Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

[SBC]

#577 just posted

You delineate between types of sin. I don't.

Walking in the Spirit, is the effect of having a new spirit and following along in the Holy Spirit in all matters, and works.

That is a process.

We have the power within us to do so, yet we are dealing with our own mind, and teaching ourselves to remember, be conscious of, pay attention, to do ALL things and works according to what is the will of Gods Spirit.

You think NOT walking in the Spirit is wilful sin?
I don't.

Walking in the Spirit would mean during every waking moment.
I don't particularly think many men achieve that.
Not saying many don't do well, because I think they do.
And for all they do, that glorifies God, they shall be rewarded.
And for all that do not do so well, they shall miss out on some rewards.

Do I think any that don't do so well are sinning? No.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[1stcenturylady]

Actually.... the Greek of 1 John 1:9 says God cleanses not only sins we confess. But cleanses us also from all "unrighteousness/wrongdoing."

Why? For once we sin (unintentionally) or (intentionally) we lose the filling of the Spirit.
We at that moment we sin lose the control over our walk by the Spirit who becomes grieved.

When we sin unintentionally? That means we are no longer under the control of the Spirit. Meaning? We will be walking according to our 'flesh.' And, what would walking according to our flesh produce? It will eventually produce a sin that we will recognize. A sin we know is sin.

So? If we confess the sins we recognize? What else does God do? He forgives, yes.. But, He also purifies us of all the 'wrongdoing' we had done while not under the control of the Holy Spirit! Its a double cleansing of both known, and the unknown.

1 John 1:9

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive
us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."​

The word 'sin' does not appear in the Greek at the end of that verse. At that point, God cleanses us of all the wrongdoing we committed during the time the Spirit was not controlling us.

Irony has it... the sin we confess and are forgiven for? It may have not been the sin that got us there to that sin we confessed. "He cleanses us from all unrighteousness"... not just the sins we recognize and confess..

That is how we need to remain always growing in truth. Always quick to name a recognized sin to God...QUICK! and keep moving in the filling of the Spirit knowing you are forgiven.

For as we grow in grace we will learn more knowledge about sins that we had no idea were sins.. as we continue to grow in grace and knowledge of God's Word.

2 Peter 3:18

But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.


.​

You are kinda saying a contradiction.

Here you say, "For as we grow in grace we will learn more knowledge about sins that we had no idea were sins.. as we continue to grow in grace and knowledge of God's Word." I agree.

But at the beginning you said, "For once we sin (unintentionally) or (intentionally) we lose the filling of the Spirit. Unintentionally, no; intentionally, yes.
We at that moment we sin lose the control over our walk by the Spirit who becomes grieved.

When we sin unintentionally? That means we are no longer under the control of the Spirit. Meaning? We will be walking according to our 'flesh.' And, what would walking according to our flesh produce? It will eventually produce a sin that we will recognize. A sin we know is sin.

I have to say that if we are walking in the Spirit we may sin unintentionally, sins that we did not know were sins, as you said at the end. They do not take us out of the Spirit, and Christ's blood does cleanse us of them. And eventually, we will learn that they were sin, just not all on the first day of walking in the Spirit.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You delineate between types of sin. I don't.

Walking in the Spirit, is the effect of having a new spirit and following along in the Holy Spirit in all matters, and works.

That is a process.

We have the power within us to do so, yet we are dealing with our own mind, and teaching ourselves to remember, be conscious of, pay attention, to do ALL things and works according to what is the will of Gods Spirit.

You think NOT walking in the Spirit is wilful sin?
I don't.

Walking in the Spirit would mean during every waking moment.
I don't particularly think many men achieve that.
Not saying many don't do well, because I think they do.
And for all they do, that glorifies God, they shall be rewarded.
And for all that do not do so well, they shall miss out on some rewards.

Do I think any that don't do so well are sinning? No.

God Bless,
SBC

It is not ME, that delineates, it is God's word.

The wages of sin is death, not lack of rewards.

 

[Almost there]

The wages of sin is death, not lack of rewards.

And not eternal conscious torment in a lake of fire and brimstone?

 

[JacksBratt]

Correct.



1) Sin against God is disbelief in God.
2) Sin against God is only forgiven by God.
3) Nothing whatsoever revealed the man believed or didn't believe in God.
4) Nothing whatsoever revealed IF the vendor's shop was mans shop or another with permission to take and eat at his pleasure.

A believing and forgiven man, IS indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
I do not believe the Holy Spirit dwells in Sin.

