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Sabbath and Law-Keepers - Gracious convo please!

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BobRyan

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Yes follow the commandments of Jesus, not Moses. .

And the teaching of Jesus was...

Mark 7

6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”

9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
 
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BobRyan

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So you would agree that there is no commandment in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath?

I would agree there is no commandment in the New Testament that says "hey.. you gentiles I the LORD your God command you to not take God's name in vain ... just like in all ages " ... and that such a detail "does not matter" ... it has no merit for the argument that gentiles can ignore that commandment.

Obviously.

And that all such "gaming the text" is not "sola scriptura" testing but merely gaming.

So if you still believe that a specific verse exists in the NT that commands Christians to observe the Sabbath, then where is it? Either it is there or it is not there.

More Sabbath commandment quotes and references in the NT than for "Do not take God's name in vain".

Game over.
 
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bekkilyn

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More Sabbath commandment quotes and references in the NT than for "Do not take God's name in vain".

Then why is it so difficult for anyone to point out precisely where the commandment in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath is? If it's there, someone should have been able to find it.
 
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BobRyan

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Actually, I'm not particularly concerned whether or not the taking God's name in vain commandment exists in the NT

Precisely!!

So if you still believe that a specific verse exists in the NT that commands Christians to observe the Sabbath, then where is it? Either it is there or it is not there.

Didn't you just say you did not care if commandments of God like "do not take God's name in vain" are repeated or not in the NT?
 
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BobRyan

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Actually, I'm not particularly concerned whether or not the taking God's name in vain commandment exists in the NT

Precisely!!

Then why is it so difficult for anyone to point out precisely where the commandment in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath is? If it's there, someone should have been able to find it.

Didn't you just say you did not even care if Commandments of God such as "do not take God's name in vain" are repeated in the NT?
 
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BobRyan

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I have been informed a number of times that this command for Christians to observe the Sabbath exists in the NT,

I think that is fair to say.


Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW testament says "EVERY SABBATH" the met for Gospel preaching for BOTH Jews AND Gentiles Acts 18:4
Unlike Week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "Almost the ENTIRE CITY turned up the Next Sabbath" to hear the Gospel - Acts 13
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4... there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God -- remains as it was in the time of David in Psalms 95 according to Hebrews 4.

It is not just that Rev 14:7 quotes the Exodus 20:11 portion of the Sabbath commandment

This is called "not mentioning the Sabbath anywhere in the NT or showing Gospel preaching specific to the Sabbath" in some threads.

=======================

By contrast - you have no such list for "do not take God's name in vain" in the NT
It is very much a strawman to try to tell us there is no verse to "keep" Sunday in the New Testament.

Your opinion "noted". Meanwhile I have given very explicit examples of what we do find for God's Sabbath commandment and how it is that we do not have that for week-day-1


What is really true there is no verse or command in the New Testament to "keep" any day.


Nor a New Testament quote of the commandment "do not take God's name in vain"

Absolutely none of the verses you keep quoting over and over are commands in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath.

hmmm you still have not found one single text saying "hey you gentiles - I the Lord your God command you once again to not take God's name in vain... even after the cross".

I think we have noticed that.

what I am looking for is the verse that states the *specific* command that obligates Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Because you have already given up looking for a text that says -- "hey you gentiles - I the Lord your God command you once again to not take God's name in vain... even after the cross".??


Surely it's in there somewhere though, so you will just have to keep looking.

That isn't what was asked. No one here has ever said the sabbath isn't mentioned in the NT. .

If you pay attention to the actual details in that discussion there are two claims being made

1. no text in the NT says "hey gentiles I the LORD your God command you to keep My Sabbath Commandment this is specifically for you gentiles"
2. no text in the NT says "hey you gentiles I the LORD your God command you to not take my name in vain -- this is specifically for you gentiles"

Same could be said of "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

The point remains.

Actually, I'm not particularly concerned whether or not the taking God's name in vain commandment exists in the NT

Precisely!!

because Christians are not under the law, but under grace.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with giving Christians permission to take God's name in vain.

In fact "in the NEW Testament" we have this "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 and IN that context we have "these things I write to you that you SIN Not" 1 John 2:1.

