Sabbath and Law-Keepers - Gracious convo please!

[listed]

If you pay attention to the actual details in that discussion there are two claims being made

1. no text in the NT says "hey gentiles I the LORD your God command you to keep My Sabbath Commandment this is specifically for you gentiles"
2. no text in the NT says "hey you gentiles I the LORD your God command you to not take my name in vain -- this is specifically for you gentiles"

Thank you for that admission. Now why do you continue to try and foist the sabbath and law on on us?

Same could be said of "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Given the NT, why are you saying we don't love God with all our heart? Isn't it really so you can force the law on us and take away our salvation?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Absolutely none of the verses you keep quoting over and over are commands in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath. If I just wanted verses that just had the word "Sabbath" in them, I could easily look them up in a concordance, but what I am looking for is the verse that states the *specific* command that obligates Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Something like, "Thus sayeth the Lord to the Jews and Gentiles in the Churches, remember when you were slaves in the land of Egypt and the Lord delivered you with a mighty hand and outstretched arm, so you must observe the Sabbath every week as the Lord your God commanded you, so that your animals and male and female slaves may rest as well as you."

Surely it's in there somewhere though, so I'll just have to keep looking.

Bekk..... I know where that verse is ......try looking somewhere in the back."..lol....sorry I just can’t resist using Home r simpson’s Immortal line....seriously,try Hebrew8:9......took them by the hand”.......” a new covenant whereI remember there sins no more” bad section for legalists everywhere.....but as you have seen here these “blind guides” got an answer for everything—. And we both know it..".just joshing with you,Bob

 

[listed]

?? Your claim is that Christians never sin??

No and you can't put us under the law because we at times fail. James tells us how this can happen and John gives us a solution.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Since the law doesn't provide salvation, it can't maintain, prove or take away salvation.

 

[bekkilyn]

Because you have already given up looking for a text that says -- "hey you gentiles - I the Lord your God command you once again to not take God's name in vain... even after the cross".??


Surely it's in there somewhere though, so you will just have to keep looking.

Actually, I'm not particularly concerned whether or not the taking God's name in vain commandment exists in the NT because Christians are not under the law, but under grace. I already know in my heart through the Holy Spirit not to misuse God's name because it's not the way I would want to be treated within a relationship, so I wouldn't want to do it to him any more than I'd want him to do it to me, and so there is no need for a law forcing me not to do it.

I'm really only looking for the commandment concerning the Sabbath because people keep insisting that it exists in the NT and i haven't been able to find it anywhere.

 

[BobRyan]

I have been informed a number of times that this command for Christians to observe the Sabbath exists in the NT,

I think that is fair to say.


Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
Unlike week-day-1 the New Testament says Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW testament says "EVERY SABBATH" the met for Gospel preaching for BOTH Jews AND Gentiles Acts 18:4
Unlike Week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "Almost the ENTIRE CITY turned up the Next Sabbath" to hear the Gospel - Acts 13
Unlike week-day-1 the NEW Testament says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4... there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God -- remains as it was in the time of David in Psalms 95 according to Hebrews 4.

It is not just that Rev 14:7 quotes the Exodus 20:11 portion of the Sabbath commandment

This is called "not mentioning the Sabbath anywhere in the NT or showing Gospel preaching specific to the Sabbath" in some threads.

=======================

By contrast - you have no such list for "do not take God's name in vain" in the NT

It is very much a strawman to try to tell us there is no verse to "keep" Sunday in the New Testament.

Your opinion "noted". Meanwhile I have given very explicit examples of what we do find for God's Sabbath commandment and how it is that we do not have that for week-day-1

What is really true there is no verse or command in the New Testament to "keep" any day.

Nor a New Testament quote of the commandment "do not take God's name in vain"

Absolutely none of the verses you keep quoting over and over are commands in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath.

hmmm you still have not found one single text saying "hey you gentiles - I the Lord your God command you once again to not take God's name in vain... even after the cross".

I think we have noticed that.

what I am looking for is the verse that states the *specific* command that obligates Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Because you have already given up looking for a text that says -- "hey you gentiles - I the Lord your God command you once again to not take God's name in vain... even after the cross".??


