My DNA Challenge

Divide

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XD his "Morse code" beads crack me up; we only have his word that he didn't make that necklace that way intentionally.

Also, a fundamental issue with his type of argument:
1. it's about abiogenesis, not evolution. Evolution starts with the first living cell, not with DNA by itself.
2. This video seems rather old based on the quality, so poor Chuck of the past hasn't been exposed to the abiogenesis experiments circa de 2013 in which protocells developed. Hence why he acts as if the prevailing idea is that DNA came first (when the RNA world theory actually is the current front runner for abiogenesis).
3. Evolution doesn't claim that DNA was random to begin with... or make any claims as to its origin. In fact, due to the selective pressures of evolution, the sequence of genetic material distinctly is not random; that which improves survival and reproduction persists better than that which does not in and of itself makes certain sequences more likely to be seen than others, because those are the sequences that would withstand the test of time and be passed on the most successfully. Thus, Chuck's equations don't apply, since they assume all sequences are equally likely, and this is not true.
4. Another problem with his argument is that for him to have a leg to stand on, he'd have to know how many times DNA/RNA was generated before life existed on this planet. It's impossible to know that, and given that seemingly impossible events can occur if a large enough number of tries are done, any number Chuck comes up with is essentially meaningless (even if it was an accurate representation of the likelihood of functional DNA forming). 1/10^10 stops being so unlikely if there are 10^9 tries, you see.

You must have misunderstood him. He did make the beads intentionally. He made them to make a point about the absurdity of it happening by random chance.

In another video, later than this one (and 2 hours in length!) he says that DNA is like the chicken and the egg, which came first? Because one needs the other to function.

I doubt you want to sit through a 2 hour video though?
 
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Divide

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I love the way he describes the Bible as a message from outside the universe, written in spread-spectrum design and immune to hostile jamming.

Me too, Brother. And he's right too. The scriptures are self proving because of the fulfillment of the prophecy within. History written before it happens. Especially in Daniel.

But most people wont study it in depth enough to realize these things. The remain content to armchair quarter back and scoff at it, rather than actually do their homework!

(Proverbs 18:13)
13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.../

I don't take Chucks word for stuff, I go ahead and do the homework myself.
 
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AV1611VET

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Chucky Mistletoe doesn’t doesnt know diddly poo about DNA.
Neither did Chucky Darsin, but he gets his face on a £10 note (albeit his sinister side is showing), a city named after him (albeit from a country that started out as a penal colony), and even a burial in Westminster Abbey (but someone has to be the weakest link, eh?).
 
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TLK Valentine

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I love the way he describes the Bible as a message from outside the universe, written in spread-spectrum design and immune to hostile jamming.

Given the 10,000 denominations each claiming the others are wrong, I'd say it's friendly jamming they should be concerned with.
 
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AV1611VET

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Given the 10,000 denominations each claiming the others are wrong, I'd say it's friendly jamming they should be concerned with.
But every one in those 10,000 denominations -- past and present -- all believe IN THE BEGINNING, GOD.

Don't they, agnostic?
 
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TLK Valentine

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But every one in those 10,000 denominations -- past and present -- all believe IN THE BEGINNING, GOD.

Don't they, agnostic?

A million words in the Bible, and they agree on the first four... and persecute and kill each other over the rest.

You must be proud, Independent Baptist, to pass a bar set so low.
 
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AV1611VET

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... and persecute and kill each other over the rest.
Assuming that's true just for the sake of argument, aren't you proud of they sticking to their guns?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Assuming that's true just for the sake of argument, aren't you proud of they sticking to their guns?

More relieved than proud.. not so much sticking to them, but as long as they're pointing them at each other, they're too busy to point them at the likes of me.
 
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AV1611VET

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More relieved than proud.. not so much sticking to them, but as long as they're pointing them at each other, they're too busy to point them at the likes of me.
Afraid you'll be caught picking up sticks on the Sabbath or speaking in tongues in Salem?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Afraid you'll be caught picking up sticks on the Sabbath or speaking in tongues in Salem?

Being a non-believer, they hardly need to wait for me to do anything before they hang me... Of course, I can always assume they'll show some mercy and banish me instead.

After all, When God gives real estate to His people, it's their duty to wipe out the current occupants -- just ask the Indians.
 
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PsychoSarah

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You must have misunderstood him. He did make the beads intentionally. He made them to make a point about the absurdity of it happening by random chance.

In another video, later than this one (and 2 hours in length!) he says that DNA is like the chicken and the egg, which came first? Because one needs the other to function.

