U of T profs alarmed by Jordan Peterson's plan to target classes he calls 'indoctrination cults'

[iluvatar5150]

All he's doing is highlighting certain courses. If nothing is being taught like he says, he'll look like a fringe character and get dismissed.

Assuming that he's not being misquoted (which I'll concede may not be a valid assumption), I have zero confidence that what you say will hold true. Among one set, I suspect he's already perceived that way, but among the target audience looking for perspectives such as his, the veracity of the claims won't matter. They'll merely want confirmation of their own preconceived notions.

That said, if he is being misquoted, then I take all this back.

 

[rambot]

In the article he says English Lit is corrupt. So classes on Shakespeare, Milton, Dryden, Keats, Dickens, and T.S. Eliot are post-modern, neo-Marxist indoctrination cults?

I would suggest that Peterson is equating a discussion on feminist themes in Paradise Lost with a "shrine to Valerie Solanas" building exercise.

 

[Rion]

In the article he says English Lit is corrupt. So classes on Shakespeare, Milton, Dryden, Keats, Dickens, and T.S. Eliot are post-modern, neo-Marxist indoctrination cults?

I would suggest that Peterson is equating a discussion on feminist themes in Paradise Lost with a "shrine to Valerie Solanas" building exercise.

Or maybe he's talking about stuff like this?

Cambridge students warned Shakespeare plays may distress them

 

[jayem]

Or maybe he's talking about stuff like this?

Cambridge students warned Shakespeare plays may distress them

But that pertains to one specific English university. Does he know for a fact that the English Dept. at U of T is distorting its teaching of Shakespeare to avoid offending some students' sensibilities? Example: How many ways can you interpret Lady Macbeth? She is the embodiment of a ruthless, domineering, cruel, and insensitive woman. She's every anti-feminist's nightmare. It's hard for me to believe that any objective study of Shakespeare would try to gloss over her character.

 

[Go Braves]

Sounds like he's wanting to give a variation of the trigger warnings that folks who follow him tend to mock, lol.

 

[Ana the Ist]

...ignoring the reason those classes exist is because the more traditional cultural studies classes tend to default to a male european perspective.

Example?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Example?

Off the top of my head, world history classes have, for a long time, focused on the history of Europe and North America (and Egypt/Mesopotamia, too, but even the Egyptian stuff crossed over into European). Histories of the empires in, say, Central & South America, East Asia, and Subsaharan Africa typically get relegated to specialized courses.


Here's an interesting article I read recently about how the pedagogy in drama schools tend to favor male actors:

It Starts in the Classroom: Approaching Gender Parity through Actor Training

I don't know if it's the best example to answer your question, but it's still fresh in my mind, so I can pull it out quickly. That said, I do think it's relevant because it highlights a long-running, systemic, pro-male bias that stems from a couple different factor (some sexist, some practical) and that negatively impacts women in ways that wouldn't necessarily be obvious to outsiders.

 

[redleghunter]

Sounds like he just wants to highlight classes so that people who want to avoid their chicanery can. If that's the case, I'm fine with it.

Even in the 80s some course descriptions were misleading.

For example, I took an elective named "Christ and Politics" at a Jesuit university in 1987. The course description discussed how Jesus Christ and His Gospel influenced Western governments since the 3rd century.

Turns out the course was run by a Marxist Jesuit who covered only South and Central American liberation theology. Turns out the padre was a chaplain for the Sandinista revolutionary army in the 70s.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Even in the 80s some course descriptions were misleading.

For example, I took an elective named "Christ and Politics" at a Jesuit university in 1987. The course description discussed how Jesus Christ and His Gospel influenced Western governments since the 3rd century.

Turns out the course was run by a Marxist Jesuit who covered only South and Central American liberation theology. Turns out the padre was a chaplain for the Sandinista revolutionary army in the 70s.

I don't know... that sounds really interesting to me. You can learn about Constantine and the Inquisition anywhere. Where else are you going to find a Sandinista chaplain?

 

[redleghunter]

Example: How many ways can you interpret Lady Macbeth? She is the embodiment of a ruthless, domineering, cruel, and insensitive woman.

A class on HRC...post modern Lady Macbeth?

 

[redleghunter]

I don't know... that sounds really interesting to me. You can learn about Constantine and the Inquisition anywhere. Where else are you going to find a Sandinista chaplain?

It did make for interesting debates in class. Especially for ROTC students.

He challenged the class to find any negative news from the American press (mind you this is 1987) on the Sandinista government or army. It took me a few minutes in the library to call up three Wall Street Journal pieces.

He railed that I should have expected a capitalist rag like the WS journal would report such. Then I read back his challenge and pointed out I succeeded at meeting his challenge. He gave me a "C" for the assignment.

But he was fair. My "Jesus was not a Marxist" paper got an "A", but I know it hurt him to grade it. To this day I still think he let one of his assistants grade my paper.

The Jesuits were interesting in the 80s. Back then they were either left of Lenin or right of Atilla the Hun.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Off the top of my head, world history classes have, for a long time, focused on the history of Europe and North America (and Egypt/Mesopotamia, too, but even the Egyptian stuff crossed over into European). Histories of the empires in, say, Central & South America, East Asia, and Subsaharan Africa typically get relegated to specialized courses.