Because even in the NEW testament the SAME law as in Jeremiah 31:31-33 is "Written on the heart and mind" -- STILL -- in the New testament -- Hebrews 8:6-10... verbatim of Jer 31... unchanged.

And in the NEW Testament the lost "do not submit to the LAW of God - indeed they CAN not" Romans 8:4-9 -- by contrast to the saints who "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith! God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

All of which would be "the easy part" of "Bible details" that BOTH sides of the Sabbath vs Sunday discussion freely admit.

It just does not "get" any easier than this friends!
 
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BobRyan

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So you would agree that there is no commandment in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath?

I would agree there is no commandment in the New Testament that says "hey.. you gentiles I the LORD your God command you to not take God's name in vain ... just like in all ages " ... and that such a detail "does not matter" ... it has no merit for the argument that gentiles can ignore that commandment.

Obviously.

And that all such "gaming the text" is not "sola scriptura" testing but merely gaming.

So if you still believe that a specific verse exists in the NT that commands Christians to observe the Sabbath, then where is it? Either it is there or it is not there.

More Sabbath commandment quotes and references in the NT than for "Do not take God's name in vain".

Game over.

Then why is it so difficult for anyone to point out precisely where the commandment in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath is? If it's there, someone should have been able to find it.

Turns out -- this is not all that hard to post.

Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW testament says "EVERY SABBATH" the met for Gospel preaching for BOTH Jews AND Gentiles Acts 18:4
Unlike Week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "Almost the ENTIRE CITY turned up the Next Sabbath" to hear the Gospel - Acts 13
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4... there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God -- remains as it was in the time of David in Psalms 95 according to Hebrews 4.

It is not just that Rev 14:7 quotes the Exodus 20:11 portion of the Sabbath commandment

This is called "not mentioning the Sabbath anywhere in the NT or showing Gospel preaching specific to the Sabbath" in some threads.

=======================

By contrast - you have no such list for "do not take God's name in vain" in the NT

and we both know it.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Where was that claim made?

Hiya, Bob....hope everything is going well for you.The “work
No text in the Bible supports the idea of abstaining from secular work 7 days a week.

As Paul said "if anyone will not work neither let him eat" 2 Thess 3:10



I find your logic "illusive" at that point.

The Bible Sabbath was and still is -- a day to worship God and refrain from secular work.. see the actual Command of God.

and for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23



so then you "are" or you "are not" actually reading the post that you reference??


Wow....a five year old could have gotten the point of this..this ain’t about your job at the local McDonald’s...it’s saying you don’t h@ve to work for your salvation...Jesus has done all the work needed to save the souls who trust in His finished work.I think ol’ Bob is just messing with us.” Nobody is this brain-dead!
 
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bekkilyn

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Hiya, Bob....hope everything is going well for you.The “work



Wow....a five year old could have gotten the point of this..this ain’t about your job at the local McDonald’s...it’s saying you don’t h@ve to work for your salvation...Jesus has done all the work needed to save the souls who trust in His finished work.I think ol’ Bob is just messing with us.” Nobody is this brain-dead!

No, I believe he's sincere. It's the doctrine he's been taught and standard for his denomination. He's also likely had it reinforced over and over that other perspectives on this issue is "of the devil" and that we can't see "the truth" because all other denominations are apostate and are being deceived. He probably is very concerned for our salvation the way he views it.
 
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Doug Melven

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??Your claim is that Christians never sin??
The real me does not sin. 1 John 3:6-9
3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
These verses say we cannot sin. Some people try to say that word for "commit" should be "practice".
But the Greek word here is poieo, (G4160) not prasso(G4238)
A primary verb; to practise that is perform repeatedly or habitually (thus differing from G4160 which properly refers to a single act); by implication to execute accomplish etc.; specifically to collect (dues) fare(personally): - commit deeds do exact keep require use arts.

Also if the word was practice, that would mean God could sin as long as He doesn't make a practice of it.
I don't know about you, but I am not ready to go there.

When you see a Blood-bought Christian, with your physical eyes you are not looking at the real person.
You can only see the outer man, not the spirit that is one with God. 1 Cor 6:12
 
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BobRyan

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The real me does not sin. 1 John 3:6-9
3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil;

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

John says it is in the "doing" not merely the imagining... hopefully all can agree on the basics

of course many will ask -- will rebellion against God - cause a problem for the saints, those who choose to "be not deceived".

