Sabbath and Law-Keepers - Gracious convo please!

[BobRyan]

Then you have no argument.

You are welcomed to make an actual point.

 

[BobRyan]

Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 in the New Earth for all eternity after the cross

If Jesus meant what you want us to believe, He contradicts Moses in Exodus 31:13, 17 and can't be the Savior.

Totally false.

 

[BobRyan]

We believers are not of this earth. John 15:19
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
We are not like mankind, we are born from above. That is why Paul can say 1 Tim 1:8
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,

If you are sinless then the law does not show you to be a sinner and you do not need the Gospel.

But in real life -- all have sinned.

Thus it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain ... even for Christians.

 

[Doug Melven]

f you are sinless then the law does not show you to be a sinner and you do not need the Gospel.

But in real life -- all have sinned.

I, by the Blood of Jesus Christ have been declared innocent..
God's Word says the law is not made for a righteous man. He made me righteous through the sacrifice of Christ.
Now if I sin, that doesn't undo what Christ did for me, and make me unrighteous and in need of the law.
If it did, then the statement, "the law was not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient" would be superfluous and should read, "the law is made for a righteous man and the lawless and disobedient".
I am not willing to make any part of God's Word superfluous.

 

[klutedavid]

If you are sinless then the law does not show you to be a sinner and you do not need the Gospel.

But in real life -- all have sinned.

Thus it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain ... even for Christians.

Hello Bob.

Your staring at your own sinful condition and not looking to Christ.

If any sin stopped the reconciliation of the Christ, then we are all lost.

In Christ you cannot sin, lock that in Bob and stop gazing into your own weak flesh.

 

[bekkilyn]

I think that is fair to say.


Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW testament says "EVERY SABBATH" the met for Gospel preaching for BOTH Jews AND Gentiles Acts 18:4
Unlike Week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "Almost the ENTIRE CITY turned up the Next Sabbath" to hear the Gospel - Acts 13
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4... there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God -- remains as it was in the time of David in Psalms 95 according to Hebrews 4.

It is not just that Rev 14:7 quotes the Exodus 20:11 portion of the Sabbath commandment

This is called "not mentioning the Sabbath anywhere in the NT or showing Gospel preaching specific to the Sabbath" in some threads.

=======================

By contrast - you have no such list for "do not take God's name in vain" in the NT

Absolutely none of the verses you keep quoting over and over are commands in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath. If I just wanted verses that just had the word "Sabbath" in them, I could easily look them up in a concordance, but what I am looking for is the verse that states the *specific* command that obligates Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Something like, "Thus sayeth the Lord to the Jews and Gentiles in the Churches, remember when you were slaves in the land of Egypt and the Lord delivered you with a mighty hand and outstretched arm, so you must observe the Sabbath every week as the Lord your God commanded you, so that your animals and male and female slaves may rest as well as you."

Surely it's in there somewhere though, so I'll just have to keep looking.

 

[BobRyan]

I have been informed a number of times that this command for Christians to observe the Sabbath exists in the NT,

I think that is fair to say.


Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW testament says "EVERY SABBATH" the met for Gospel preaching for BOTH Jews AND Gentiles Acts 18:4
Unlike Week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "Almost the ENTIRE CITY turned up the Next Sabbath" to hear the Gospel - Acts 13
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4... there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God -- remains as it was in the time of David in Psalms 95 according to Hebrews 4.

It is not just that Rev 14:7 quotes the Exodus 20:11 portion of the Sabbath commandment

This is called "not mentioning the Sabbath anywhere in the NT or showing Gospel preaching specific to the Sabbath" in some threads.

=======================

By contrast - you have no such list for "do not take God's name in vain" in the NT

It is very much a strawman to try to tell us there is no verse to "keep" Sunday in the New Testament.

Your opinion "noted". Meanwhile I have given very explicit examples of what we do find for God's Sabbath commandment and how it is that we do not have that for week-day-1

What is really true there is no verse or command in the New Testament to "keep" any day.

Nor a New Testament quote of the commandment "do not take God's name in vain"

Absolutely none of the verses you keep quoting over and over are commands in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath.

hmmm you still have not found one single text saying "hey you gentiles - I the Lord your God command you once again to not take God's name in vain... even after the cross".

I think we have noticed that.

what I am looking for is the verse that states the *specific* command that obligates Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Because you have already given up looking for a text that says -- "hey you gentiles - I the Lord your God command you once again to not take God's name in vain... even after the cross".??


Surely it's in there somewhere though, so you will just have to keep looking.

