of other parables:

The Talents: "The Fate of an Unlikely Hero"

Enjoy!

Great, thank you. It was interesting. I am going to have a read of some of the other Christian ponderings on that blog.

 

[Sarah G]

As someone with a disability I disagree about the self-sufficient part. I am high functioning but am on SSI and know I will never be able to work a full time job and make enough to support myself. What happened to make me the way I am was completely out of my control.

I am around people with various disabilities during a day program I attend. Some are high functioning like me but need support in certain areas. Others are very low functioning and are unable to make basic decisions like what to have for lunch. Those people are not going to ever be self-sufficient and will likely live in a group home after their parents die. I think it is vital to have programs and other options in place for people who cannot support themselves.

There are communities where people with disabilities can live and receive help with tasks. I am looking into one of those.

Others end up with a disability that leaves them in need of support after an accident or serious illness. That could be any one of us. I count my blessings that I am able to do what I can.

I will never be able to support myself fully, but I do trust God to guide me and that He has a plan for me. Which includes living in a place where I can be as independent as possible yet receive the help I need.

It sickens me that you even have to make this argument on a Christian forum. This is ridiculous. When Jesus healed people he didn't first ask them for a brief rundown of what they had done so far to try and help themselves or to explain how it happened to be sure they hadn't just crippled or blinded themselves to avoid working. Some people make me ashamed to even call myself a Christian, grrr.

 

[Violet Edge]

It sickens me that you even have to make this argument on a Christian forum. This is ridiculous. When Jesus healed people he didn't first ask them for a brief rundown of what they had done so far to try and help themselves or to explain how it happened to be sure they hadn't just crippled or blinded themselves to avoid working. Some people make me ashamed to even call myself a Christian, grrr.

dude, he/she willingly made that argument because he/she felt that the "self-sufficient" part of the post was made unclear and didn't address people with disabilities because it said "with few exceptions, obviously" (and disabilities was included in the "few exceptions"). If you read the earlier posts, you would know that it was resolved.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I don't really know what "liberal" and "conservative" are intended to mean in religion

It's a subject worth devoting some research into, for both religion and politics, historically from past to present. I wouldn't say either are necessarily easily defined, and there are variations of both. Also there is the practical side, what I mean by that is, a liberal may live their life more like a conservative, and a conservative may live their life more like a liberal. In other words, the mental life and practical life may not agree as they should, but we are all sinners. I have some close relatives who were democrats nearly their whole life, yet they always shared many republican values. Same could be said of an old high school friend of mine. I think for many, it's a matter of hierarchy of values, where certain values rank in relation to other values, and the values we treasure and hold onto, perhaps with our dear life. I hope when all is said and done, it can be said of me, "he held onto Christ, his Savior meant more to him than anything". The hope is there, but the flesh is terribly weak.

 

[GingerBeer]

I hope when all is said and done, it can be said of me, "he held onto Christ, his Savior meant more to him than anything". The hope is there, but the flesh is terribly weak.

I have a similar hope and a similar awareness of fleshly weakness.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

im a hardcore conservative Christian. I have always thought that conservative views go hand and hang with Christianity. Morals. Values. Standards. These are things I thought Christians should stand up for.

Hello, while I have always considered myself a conservative Christian (hardly comfortable saying it on these forums though), I've often found myself in one disagreement or another with other conservative Christians. At times it has felt as though I cannot hope to find anyone with whom to share agreement. For example, conservatives can be found on both ends of the Calvinism/Arminianism debate. As we know everyone including non-Christians have some sort of morals, values, standards. The difference being that we as Christians should (not that we always do or are consistent) place the highest value on morals derived from Scripture our standard and the unshakable basis of authoritative values. We should stand up for them, but most of us (myself included) fail in so many ways on so many different levels. Some of us fail so often, we might wonder what the point of even having certain values in the first place. There is an answer, but I'll move on.

I can understand how some economic views such as capitalism and like healthcare can be controversial for anyone (including Christians) but issues such as abortion, gay rights, transgenderism, islam, - aren't these topics that all Christian's should be consistent with opposing? I mean, the Bible does support opposing it...