I doubt you want to sit through a 2 hour video though?
It would, again, be an invalid contention, because the prevailing abiogenesis hypothesis is the RNA world one, and RNA can be functional in small portions and make itself, DNA, and protein. This is even what happens in your own cells; RNA copies of DNA sequences are what are used as a template to make protein, not DNA directly. RNA can even act as enzymes meaning that, by itself, RNA can do its own functions, that of DNA, and some of the protein functions necessary to be maintained and replicate.

Since RNA can naturally form under certain conditions, and because sequences fewer than 10 bases long can be functional, I do not think Chuck's equations apply to the prevailing hypothesis of abiogenesis.
 
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Divide

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It would, again, be an invalid contention, because the prevailing abiogenesis hypothesis is the RNA world one, and RNA can be functional in small portions and make itself, DNA, and protein. This is even what happens in your own cells; RNA copies of DNA sequences are what are used as a template to make protein, not DNA directly. RNA can even act as enzymes meaning that, by itself, RNA can do its own functions, that of DNA, and some of the protein functions necessary to be maintained and replicate.

Since RNA can naturally form under certain conditions, and because sequences fewer than 10 bases long can be functional, I do not think Chuck's equations apply to the prevailing hypothesis of abiogenesis.

I'm not sure about what you're talking about here. I haven't researched it for myself. Got a link to where you learned these things?
 
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Willby

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To answer the OPs question about which plant we are 'closest to'?.
From the evolutionary model point of view we are equally related to all extant plants as we and them share the same common ancestor.
This would predict that genetic analysis should show the same (*) genetic distance to all plants.
This prediction is consistant with the observed reality.

As others have said Hovind choose the Tobacco plant to make his point as it has the same number of chromosomes as the non-human apes. Number of chromosomes is not in of itself a good indicator of close relatedness. The non-human apes with 48 chromosomes arn't considered closly related just because of this number but because those chromosome are homologous.

* Not exactly the same, the nature of DNA, how it mutates, duplicated sections etc means there will be 'random' noise.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I'm not sure about what you're talking about here. I haven't researched it for myself. Got a link to where you learned these things?
Well, not just 1 link with all of it.

The role of RNA in cells: RNA Functions | Learn Science at Scitable
RNA world hypothesis: The RNA World and the Origins of Life - Molecular Biology of the Cell - NCBI Bookshelf

These two should cover most of it, but if there is any particular detail they leave out that you want to know more about, I'll provide more sources.
 
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Divide

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Well, not just 1 link with all of it.

The role of RNA in cells: RNA Functions | Learn Science at Scitable
RNA world hypothesis: The RNA World and the Origins of Life - Molecular Biology of the Cell - NCBI Bookshelf

These two should cover most of it, but if there is any particular detail they leave out that you want to know more about, I'll provide more sources.

Now that's how to post links, lol. All except for when I linked to it, my 'puter locked up. I'll try it again later. Twice in a row makes me a little leery of that site.

Or you could copy/paste? (I couldn't even scroll the first page, immediate lockup.)
 
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PsychoSarah

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Now that's how to post links, lol. All except for when I linked to it, my 'puter locked up. I'll try it again later. Twice in a row makes me a little leery of that site.

Or you could copy/paste? (I couldn't even scroll the first page, immediate lockup.)
Hmm, try changing browsers, and make sure you don't have a bunch of tabs open. If you can't get the links to work, I'll take screen shots of them and post them.
 
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Divide

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Hmm, try changing browsers, and make sure you don't have a bunch of tabs open. If you can't get the links to work, I'll take screen shots of them and post them.

I tried closing all my tabs and it still locked up, and fast.

I had to reboot it too. Then after I quit trying, I had no more problems...
I use Chrome, it's always been ok for me.
I tried firefox once, it gave me problems.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I tried closing all my tabs and it still locked up, and fast.

I had to reboot it too. Then after I quit trying, I had no more problems...
I use Chrome, it's always been ok for me.
I tried firefox once, it gave me problems.
You might need to update Chrome, or try slumming it with Internet Explorer. I've found that Chrome often starts to have issues when using Christian Forums itself; the browser slows down big time sometimes when using the site, and I have had it flat out reject to go to the site entirely.

I'll try taking some screenshots tomorrow, regardless.
 
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Speedwell

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I tried closing all my tabs and it still locked up, and fast.

I had to reboot it too. Then after I quit trying, I had no more problems...
I use Chrome, it's always been ok for me.
I tried firefox once, it gave me problems.
Sounds like it's time for a virus scan. What antivirus do you have? CF is a relatively "dirty" site; I have avast and it seems to deal with it OK.
 
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