If you believe you are indwelt with the Holy Spirit AND continue to commit sin ~
is it reasonable to believe, YOU believe the Holy Spirit Can and Does dwell in sin?

God Bless,
SBC

I stated:

JacksBratt said: ↑

Maybe you can explain, in your own words, the difference in the thinking here:

Say you are sitting on a park bench across from an outdoor market. A man walks along the market row and you observe him take an apple and eat it as he is walking. He never pays for the apple.

SO.... if he is a believer... no sin was committed because he cannot sin... Period (your words)
..........if he is a non believer.... sin was committed.


You replied:

Correct.

Now, you left off my final comment that said:
No scripture in the world is going to make this scenario biblical.

Can you explain to me, in your own words, how a man can take an apple, not pay for it and, yet, eat it.... and it is not a sinful act?

Not with all these scriptures. I have read enough of them and none of them can explain this scenario.

If an act is sinful, how does being a believer negate it of being sinful, while a person who is not a believer is sinning?

We do not live with that arrangement.

If that were so.... I could just go out in the world and do as I pleased with no need of ever repenting of my acts.

Do you never, in your prayers, ask for forgiveness for your sins... anymore?

If this were the case, why would Christ teach us to pray "forgive us our trespasses"?

This mindset you have is IMO not biblical.

 

[JIMINZ]

What anger? Eats me up? Are you well? I am not angry at all.


Looks like you need to confess a sin of presumption.

Psalm 19:13

"Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;
Let them not have dominion over me.
Then I shall be blameless,
And I shall be innocent of great transgression."​

.
The anger you keep expressing, because someone just might disagree with what your brand of theology might be.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I stated:

JacksBratt said: ↑

Maybe you can explain, in your own words, the difference in the thinking here:

Say you are sitting on a park bench across from an outdoor market. A man walks along the market row and you observe him take an apple and eat it as he is walking. He never pays for the apple.

SO.... if he is a believer... no sin was committed because he cannot sin... Period (your words)
..........if he is a non believer.... sin was committed.


You replied:

Correct.

Now, you left off my final comment that said:
No scripture in the world is going to make this scenario biblical.

Can you explain to me, in your own words, how a man can take an apple, not pay for it and, yet, eat it.... and it is not a sinful act?

Not with all these scriptures. I have read enough of them and none of them can explain this scenario.

If an act is sinful, how does being a believer negate it of being sinful, while a person who is not a believer is sinning?

We do not live with that arrangement.

If that were so.... I could just go out in the world and do as I pleased with no need of ever repenting of my acts.

Do you never, in your prayers, ask for forgiveness for your sins... anymore?

If this were the case, why would Christ teach us to pray "forgive us our trespasses"?

This mindset you have is IMO not biblical.

I didn't follow your conversation, but if he said "Correct," I agree with you. Grace is NEVER a license to sin.

To be honest, SBC has gone around in circles. I still don't know what he means by what he says, because he contradicts himself in the next post.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I've lost where you were going with that. Sorry. Meanwhile, I have to go...

Back...

Yes, I just checked 479. I simply disagree with your assertion in that post. I thought that is what I was doing in my comments on that post.

Many do disagree. They also believe 1 John 1:8 is about a born again Christian. Neither is.

 

[SBC]

Can you explain to me, in your own words, how a man can take an apple, not pay for it and, yet, eat it.... and it is not a sinful act?

You present a scenario, that is not in scripture, then tell me it is not Scriptural, then wonder why I ignored it.

Not with all these scriptures. I have read enough of them and none of them can explain this scenario.

What do you want to know? Do I think stealing is wrong? Yes.
Do I believe what one observes and thinks is stealing, is truly always stealing? No.
Do I believe a wrong behavior negates being forgiven, saved, born again? No.
Do I believe a wrong behavior negates a person from one who sins no more? No.

If an act is sinful, how does being a believer negate it of being sinful, while a person who is not a believer is sinning?

One is forgiven and born of God.
The other is not forgiven or born of God.

We do not live with that arrangement.

Okay.

If that were so.... I could just go out in the world and do as I pleased with no need of ever repenting of my acts.

Certainly you could, IF, you had not given your life to God.
However IF, you have given your life to God, WHAT is the "arrangement" you live with?
Sinning, while the Spirit of the Lord dwells in your sin?

Do you never, in your prayers, ask for forgiveness for your sins... anymore?

Pray for forgiveness of my sins? Already did, they were forgiven. Appeal to God, and ask Him over and over and over, to do what He has already done? No.

If this were the case, why would Christ teach us to pray "forgive us our trespasses"?