Personally I am deeply concerned about my country as a whole (especially on the Islam issue), the direction we've been moving towards just in my lifetime. While certain aspects of those concerns can actually be considered improvements, I cannot help but think, at what cost? Even more troubling is, what am I willing to do about it, what can I do? The options are so limited, the opportunities so few, and alone I am weak and frail, like a flower quickly fading. For encouragement, I highly recommend, if you have not already, checking out the ministry of Jeff Durbin, of youtube it's Apologia Studios, the radio program is Apologia Radio, and somehow Jeff finds time to teach and preach. I truly admire the man, he takes it to the streets in ways I could never dream.

 

[Violet Edge]

Hello, while I have always considered myself a conservative Christian (hardly comfortable saying it on these forums though), I've often found myself in one disagreement or another with other conservative Christians. At times it has felt as though I cannot hope to find anyone with whom to share agreement. For example, conservatives can be found on both ends of the Calvinism/Arminianism debate. As we know everyone including non-Christians have some sort of morals, values, standards. The difference being that we as Christians should (not that we always do or are consistent) place the highest value on morals derived from Scripture our standard and the unshakable basis of authoritative values. We should stand up for them, but most of us (myself included) fail in so many ways on so many different levels. Some of us fail so often, we might wonder what the point of even having certain values in the first place. There is an answer, but I'll move on.



Personally I am deeply concerned about my country as a whole (especially on the Islam issue), the direction we've been moving towards just in my lifetime. While certain aspects of those concerns can actually be considered improvements, I cannot help but think, at what cost? Even more troubling is, what am I willing to do about it, what can I do? The options are so limited, the opportunities so few, and alone I am weak and frail, like a flower quickly fading. For encouragement, I highly recommend, if you have not already, checking out the ministry of Jeff Durbin, of youtube it's Apologia Studios, the radio program is Apologia Radio, and somehow Jeff finds time to teach and preach. I truly admire the man, he takes it to the streets in ways I could never dream.

Awesome!Thanks for the reply.

 

[Tom 1]

Re transgenderism, the EU appears to be trying to backdoor legislation into Latin American countries through a revised trade deal. More info and a petition against this move here: Europe aims to impose "Gender Ideology" on Latin America through trade deals

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Dude! You believe in “Republican”-“American” Jesus. That Jesus isn’t in the Bible.

Or maybe, just maybe she believes in a canon, you know, like 66 or so books making up what's called the Bible? Maybe just maybe she believes all those books are inspired by God, even the parts about you know, Law and kings? While I can't speak for her, I know I do. My God is one of order and hierarchies, laws, and well, He is sovereign over all governments, including republicans and democrats and everyone in between!

Dem. / Rep. has nothing to do with Jesus!

That's like saying Dem. / Rep. has nothing to do with morals, cause we know Jesus has nothing to do with morals, he's all hugs and not mean like that war mongering of the o.t....except that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah of the O.T., He is God, the eternal Son of God, one in the Godhead with the Father from all eternity. People seem to forget that Jesus himself said that he did not come to abolish the law or the prophets....yeah not so popular...us being sinners and all.

I’m largely disappointed by social ignorance amongst bible based Christians!

I'm disappointed too, with myself for taking the bait to respond. Let's consider that words carry meaningful concepts next time, and some of us are ashamed for a lack of social ignorance.

 

[tulipbee]

im a hardcore conservative Christian. I have always thought that conservative views go hand and hang with Christianity. Morals. Values. Standards. These are things I thought Christians should stand up for.

I can understand how some economic views such as capitalism and like healthcare can be controversial for anyone (including Christians) but issues such as abortion, gay rights, transgenderism, islam, - aren't these topics that all Christian's should be consistent with opposing? I mean, the Bible does support opposing it... so if Christians support scripture, why are some Christians liberal??? like shouldn't Christians be conservative?

I know a couple people who claim they are Christian but also have very liberal ideas. for example, this girl i met recently is basically a hardcore feminist, anti-trump, it seems her idealogy cannot support Christian values. This is just one example, I know so many Christians that are liberal. and i just dont understand

thoughts?

I dont wanna start a debate here, i am just genuinely concerned for the way our society is moving - LIBERAL.