Surely it's in there somewhere though, so you will just have to keep looking.

That isn't what was asked. No one here has ever said the sabbath isn't mentioned in the NT. .

If you pay attention to the actual details in that discussion there are two claims being made

1. no text in the NT says "hey gentiles I the LORD your God command you to keep My Sabbath Commandment this is specifically for you gentiles"
2. no text in the NT says "hey you gentiles I the LORD your God command you to not take my name in vain -- this is specifically for you gentiles"

Same could be said of "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

The point remains.

Actually, I'm not particularly concerned whether or not the taking God's name in vain commandment exists in the NT

Precisely!!

because Christians are not under the law, but under grace.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with giving Christians permission to take God's name in vain.

In fact "in the NEW Testament" we have this "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 and IN that context we have "these things I write to you that you SIN Not" 1 John 2:1.

Because even in the NEW testament the SAME law as in Jeremiah 31:31-33 is "Written on the heart and mind" -- STILL -- in the New testament -- Hebrews 8:6-10... verbatim of Jer 31... unchanged.

And in the NEW Testament the lost "do not submit to the LAW of God - indeed they CAN not" Romans 8:4-9 -- by contrast to the saints who "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith! God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

All of which would be "the easy part" of "Bible details" that BOTH sides of the Sabbath vs Sunday discussion freely admit.

It just does not "get" any easier than this friends!

 

[listed]

Aside from the false accusation made there -- on the face of it....

What false accusation?

Are you saying that because you oppose the command to "not take God's name in vain" - Ex20:7??
Is it because you are opposed to the command to "honor our father and mother" Ex 20:12??
Is it because you are opposed to the command to "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5??
Is it because you are opposed to the command to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
is it because you only have 27 books in your Bible and not 66??
is it because you reject God's commandments?

Where is any of this implied? Who is saying take God's name in vain? Who is promoting dishonor? It isn't the poster you responded to.

Read your Bible. Start with "be not deceived" and "if you love Me KEEP my commandments" John 14:15

Yes follow the commandments of Jesus, not Moses.

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, ..9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

No it's not defeat.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Actually, I'm not particularly concerned whether or not the taking God's name in vain commandment exists in the NT because Christians are not under the law, but under grace. I already know in my heart through the Holy Spirit not to misuse God's name because it's not the way I would want to be treated within a relationship, so I wouldn't want to do it to him any more than I'd want him to do it to me, and so there is no need for a law forcing me not to do it.

I'm really only looking for the commandment concerning the Sabbath because people keep insisting that it exists in the NT and i haven't been able to find it anywhere.

Bekkilyn.....here it is.... Col2:16.....do not let any man judge you.....with regard to a Sabbath day

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Can you show the new man sinning?

?? Your claim is that Christians never sin??

No and you can't put us under the law because we at times fail. James tells us how this can happen .

I find your logic "illusive" just then

James 2

8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

hmm.. Lev 19:18 "love your neighbor as yourself"

James 2
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

hmm listed ... are you sure that James 2 is helping your POV in this case???

Jams 2
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[bekkilyn]

No text in the Bible supports the idea of abstaining from secular work 7 days a week.

God wasn't trying to force the Israelites to work six days a week, but instead that they should get all of their work done in the six days since they would be bound by law to rest on the seventh. A big reason for the law is because if there had been no such law for them at that time, then their animals and slaves, unlike the masters, would be forced to work all week, every week, and never get any rest from physical labor at all. So God made sure that *everyone* (including animals) in their culture was able to have at least one day of the week free from physical labor.

However, this law was still only a shadow of Jesus's more substantial rest. Even then, it was pointing towards Jesus and greater promises to come.

 

[BobRyan]

Read your Bible. Start with "be not deceived" and "if you love Me KEEP my commandments" John 14:15

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, ..9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

hmm...

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, ..9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.


Read your Bible. Start with "be not deceived"

.No it's not defeat.

I find your logic "illusive" just then

 

[bekkilyn]

Precisely!!



Which has absolutely nothing to do with giving Christians permission to take God's name in vain.

In fact "in the NEW Testament" we have this "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 and IN that context we have "these things I write to you that you SIN Not" 1 John 2:1.