 

[BobRyan]

We believers are not of this earth. John 15:19
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
We are not like mankind, we are born from above. That is why Paul can say 1 Tim 1:8
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,

If you are sinless then the law does not show you to be a sinner and you do not need the Gospel.

But in real life -- all have sinned.

Thus it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain ... even for Christians.

Hello Bob.
Your staring at your own sinful condition and not looking to Christ.

Not true at all David -- and we both know it. That is the logical-fallacy of either-or when we both know the correct answer is "both-and". We have already been over that.

If any sin stopped the reconciliation of the Christ, then we are all lost.

In Christ you cannot sin, lock that in Bob and stop gazing into your own weak flesh.

When you covet and take God's name in vain David -- do you repent or do you simply tell God that you did not do it??

 

[klutedavid]

If you are sinless then the law does not show you to be a sinner and you do not need the Gospel.

But in real life -- all have sinned.

Thus it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain ... even for Christians.



Not true at all David -- and we both know it. That is the logical-fallacy of either-or when we both know the correct answer is "both-and". We have already been over that.



When you covet and take God's name in vain David -- do you repent or do you simply tell God that you did not do it??

Hello Bob.

Your attempting to place people back under the full condemnation of the law.

That condemnation is what happened to Israel when they received the law at Mt Sinai. Israel buckled in the middle as a nation, not even Moses Himself escaped the wrath of God. All Israel agreed to obey the law and they of course failed, every last one of them.

That is the reason that Jesus Christ arrived, to set us free from that terrifying judgement that we all faced. We are no longer under that death sentence that we fully deserved, though not because we could ever be good people in the flesh. No, we are saved because Christ accomplished for us, what we could never achieve ourselves.

Our salvation is a free gift given to us in Christ, we never did or could earn that salvation. Your free to condemn yourself through your own inability to obey the law. But do not condemn those who were never born under the law. The law was made for the unrighteous, but we have the righteousness of Christ.

We are not under the law, nor are we subject to the condemnation of that same law. We are under the law of Christ.

Your interpretation, that Christians are under the law of Moses is utter heresy. You arrive at that interpretation by using a faulty method of interpretation.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

In black and white, your saved by Grace and that is not your own doing. You cannot earn your salvation by obedience to the law, Bob. Your trying to combine the law of Moses and Christ together, a paradox of condemnation and liberty at the same time. Freedom and slavery, law and Grace, deliverance and condemnation, both in the one package.

 

[listed]

You are welcomed to make an actual point.

My point is you agreed that it wasn't Christians meeting, so your point that Christians met in the synagogue is invalid. You don't seem to be able to follow a conversation.

 

[listed]

Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 in the New Earth for all eternity after the cross


Totally false.

Let's see if that is totally false.

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mark 2:

28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Your argument is the sabbath was created for all mankind. Moses says it's special only to Israel. If everyone is to keep it, how can it be special? The context is Jesus is speaking only to Jews in Mark 2:27, 28 in a direct response to them (Pharisees). You have Jesus being required to say the sabbath is created for we Jews so it can't mean the whole world.

 

[listed]

If you are sinless then the law does not show you to be a sinner and you do not need the Gospel.

But in real life -- all have sinned.

Thus it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain ... even for Christians.

Can you show the new man sinning?

 

[listed]

I think that is fair to say.


Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW testament says "EVERY SABBATH" the met for Gospel preaching for BOTH Jews AND Gentiles Acts 18:4
Unlike Week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "Almost the ENTIRE CITY turned up the Next Sabbath" to hear the Gospel - Acts 13
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4... there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God -- remains as it was in the time of David in Psalms 95 according to Hebrews 4.

It is not just that Rev 14:7 quotes the Exodus 20:11 portion of the Sabbath commandment

This is called "not mentioning the Sabbath anywhere in the NT or showing Gospel preaching specific to the Sabbath" in some threads.

That isn't what was asked. No one here has ever said the sabbath isn't mentioned in the NT. All you're doing is side stepping the question while appearing to answer that question. This is self deception being pushed on others. The sabbath isn't preached (commanded) in the NT. If it were you'd have presented the verse(s).

=======================

By contrast - you have no such list for "do not take God's name in vain" in the NT

This has nothing to do with the question. It's only an attempted derailment and filler.

Your opinion "noted". Meanwhile I have given very explicit examples of what we do find for God's Sabbath commandment and how it is that we do not have that for week-day-1

Meanwhile the Christian isn't obliged to the the law issued at Mt Sinai, we have a new covenant based on better promises, not law. You know the verse, so this isn't personal opinion.