I think liberalism started with a single tradition made by Roman denomination when they invented the papal system around 3rd century. liberalism is ancient. everyone got liberal when Saint Linus thought he was the continuing cornerstone of a denomination

 

[hedrick]

Okay, first off.. when we are talking about Liberal Christians, we are NOT talking about the way in which they interpret scripture. NO. Instead, we are talking about liberal beliefs, values, standards and how that does not support Christianity. Whereas conservative views do.

The general way people use "liberal" in religion is people who are willing to adopt new interpretations. Conservative means those who stick with the traditional understanding. I think you'll find that this agrees with how liberal and conservative are applied to Christians, Muslims, etc.

Within the context of Protestant Christianity, it does indeed have to do with how Scripture is understood, since liberal Christians generally base their views on Jesus' teachings. However they normally use current understandings of Jesus, which are based both on recent scholarship on 1st Cent Judaism, and a willingness to reconsider traditional views. Conservative views, by definition, are based on traditional interpretations of Scripture.

Liberals see themselves as continuing the work of Luther and Calvin. Everything conservatives today say about liberals was said by Catholics about Luther, and for the same reason. Luther's views were based on new scholarship (e.g. the use of Greek rather than the Latin translation) and a willingness to reexamine tradition. He was accused of rejecting Christianity, because everyone knew that what scripture really taught was <insert late medieval Catholic interpretation>.

 

[tulipbee]

liberalism was started by Roman denominations when they rejected those that protested them. protestants rejected liberalism. today we have groups of people who abuse the name, "church". like same sex abuses the name, "marriage".

What does the bible, alone as in sola scriptura, have to say about liberalism?

 

[Grip Docility]

Or maybe, just maybe she believes in a canon, you know, like 66 or so books making up what's called the Bible? Maybe just maybe she believes all those books are inspired by God, even the parts about you know, Law and kings? While I can't speak for her, I know I do. My God is one of order and hierarchies, laws, and well, He is sovereign over all governments, including republicans and democrats and everyone in between!



That's like saying Dem. / Rep. has nothing to do with morals, cause we know Jesus has nothing to do with morals, he's all hugs and not mean like that war mongering of the o.t....except that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah of the O.T., He is God, the eternal Son of God, one in the Godhead with the Father from all eternity. People seem to forget that Jesus himself said that he did not come to abolish the law or the prophets....yeah not so popular...us being sinners and all.



I'm disappointed too, with myself for taking the bait to respond. Let's consider that words carry meaningful concepts next time, and some of us are ashamed for a lack of social ignorance.

For precision... Orthodox and every stance that follows in between and on the opposite side of the spectrum would be the theological verbiage.

When I say “republican”-“Jesus”... you know what I am saying. But, Jesus was not a politician. He is the King of Kings.

The issue with orthodoxy is that Paul asked if Christ is divided. All systematic theology is false! It attempts to speak for the Holy Spirit. Orthodoxy binds to systematic theology. Okay... like what? Systematic Universal (Catholicism)? Is that Roman Catholic? Reformed doctrine? Double Predestination? Open Theology? It’s all false divisiveness...

Let’s look at true orthodox delivery of the Holy Spirit...

Acts 2:14-41 To Israel and resulting in Pentecost

Romans 8

1 Corinthians 15

There are other passages; but... there’s no need to conflate modern politics with Christ Jesus! Agendas that empty the cross of its power and men struggling to harness that emptied power are to blame! How do we know? History!

Sanhedrin in power when Christ came? Perfect example!

Dispensational... Covenant view... this all leads to cynical understanding that brings division.

However... I managed to elude to all of this in three sentences or so. I was going for succinct. Theological extrapolation is of no real assistance than to disagree and debate or in a perfect world... agree to disagree, while being understood and understanding.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hello, while I have always considered myself a conservative Christian (hardly comfortable saying it on these forums though), I've often found myself in one disagreement or another with other conservative Christians. At times it has felt as though I cannot hope to find anyone with whom to share agreement. For example, conservatives can be found on both ends of the Calvinism/Arminianism debate. As we know everyone including non-Christians have some sort of morals, values, standards. The difference being that we as Christians should (not that we always do or are consistent) place the highest value on morals derived from Scripture our standard and the unshakable basis of authoritative values. We should stand up for them, but most of us (myself included) fail in so many ways on so many different levels. Some of us fail so often, we might wonder what the point of even having certain values in the first place. There is an answer, but I'll move on.