1 Cor 6 answers the question... so also does 1 John 3 and both begin with "do not be deceived".

1 Cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you t... 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
 
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BobRyan

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Wow....a five year old could have gotten the point of this..this ain’t about your job at the local McDonald’s...it’s saying you don’t h@ve to work for your salvation

We can all agree that you don't have to work to earn salvation -- all have sinned all need the free gift of salvation via the Gospel. But it is "conflation" and "abuse" of the text to argue that "six days you shall labor but the seventh day the Sabbath of the LORD your God" was God telling us to work for our salvation six days a week, to try to find some other way and only on the 7th day of each week to seek after God.

I think we all can admit to this Bible basic.

...Jesus has done all the work needed to save the souls who trust in His finished work.

True - but Paul was not referencing that when he said "if a man will not work - neither let him eat" .. as we all know
 
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Doug Melven

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ohn says it is in the "doing" not merely the imagining... hopefully all can agree on the basics
Where did "imagining" come from?

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Because we are righteous, we can do righteousness. The doing of righteousness does not make us righteous.
 
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BobRyan

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And we are made righteous through *Jesus* and not through the law.

We are not talking about being made righteous - we are talking about the fact that rebellion against God is not the path to eternal life for Christians as we see in 1 Cor 6.

And Romans 2

you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
 
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klutedavid

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We are not talking about being made righteous - we are talking about the fact that rebellion against God is not the path to eternal life for Christians as we see in 1 Cor 6.

And Romans 2

you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
Hello Bob.

Excellent choice of verses to quote, I love the letter to the Romans.

Romans 2:14-15
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts.

Bob, you need to read the verses carefully, so you don't miss what they are really saying.

'Gentiles who do not have the law', Paul has told us that Gentiles were not given the law.

Gentiles, 'not having the law', Paul repeats the obvious, Gentiles don't have the law.

You can't get around the plain reading of the text.

Matthew 7:12
In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Why did God make the Gospel to the Gentiles so incredibly simple, I think He really does love us!
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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We can all agree that you don't have to work to earn salvation -- all have sinned all need the free gift of salvation via the Gospel. But it is "conflation" and "abuse" of the text to argue that "six days you shall labor but the seventh day the Sabbath of the LORD your God" was God telling us to work for our salvation six days a week, to try to find some other way and only on the 7th day of each week to seek after God.

I think we all can admit to this Bible basic.



True - but Paul was not referencing that when he said "if a man will not work - neither let him eat" .. as we all know


Simply unbelievable!.....who on earth is talking about physical work,or eating or anything else.I am talking about working for your salvation by attaching oneself to the burden——the heavy load” as Jesus put it...that heavy yoke of trying to keep the law that Jesus destroyed with His shed blood in order to be saved.Jesus did the work....rest in tha fact ......and for the legalist-in-residence.......that does not mean we can “take the name of the Lord in vain”.....if we did God would chastise us.....at the same time because of grace we do not lose our salvation.......can hardly wait to see how the legalists twist this one.....they always find a way “and we all know it”......sorry Bob, you may be sincere ,but will “sincerity” be worth anything on Judgement Day....if we,like Cain try to offer up our “works”.......I prefer to emulate Abel and go with the blood....an illustration of salvation without works as old as mankind
 
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And the teaching of Jesus was...

Mark 7

6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”

9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
Well keep trying to condemn me. Romans 8:1 says you and the law can't. The interesting thing about your passage of condemnation is since you claim to keep the law (sabbath) it condemns you. Your sabbath keeping is an amended version of the Exodus 20:8-11 making it nothing more than a tradition.
 
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I would agree there is no commandment in the New Testament that says "hey.. you gentiles I the LORD your God command you to not take God's name in vain ... just like in all ages " ... and that such a detail "does not matter" ... it has no merit for the argument that gentiles can ignore that commandment.

Obviously.

And that all such "gaming the text" is not "sola scriptura" testing but merely gaming.



More Sabbath commandment quotes and references in the NT than for "Do not take God's name in vain".

Game over.
Now which passage did you say tells us to keep the sabbath in the NT?
 
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