Nor a New Testament quote of the commandment "do not take God's name in vain"

hmmm you still have not found one single text saying "hey you gentiles - I the Lord your God command you once again to not take God's name in vain... even after the cross".

I think we have noticed that.

What we do notice is you can't or won't answer the question and bring up side issues having nothing to do with our question to detract us.

Because you have already given up looking for a text that says -- "hey you gentiles - I the Lord your God command you once again to not take God's name in vain... even after the cross".??

Surely it's in there somewhere though, so you will just have to keep looking.

You can't find it either.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Can you show the new man sinning?

Forgive me,I may have said this here or elsewhere before...true Sabbath keeping is RESTING in the finished work of Jesus on the cross , not to be crude but it’s kinda like Jesus saying...”relax guys! I ‘ have already accomplished all the work that needs to be done ,you can rest every day now because of Me !

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.
Your attempting to place people back under the full condemnation of the law.

Aside from the false accusation made there -- on the face of it....

Are you saying that because you oppose the command to "not take God's name in vain" - Ex20:7??
Is it because you are opposed to the command to "honor our father and mother" Ex 20:12??
Is it because you are opposed to the command to "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5??
Is it because you are opposed to the command to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
is it because you only have 27 books in your Bible and not 66??
is it because you reject God's commandments?

What is your reasoning for make such a false claim?

That condemnation is what happened to Israel when they received the law at Mt Sinai.

Read your Bible. Start with "be not deceived" and "if you love Me KEEP my commandments" John 14:15

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, ..9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

 

[BobRyan]

Forgive me,I may have said this here or elsewhere before...true Sabbath keeping is RESTING in the finished work of Jesus on the cross , not to be crude but it’s kinda like Jesus saying...”relax guys! I ‘ have already accomplished all the work that needs to be done ,you can rest every day now because of Me !

No text in the Bible supports the idea of abstaining from secular work 7 days a week.

 

[listed]

If you are sinless then the law does not show you to be a sinner and you do not need the Gospel.

No that doesn't describe our previous condition and need for the law. THE circumstances and conditions have changed leaving the school teacher unemployed.

But in real life -- all have sinned.

Yes and that is why we needed a Redeemer (Jesus Christ, God) and have a high priest Who doesn't and can't sin.

When you covet and take God's name in vain David -- do you repent or do you simply tell God that you did not do it??

Not into materialism. How do we take God's name in vain since you keep bringing up the issue? I don't think you really know.

 

[BobRyan]

I have been informed a number of times that this command for Christians to observe the Sabbath exists in the NT,

I think that is fair to say.


Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW testament says "EVERY SABBATH" the met for Gospel preaching for BOTH Jews AND Gentiles Acts 18:4
Unlike Week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "Almost the ENTIRE CITY turned up the Next Sabbath" to hear the Gospel - Acts 13
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4... there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God -- remains as it was in the time of David in Psalms 95 according to Hebrews 4.

It is not just that Rev 14:7 quotes the Exodus 20:11 portion of the Sabbath commandment

This is called "not mentioning the Sabbath anywhere in the NT or showing Gospel preaching specific to the Sabbath" in some threads.

=======================

By contrast - you have no such list for "do not take God's name in vain" in the NT

It is very much a strawman to try to tell us there is no verse to "keep" Sunday in the New Testament.

Your opinion "noted". Meanwhile I have given very explicit examples of what we do find for God's Sabbath commandment and how it is that we do not have that for week-day-1

What is really true there is no verse or command in the New Testament to "keep" any day.

Nor a New Testament quote of the commandment "do not take God's name in vain"

Absolutely none of the verses you keep quoting over and over are commands in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath.

hmmm you still have not found one single text saying "hey you gentiles - I the Lord your God command you once again to not take God's name in vain... even after the cross".

I think we have noticed that.

what I am looking for is the verse that states the *specific* command that obligates Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Because you have already given up looking for a text that says -- "hey you gentiles - I the Lord your God command you once again to not take God's name in vain... even after the cross".??


Surely it's in there somewhere though, so you will just have to keep looking.

That isn't what was asked. No one here has ever said the sabbath isn't mentioned in the NT. .

If you pay attention to the actual details in that discussion there are two claims being made

1. no text in the NT says "hey gentiles I the LORD your God command you to keep My Sabbath Commandment this is specifically for you gentiles"
2. no text in the NT says "hey you gentiles I the LORD your God command you to not take my name in vain -- this is specifically for you gentiles"

Same could be said of "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

The point remains.

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Can you show the new man sinning?

?? Your claim is that Christians never sin??

 

[listed]

Aside from the false accusation made there -- on the face of it....

What false accusation are you talking about?