Why did Jesus teach ANYTHING He taught? So people would know His WAY of HOW TO RECONCILE unto God.

Why do you feel the need to KEEP repeating what you have already fulfilled?
Is that what Christ did? Fulfilled Scripture, then say, oh, oh, oh, I better, come back to earth, die again; I'd better keep saving the same people over and over, it failed; I'd better try indwelling in this man again, it failed.

When Scripture says; IF a man does this.....and the man does, why do you think the results are a fail? The results are ALWAYS by the power of the Lord. They do not fail!
It's accomplished!

This mindset you have is IMO not biblical.

Well ~ not exactly a newsflash that the carnal mind is AGAINST God!

However, my mind is always in training, to be subjected to my hearts thoughts, which is subject to the Lord Spirit.
It is not you I attempt to please, but rather the Lord.

Personally, I think you spend a great deal of time using your mind to figure out Gods understanding, which is a fail.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JacksBratt]

You present a scenario, that is not in scripture, then tell me it is not Scriptural, then wonder why I ignored it.

You misunderstand the concept here....
The scenario is not in scripture, yes. However the concept it describes is easy to examine using scriptural wisdom and teaching.

Using scripture we can discern as to whether an action is biblical (righteous actions) or goes against the biblical teachings ( sinful or false teaching ).

The scenario that I described is a situation that you could use scripture to validate or dismiss as false.

I wanted your words to describe how you validate the concept that you presented with the phrase:"EVERYTHING A MAN IN BELIEF DOES IS NOT SIN."

Pray for forgiveness of my sins? Already did, they were forgiven. Appeal to God, and ask Him over and over and over, to do what He has already done? No.

Well, this is interesting. You see it as one thing... being forgiven and forgiven forever.


I see it as two things... Repentance, asking for forgiveness of my sins and accepting Christ and receiving forgiveness and salvation...A salvation that I will never lose.

The second thing is to continually be in prayer, connection, fellowship with God, Christ, if you will, where I regularly ask, and receive forgiveness for the shortcomings of my actions throughout my life that are sins. This is ongoing as I grow in Christ, never to reach perfection, until I pass into eternity and receive my un corruptible body and soul.

Until I present these earthly sins to Christ, our connection is broken. I am still saved but we have a disconnection in our relationship.

Why did Jesus teach ANYTHING He taught? So people would know His WAY of HOW TO RECONCILE unto God.

Why do you feel the need to KEEP repeating what you have already fulfilled?
Is that what Christ did? Fulfilled Scripture, then say, oh, oh, oh, I better, come back to earth, die again; I'd better keep saving the same people over and over, it failed; I'd better try indwelling in this man again, it failed.

When Scripture says; IF a man does this.....and the man does, why do you think the results are a fail? The results are ALWAYS by the power of the Lord. They do not fail!
It's accomplished!



Well ~ not exactly a newsflash that the carnal mind is AGAINST God!

However, my mind is always in training, to be subjected to my hearts thoughts, which is subject to the Lord Spirit.
It is not you I attempt to please, but rather the Lord.

Personally, I think you spend a great deal of time using your mind to figure out Gods understanding, which is a fail.

God Bless,
SBC

Anyway, I believe that I have understood what you are trying to say. I just don't agree with that view.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You misunderstand the concept here....
The scenario is not in scripture, yes. However the concept it describes is easy to examine using scriptural wisdom and teaching.

Using scripture we can discern as to whether an action is biblical (righteous actions) or goes against the biblical teachings ( sinful or false teaching ).

The scenario that I described is a situation that you could use scripture to validate or dismiss as false.

I wanted your words to describe how you validate the concept that you presented with the phrase:"EVERYTHING A MAN IN BELIEF DOES IS NOT SIN."





Well, this is interesting. You see it as one thing... being forgiven and forgiven forever.


I see it as two things... Repentance, asking for forgiveness of my sins and accepting Christ and receiving forgiveness and salvation...A salvation that I will never lose.

The second thing is to continually be in prayer, connection, fellowship with God, Christ, if you will, where I regularly ask, and receive forgiveness for the shortcomings of my actions throughout my life that are sins. This is ongoing as I grow in Christ, never to reach perfection, until I pass into eternity and receive my un corruptible body and soul.

Until I present these earthly sins to Christ, our connection is broken. I am still saved but we have a disconnection in our relationship.






Anyway, I believe that I have understood what you are trying to say. I just don't agree with that view.