Because even in the NEW testament the SAME law as in Jeremiah 31:31-33 is "Written on the heart and mind" -- STILL -- in the New testament -- Hebrews 8:6-10... verbatim of Jer 31... unchanged.

And in the NEW Testament the lost "do not submit to the LAW of God - indeed they CAN not" Romans 8:4-9 -- by contrast to the saints who "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith! God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

All of which would be "the easy part" of "Bible details" that BOTH sides of the Sabbath vs Sunday discussion freely admit.

It just does not "get" any easier than this friends!

So you would agree that there is no commandment in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath?

 

[BobRyan]

Forgive me,I may have said this here or elsewhere before...true Sabbath keeping is RESTING in the finished work of Jesus on the cross , not to be crude but it’s kinda like Jesus saying...”relax guys! I ‘ have already accomplished all the work that needs to be done ,you can rest every day now because of Me !

No text in the Bible supports the idea of abstaining from secular work 7 days a week.

As Paul said "if anyone will not work neither let him eat" 2 Thess 3:10

God wasn't trying to force the Israelites to work six days a week,

I find your logic "illusive" at that point.

The Bible Sabbath was and still is -- a day to worship God and refrain from secular work.. see the actual Command of God.

and for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

 

[listed]

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

?? Your claim is that Christians never sin??

Please answer my question. I already responded today to your question above.

 

[listed]

No text in the Bible supports the idea of abstaining from secular work 7 days a week.

Where was that claim made?

 

[BobRyan]

So you would agree that there is no commandment in the NT for Christians to observe the Sabbath?

I would agree there is no commandment in the New Testament that says "hey.. you gentiles I the LORD your God command you to not take God's name in vain ... just like in all ages " ... and that such a detail "does not matter" ... it has no merit for the argument that gentiles can ignore that commandment.

Obviously.

And that all such "gaming the text" is not "sola scriptura" testing but merely gaming.

 

[BobRyan]

Forgive me,I may have said this here or elsewhere before...true Sabbath keeping is RESTING in the finished work of Jesus on the cross , not to be crude but it’s kinda like Jesus saying...”relax guys! I ‘ have already accomplished all the work that needs to be done ,you can rest every day now because of Me !

No text in the Bible supports the idea of abstaining from secular work 7 days a week.

As Paul said "if anyone will not work neither let him eat" 2 Thess 3:10

God wasn't trying to force the Israelites to work six days a week,

I find your logic "illusive" at that point.

The Bible Sabbath was and still is -- a day to worship God and refrain from secular work.. see the actual Command of God.

and for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

Where was that claim made?

so then you "are" or you "are not" actually reading the post that you reference??

 

[bekkilyn]

No text in the Bible supports the idea of abstaining from secular work 7 days a week.

As Paul said "if anyone will not work neither let him eat" 2 Thess 3:10

A common mis-interpretation of this verse. The Thessalonians were convinced that the second coming of Jesus was imminent and so many of them simply stopped working altogether as they believed it was pointless with Jesus about to come back at any moment. Paul was addressing this specific situation, and has nothing to do with punishing people who don't work six out of seven days every week.

 

[listed]

I find your logic "illusive" just then

Yeah we know you you disagree simply because you don't believe what I said. Nothing new.

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Can you show the new man sinning?

?? Your claim is that Christians never sin??

No and you can't put us under the law because we at times fail. James tells us how this can happen .

I find your logic "illusive" just then

James 2

8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

hmm.. Lev 19:18 "love your neighbor as yourself"

James 2
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

hmm listed ... are you sure that James 2 is helping your POV in this case???

Jams 2
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

Please answer my question. I already responded today to your question above.

I just did -- in that post above that you are not reading

 

[bekkilyn]

I would agree there is no commandment in the New Testament that says "hey.. you gentiles I the LORD your God command you to not take God's name in vain ... just like in all ages " ... and that such a detail "does not matter" ... it has no merit for the argument that gentiles can ignore that commandment.

Obviously.

And that all such "gaming the text" is not "sola scriptura" testing but merely gaming.

So if you still believe that a specific verse exists in the NT that commands Christians to observe the Sabbath, then where is it? Either it is there or it is not there.