Why no evidence FOR creation/ID?

[Speedwell]

So it's OK for God to be a liar in the content of 'All Scripture is breathed out by God....' (2 Tim 3:16 ESV)?

Why would that make God a liar?

What causes you to believe the description of the universe in Gen 1 and 2 is not accurate? Which measure do you use to throw out a certain % of the creation stories as being inaccurate?

They are only "inaccurate" if they were intended to be accurate literal history to begin with.

Please direct me to where I stated that.

You didn't. It was in the article you linked to.

"In the end, we simply have no place to go other than the Bible as God’s authoritative revelation. Christ, not the Bible, is the foundation of our faith — but our only authoritative and infallible source of knowledge about Christ is the Bible."

Is there only one way to eternal salvation or are there many ways?

There is only one way--through Christ. Doesn't your church teach that?

In my part of the world, there are generally two expressions of Anglicanism: (1) Anglo-Catholic, and (2) Evangelical.

Here there are three, that is, those two and the slipshod liberalism of the Episcopal Church.

However, from the Thirty Nine Articles, the foundation of Anglicanism, we know that it is a Protestant denomination by way of doctrine.

Written when the church was under the baleful influence of Calvinism. No one pays them much attention any more.

Like many denominations that started out evangelical Protestant, they have moved to teaching false doctrine of liberalism, postmodernism, etc. As you know, the Anglicans/Episcopalians are one such denomination.

Indeed, that is why I left the Episcopal Church for Anglo-Catholicism.

In Australia, the Sydney Diocese of the Anglican Church is evangelical, as are certain regions of the Melbourne Diocese. But here in Queensland it's another story, like the rest of Australian Anglicanism. It's liberal through and through. However, there are glimmers of light, like that of an Anglican church near me that is evangelical - North Pine Anglican Church.

Can't readily tell from their website--do they preach belief in the literal inerrancy of scripture and YECism as necessary to salvation? Do they preach a right-wing extremist political agenda? If not, then they may indeed be a source of light.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's what I believe, that God created "every living creature that moveth" through the action of His natural laws.

What natural laws gave us angels?

 

[OzSpen]

...because 'universe goes along, then humans start existing for reasons where they didn't before' is a valid history of time? Because the universe and humans can have different starting times?

That's your evolutionary hypothesis that needs to be tested.

Please direct me to a fossil of a transition species between a chimpanzee and a human being.

You state: ''universe goes along, then humans start existing for reasons where they didn't before'.

Who or what gave them reasons to 'start existing'? Or, is there no directed purpose in the universe?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Why would that make God a liar?

If God is not 100% in Scriptural account of creation - as you maintain - that means his statements contain falsehoods. He's a liar, but by whose standards?

Please refer me to links that state one must be a YECreationist to be saved.

Oz

 

[Speedwell]

If God is not 100% in Scriptural account of creation - as you maintain - that means his statements contain falsehoods. He's a liar, but by whose standards?

That seems a little garbled and I am not quite sure what you mean. But let me put it this way: Genesis can only fail at being accurate literal history if it was meant to be accurate literal history.

Please refer me to links that state one must be a YECreationist to be saved.

Oz

I am referring to my experience with YECists here in the US--on this board and elsewhere. We have even had here in the last month or so Bible Christians who maintain that not only is belief in the literal inerrancy of Genesis necessary for salvation, it is sufficient. Quite shocked by it I was.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Who or what gave them reasons to 'start existing'? Or, is there no directed purpose in the universe?

Correct, there is no directed purpose.

 

[Jimmy D]

That's your evolutionary hypothesis that needs to be tested.

Please direct me to a fossil of a transition species between a chimpanzee and a human being.

You state: ''universe goes along, then humans start existing for reasons where they didn't before'.

Who or what gave them reasons to 'start existing'? Or, is there no directed purpose in the universe?

Oz

Do you think that there's an "evolutionary hypothesis" that suggests humans evolved from chimpanzees?

 

[Gene2memE]

Please direct me to a fossil of a transition species between a chimpanzee and a human being.

Thank you for pointing out, oh so aptly, you have no idea about the topic you're attempting to critique.

Here's a clue: Humans and chimpanzees share a common ancestor.

 

[AV1611VET]

Here's a clue: Humans and chimpanzees share a common ancestor.

No, we share a common designer.

 

[Jimmy D]

No, we share a common designer.

"Common designer" - What does that even mean? The designer is common? Are there other designers to take into consideration?

 

[OzSpen]

Correct, there is no directed purpose.

Herman,

So are you excited about their being no purpose in life for you personally?

Since there is no purpose in the universe and human beings (what you are suggesting), then it's OK for Hitler to enact the slaughter in the Holocaust, the terrorists to smash aeroplanes into the twin towers on Sept 11, 2001, for paedophiles to rape children, etc.