What some do not understand is that Jesus forgives us of our past/old sins - ALL of them. Where does the doctrine come from that declares He also forgives our present and future sins we are not suppose to be committing? That is a false doctrine that is very common in today's church. "Shall we commit sin so grace may abound? God forbid!! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" Romans 6:1-2

"For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins." 2 Peter 1:9

 

[SBC]

I wanted your words to describe how you validate the concept that you presented with the phrase:"EVERYTHING A MAN IN BELIEF DOES IS NOT SIN."

To be more precise - A man born of God, does not sin. A man born of God, believes and does things, and it is not sin.

My words to validate are not sufficient, but for me, scripture, is sufficient.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Is that Scripture, for you, sufficient, that a man born of God, does not sin?

Well, this is interesting. You see it as one thing... being forgiven and forgiven forever.

"and forever", was for "emphasis".

I see it as two things... Repentance, asking for forgiveness of my sins and accepting Christ and receiving forgiveness and salvation...A salvation that I will never lose.

I see that as, different things, already discussed, known, and established.
Believing in ones heart.
Calling on the Lord.
Repentance.
Being forgiven.
Receiving a series of things from the Lord.
...new heart, restored soul, quickened spirit, etc.
Salvation received and established.
Born of God.
Can sin no more.

The second thing is to continually be in prayer, connection, fellowship with God, Christ, if you will, where I regularly ask, and receive forgiveness for the shortcomings of my actions throughout my life that are sins. This is ongoing as I grow in Christ, never to reach perfection, until I pass into eternity and receive my un corruptible body and soul.

I agree, continual prayer, and fellowship with Christ.
However, I pray differently than you.
While you focus on the negative, asking for repeated forgiveness.
I focus on the positive. Thanking the Lord for what He has given me.
Exalting the Lord, Blessing the Lord, Praising, Worshiping the Lord.
Asking for His knowledge, His wisdom, His understanding.

Until I present these earthly sins to Christ, our connection is broken. I am still saved but we have a disconnection in our relationship.

A great difference between you and I.
I am saved, BECAUSE, we are connected forever.

Anyway, I believe that I have understood what you are trying to say. I just don't agree with that view.

I agree with the Lord. I agree with Scripture. I am forgiven. I am Whole, wholly sanctified, body, soul & spirit. I am in full faithfulness in the Lord. I am born of God. My standing is with the Lord forever. The Lord is within me forever. I can sin no more.

It seems we do have a difference.
I Trust the God of peace; HAS sanctified me WHOLLY. My WHOLE spirit, my WHOLE soul, my WHOLE body, is preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You seem to lack Trust in God, and KEEP asking repetitively, for what He has already given you.

1 Thes 5
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Obviously, I do not agree with your view.
I find you have presented no scripture to the contrary, of my view which is based on Scripture.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JacksBratt]

I agree, continual prayer, and fellowship with Christ.
However, I pray differently than you.
While you focus on the negative, asking for repeated forgiveness.
I focus on the positive. Thanking the Lord for what He has given me.
Exalting the Lord, Blessing the Lord, Praising, Worshiping the Lord.
Asking for His knowledge, His wisdom, His understanding.

I think you are assuming that you know my prayer life.

I never said that forgiveness is the focus of my communication with God.

Prayer covers all the conversations and topics that you would have with any other close friend....with one difference.....

It also includes praise and thanks for all He has afforded me AND...admitting and asking for forgiveness for recent sins. After all, the conversation of prayer is with my creator and savior.

 

[SBC]

I think you are assuming that you know my prayer life.

I never said anything in assuming. I responded to what you revealed.

I never said that forgiveness is the focus of my communication with God.

What you did say, is you regularly ask for forgiveness of your sins.
I did not say, that was the extent of your spiritual communication.
I simply responded to your own admission of regularly asking for forgiveness of your sins.

Prayer covers all the conversations and topics that you would have with any other close friend....with one difference.....

I didn't say otherwise.

It also includes praise and thanks for all He has afforded me AND...admitting and asking for forgiveness for recent sins. After all, the conversation of prayer is with my creator and savior.

I spoke for myself, as you spoke for yourself. Then, in the previous conversation, as now, in this conversation; we pray differently. You regularly ask for forgiveness of your sins. I don't ask for what He has already given me.

And you did not address my presenting validating scripture, that you questioned.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Is that Scripture, for you, sufficient, that a man born of God, does not sin?

And I made a further comment about a difference between us, which you did not address. I revealed my standing.
Is your standing in line with 1 Thes 5? and 1 John 3:9?


It seems we do have a difference.
I Trust the God of peace; HAS sanctified me WHOLLY. My WHOLE spirit, my WHOLE soul, my WHOLE body, is preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You seem to lack Trust in God, and KEEP asking repetitively, for what He has already given you.