Here's an interesting article I read recently about how the pedagogy in drama schools tend to favor male actors:

It Starts in the Classroom: Approaching Gender Parity through Actor Training

I don't know if it's the best example to answer your question, but it's still fresh in my mind, so I can pull it out quickly. That said, I do think it's relevant because it highlights a long-running, systemic, pro-male bias that stems from a couple different factor (some sexist, some practical) and that negatively impacts women in ways that wouldn't necessarily be obvious to outsiders.

Not sure what world history classes you took...mine definitely didn't focus on Europe. Obviously, I have no way of knowing what the standard is for everyone else.

I'll admit there's little time spent on Africa and the Americas pre-colonialism, but there's obvious reasons for that.

 

[redleghunter]

Not sure what world history classes you took...mine definitely didn't focus on Europe. Obviously, I have no way of knowing what the standard is for everyone else.

I'll admit there's little time spent on Africa and the Americas pre-colonialism, but there's obvious reasons for that.

My Catholic HS prep school focused on the empires and civilizations which advanced human society. You know the ones which actually left historical artifacts and documents in which we have something to study.

We did spend a lot of time on Europe during AP European history and North America for AP US history. I know dead give away.

 

[keith99]

I'm reversing my position.

I know someone who is taking classes at U of T and was told that this guy doxxed Doxing - Wikipedia two students who then received death and anti semitic threats. While my point that what he likely said can be parsed out two very different ways still stands his other actions make that point moot. His actions show his intent.

I trust my source at U of T. I do not expect that to be enough for everyone here (and honestly it should not be enough for those who do not know me) but do expect it will be enough for some who have come to know me.

 

[Rion]

But that pertains to one specific English university. Does he know for a fact that the English Dept. at U of T is distorting its teaching of Shakespeare to avoid offending some students' sensibilities? Example: How many ways can you interpret Lady Macbeth? She is the embodiment of a ruthless, domineering, cruel, and insensitive woman. She's every anti-feminist's nightmare. It's hard for me to believe that any objective study of Shakespeare would try to gloss over her character.

I will dig it up tomorrow, but one English Literature department was going on about decolonizing the department by removing white male authors. I know that it is hard to believe, but the insanity level in a lot of these courses are incredible. I happen to be more aware of this because I kept getting these nutters coming into the fandoms of various things that I enjoy, and screwing stuff up. So, I started looking into which asylum had an escape epidemic and come to find out that it is coming from the University.

 

[KCfromNC]

"Sociology, that's corrupt. Anthropology, that's corrupt. English literature, that's corrupt. Maybe the worse offenders are the faculties of education."

Whatta maroon.

Can we just throw in evolution, a spherical earth and some 9/11 lunacy and make it a complete set?

 

[TLK Valentine]

...ignoring the reason those classes are being listed is that they've morphed from positive, empowering classes on the subject to fountains of Critical X Theory bull squeeze.

Sounds like the classes are being targeted because they've drifted away from the accepted ideology.

 

[Rion]

I'm reversing my position.

I know someone who is taking classes at U of T and was told that this guy doxxed Doxing - Wikipedia two students who then received death and anti semitic threats. While my point that what he likely said can be parsed out two very different ways still stands his other actions make that point moot. His actions show his intent.

I trust my source at U of T. I do not expect that to be enough for everyone here (and honestly it should not be enough for those who do not know me) but do expect it will be enough for some who have come to know me.

I don't think posting the FB accounts of two of the people who got one of his speeches shut down due to threats of violence, and who were bragging about their part therein on said facebook accounts, is doxing.

Actually, one of them had their name out there already via an article (link removed due to cursing in the comments), and they were hosting a facebook event re: this and used their accounts in said event. That's... not even close to doxing.

 

[KCfromNC]

I don't think posting the FB accounts of two of the people who got one of his speeches shut down due to threats of violence, and who were bragging about their part therein on said facebook accounts, is doxing.

But you did think that CNN not identifying someone who was posting racist nonsense on reddit was worth starting a thread over. Seems like some very fine hairs being split here - and the obvious deciding factor seems to be who is doing it rather than the facts of the case.

 

[Rion]

But you did think that CNN not identifying someone who was posting racist nonsense on reddit was worth starting a thread over. Seems like some very fine hairs being split here - and the obvious deciding factor seems to be who is doing it rather than the facts of the case.

Except they hunted down someone's unlinked FB account from a reddit post and threatened to release it if he did anything else they didn't like. Meanwhile, these people were talking openly to newspapers, giving their full names, and hosting the event to shut down his speech on facebook. When he shared their accounts, it wasn't "Go get these guys" it was Look at these guys' pages, "they're literal communists" which is what he posted on the tweet.

While I don't think that it was a good idea for him to do it, there's a difference between me putting my full name and identity out on this message board, giving news interviews with my full name and discussing my posts on this message board and then someone identifying me on twitter that way, and someone digging up information that I've posted here to discover who I am by ferreting out information I've posted here and there and threatening to make that info public if I don't agree to their conditions.