If there is no purpose in the universe, anything a person chooses to do is acceptable.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Do you think that there's an "evolutionary hypothesis" that suggests humans evolved from chimpanzees?

Jimmy,

It's not an hypothesis that I would pursue because I do not see evidence for it reported by researchers of the fossil record.

Please show me examples of transition species from chimpanzees to human beings in the fossil record.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

No, we share a common designer.

Do you mean that all human beings were created by the Creator of the universe and all things in it? Are you suggesting that God is the creator of the first human beings and He designed all human beings?

 

[Jimmy D]

Jimmy,

It's not an hypothesis that I would pursue because I do not see evidence for it reported by researchers of the fossil record.

Please show me examples of transition species from chimpanzees to human beings in the fossil record.

Oz

It's not a hypothesis anyone would pursue, because no one thinks humans evolved from chimpanzees. I think you need to learn a bit about the TOE before you attempt to debate it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you mean that all human beings were created by the Creator of the universe and all things in it?

Yes.

Are you suggesting that God is the creator of the first human beings and He designed all human beings?

Yes.

As Luke put it:

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

 

[Jimmy D]

Yes.

Yes.

As Luke put it:

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

I thought you'd been warned against giving heed to endless genealogies?

 

[Herman Hedning]

Herman,

So are you excited about their being no purpose in life for you personally?

Since there is no purpose in the universe and human beings (what you are suggesting), then it's OK for Hitler to enact the slaughter in the Holocaust, the terrorists to smash aeroplanes into the twin towers on Sept 11, 2001, for paedophiles to rape children, etc.

If there is no purpose in the universe, anything a person chooses to do is acceptable.

That is a very strange viewpoint that, unfortunately, many christians seem to take. That there is no directed purpose for life, the universe, and everything (except for 42) does of course not mean that my life and actions can't have purpose and meaning to myself as well as to those I interact with.

As for your nonsense about terrorists, Hitler, and paedophiles - no, just no. Don't go there ...

 

[Divide]

That is a very strange viewpoint that, unfortunately, many christians seem to take. That there is no directed purpose for life, the universe, and everything (except for 42) does of course not mean that my life and actions can't have purpose and meaning to myself as well as to those I interact with.

As for your nonsense about terrorists, Hitler, and paedophiles - no, just no. Don't go there ...

What's your SQ? (spiritual quotient)...

Decades ago, it was only IQ that was thought to be the only valid form of intelligence. Then fast forward to 1990s and we were introduced to the concept of emotional intelligence – we were told that how we manage our emotions could potentially be even more important than our IQ. And then came 2000, our understanding of the facets of intelligence was further broadened when the idea of spiritual intelligence emerged.

But what exactly is spiritual quotient (SQ)? And why is SQ even more important in today’s era? How can our understanding of SQ help us in addressing modern-day problems such as insensitivity – or even terrorism?
(source): Philosophy as a Way of Life: What is Spiritual Quotient? | Psychreg

I think this is valid consideration for us on this world. I knew of it before, but had never heard the term SQ. Then I ran across the term and read up on it a little, and...I wonder if the Missouri types (show me) have considered the reality of the spiritual realm and it's influence upon us in our lives here on this planet.

 

[Gene2memE]

Jimmy,

It's not an hypothesis that I would pursue because I do not see evidence for it reported by researchers of the fossil record.

Please show me examples of transition species from chimpanzees to human beings in the fossil record.

Oz

The question is malformed. It's so broken it's not something that can be answered.

The evidence indicates a common ancestor between chimps and humans. That means that there are no "transitional species from chimpanzees to humans in the fossil record", as humans are not ancestrally descended from chimpanzees.

 

[Aman777]

Why would it mean that? Science is pretty clear that humans did indeed evolve from a precursor primate.

Science is willingly ignorant of the Fact that Adam's world was totally and completely destroyed (Greek-perished) in the flood. ll Peter 3:6 We live today in the 2nd Heaven, which will be burned. ll Peter 3:10 This ignorance makes scientists falsely assume that Humans MUST have evolved from Apes instead of coming to our Earth in the Ark. Soon, the discoveries of Science in the last days will refute (prove wrong) their "belief" in the ToE.

The reason is simple. Noah's grandsons had NO other Humans (descendants of Adam) to marry. They married and produced children with the prehistoric people who had been on our planet for Millions of years BEFORE the Ark arrived. Like Cain, on Adam's Earth, Noah's grandsons produced other Humans (some 7 billion today) with prehistoric people. Gen 6:4 That is God's Truth Scripturally, scientifically and historically.

Today's Humans have the unique superior intelligence of God Gen 3:22 AND the genetics of people who descended from the common ancestor of Apes.