1 Thes 5
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[ToBeLoved]

What some do not understand is that Jesus forgives us of our past/old sins - ALL of them. Where does the doctrine come from that declares He also forgives our present and future sins we are not suppose to be committing? That is a false doctrine that is very common in today's church. "Shall we commit sin so grace may abound? God forbid!! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" Romans 6:1-2

"For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins." 2 Peter 1:9

These two scriptures do not prove that future sins are not forgiven in any way. Nor does it say that it effects salvation

 

[JacksBratt]

I never said anything in assuming. I responded to what you revealed.

You stated that

" I pray differently than you.
While you focus on the negative, asking for repeated forgiveness."

Forgive me if I took this wrong, however I don't "focus" on the "negative and asking for "repeated forgiveness"

It is part of my pray life and, as I have stated already, not the "focus" of it.

 

[SBC]

You stated that

" I pray differently than you.
While you focus on the negative, asking for repeated forgiveness."

Forgive me if I took this wrong, however I don't "focus" on the "negative and asking for "repeated forgiveness"

It is part of my pray life and, as I have stated already, not the "focus" of it.

Okay - according to you, you do repeatedly ask for forgiveness, but do not view that as a negative or focusing on a negative.

Could you address;

And you did not address my presenting validating scripture, that you questioned.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Is that Scripture, for you, sufficient, that a man born of God, does not sin?

And I made a further comment about a difference between us, which you did not address. I revealed my standing.
Is your standing in line with 1 Thes 5? and 1 John 3:9?

It seems we do have a difference.
I Trust the God of peace; HAS sanctified me WHOLLY. My WHOLE spirit, my WHOLE soul, my WHOLE body, is preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I am not seeing you making a declaration of your standing.

1 Thes 5
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thanks.
God Bless,
SBC

 

[JacksBratt]

Okay - according to you, you do repeatedly ask for forgiveness, but do not view that as a negative or focusing on a negative.

Could you address;

And you did not address my presenting validating scripture, that you questioned.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Is that Scripture, for you, sufficient, that a man born of God, does not sin?

And I made a further comment about a difference between us, which you did not address. I revealed my standing.
Is your standing in line with 1 Thes 5? and 1 John 3:9?

It seems we do have a difference.
I Trust the God of peace; HAS sanctified me WHOLLY. My WHOLE spirit, my WHOLE soul, my WHOLE body, is preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I am not seeing you making a declaration of your standing.

1 Thes 5
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thanks.
God Bless,
SBC

Well, I have been busy...at my job.

So, I took a quick look.

I found this, below, from the webpage: Can a true Christian sin or not? | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

It pretty much sums it up for what I believe...So, instead of trying to explain it myself....here is the meat of it....

• Yes, he can sin
  • 1 John 1:8-10
    • "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (NASB)
    • "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (NKJV)
• No, he cannot sin
  • 1 John 3:9,
    • "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (NASB)
    • "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." (NKJV)
  • 1 John 5:18,
    • "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him." (NASB)
    • "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him." (NKJV)

Is John contradicting himself when he says in one verse that if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves (1 John 1:8), and yet he also says the one who is a Christian cannot sin (1 John 3:9; 5:18 NKJV)? There is no contradiction, but to see why we will need to look at the original Greek language.



Conclusion
There is no contradiction. What is happening is that John is saying that the one who is born again does not habitually abide in sin. He may fall into it, but he does not practice it as a lifestyle. The nuances of the Greek language are not carried over to the English, but when we understand what is happening, we then see there is no problem.

Finally, any Christian who would say that he does not sin anymore fails to agree with 1 John 1:8 which says, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." He would then be self-deceived.

So, to avoid confusion..... I fall into sin. I don't wake up and plan to sin. I sin, knowingly, from time to time, and unintentionally at other times.

I do not need to get "re-born again" ... But, I do need to reconnect with Christ and fess up to what I have done and ask to be forgiven.......regularly.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It is not ME, that delineates, it is God's word.

The wages of sin is death, not lack of rewards.

So Christ didn't pay those wages for us? We pay those wages?

Because if you believe that Christ paid those wages than it was done 2,000 years ago and we only accept the grace He gave us by His death and shed blood.

That is what you are saying, if we can loose it, Christ's blood is not enough.

If we can loose it because of our own sin, than Christ did not pay for them.

 

[1stcenturylady]

These two scriptures do not prove that future sins are not forgiven in any way. Nor does it say that it effects salvation

Where are your scriptures?