I believe standing behind the Moral values of Scripture will lead one to not agree with Calvinism. But that is my conviction under the Spirit when reading the Scriptures. In fact, many today think that Jesus gives them a license to sin on some level (Whether it be many sins or one or two sins). Granted, many of them will not admit to this, but that is basically what their theology teaches. For many will say that all their past, present, and future sin is forgiven them (So living holy is optional). But it doesn't work like that. Granted, we are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace. But grace is not a license to sin but a means to overcome sin (i.e. obedience to the commands primarily in the New Testament, and not the Old Testament).

In fact, I believe it is possible to walk holy and upright in this life (While most seem to think we will live in an endless get dirty and then get clean wash cycle our whole lives). While I have not attained yet a walk of perfection like I see certain men of God have, I am still praying and believing that one day I will. Here is a link to another thread I created here (at Christians Forums) that talks about this. A noteable Pastor who currently stands behind this teaching is Pastor Alan Ballou. His YouTube video page can be found here.

Anyways, may God bless you;
And may you please be well.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

You can request that by using the "report" function.

If you simply want to condemn liberals, a number of theology or debate groups might be appropriate. If you want actual responses to the OP, it's probably not possible other than in the Liberal group. But there it would have to look like someone was seriously interested in understanding Liberal Christianity. Simply condemning it would not be permitted.

My personal view is that liberal Christianity is based on Scripture, whereas conservative Christianity unintentionally imports traditional cultural values. But Christian Advice is not the place to justify that.

Then liberal needs to be defined, which is lacking, but is assumed to be what it denotes in the West.

A few questions for anyone:

Do you oppose

1. Homosexual marriage?
   
2. Transgender surgery under certain conditions?
3. Sexual relations before marriage?
   
4. Cohabitation as a alternative to marriage?
5. Abortion outside (perhaps) of danger to life?
6. Forbidding any corporal discipline of children, if warranted and conditional?
7. Forbidding government to sanction any prayer or affirmation of any religion in general?
   
8. Forbidding artists the right to refuse to create works for causes that offend them?
9. Forbidding citizens rights to bear arms, if conditional (type and vetting)
   
10. Forbidding capital punishment (even as per criteria in Scripture, but with exclusion for religious crimes)?
11. Rejection of any positional/functional distinctions btwn male and female in marriage and church government?
12. Open borders?
13. Increased Muslim immigration?
    
14. Equal rights and benefits to illegal immigrants?
    
15. Increased government spending on social programs per capita?
    
16. Smaller military?
    
17. Rejection of the any just war premise?
18. Increased funding for the EPA
19. Increased funding for the UN?
20. Forbidding "Right to work" statutes?

I think (if I have worded these correctly) I oppose all these.

 

[Grip Docility]

I might be shot for putting this out there... but Most... Most ... Politicized Christianity stands on the back of Calvinism... which is white washed Augustinianism.

The two factors are moral superiority and reduction of Christ’s intent when dying on the cross. I.E. Hebrews 2:9 is thrown in the trash. The ALL men part is obfuscated and lied about!

Why does the Bible need a Manmade Translation via creeds and Denominations? So political entities can usurp power more effectively!

Eastern Orthodoxy? Does the word divorce ring a bell?

It’s either the Gospel that saves sinners, or it is another gospel that is being misleveraged to bring Division!

That’s my opinion.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

The general way people use "liberal" in religion is people who are willing to adopt new interpretations. Conservative means those who stick with the traditional understanding. I think you'll find that this agrees with how liberal and conservative are applied to Christians, Muslims, etc.

Within the context of Protestant Christianity, it does indeed have to do with how Scripture is understood, since liberal Christians generally base their views on Jesus' teachings. However they normally use current understandings of Jesus, which are based both on recent scholarship on 1st Cent Judaism, and a willingness to reconsider traditional views. Conservative views, by definition, are based on traditional interpretations of Scripture.

Liberals see themselves as continuing the work of Luther and Calvin. Everything conservatives today say about liberals was said by Catholics about Luther, and for the same reason. Luther's views were based on new scholarship (e.g. the use of Greek rather than the Latin translation) and a willingness to reexamine tradition. He was accused of rejecting Christianity, because everyone knew that what scripture really taught was <insert late medieval Catholic interpretation>.

Details at 11?