Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

[SBC]

Well, I did say I was confused. And I read what you wrote a number of times.

Do you believe, you are saved and born of God?

Yes, because I now have the power to not sin. If I didn't have this power, then I wouldn't belong to Christ. Romans 8:9

Do you also believe, being saved and born of God, excludes your flesh?

The carnal nature is dead. My flesh and bones are growing old and will eventually decay altogether. But, I will be then given a new body.

And thus, while born of God, your natural flesh still sins?

No, not willfully which is knowingly.

And thus, while born of God, your natural flesh still sins?

Can you answer, the same question, according to Scripture?

Matt 5
[37] But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay:

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Christ commanded, "Be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect"; in Luke's version, "Be merciful, even as Your Father is merciful". What does St. Paul say? "Be imitators of God".

To fall short, to miss the mark, that's sin.

It would seem that you would prefer to identify "sin" as only those things which you yourself aren't guilty of, rather than what you might be guilty of. Christ said "Love your neighbor", not loving your neighbor is a violation of the commandment. What else does Christ say? "Why do you try and remove the speck from your neighbor's eye? First remove the log from your own eye". It's easy to be self-righteous, straining at gnats while swallowing camels, and being a white washed sepulcher. But Christ our Lord demands more from us, He demands that we pick up our cross and follow Him, and to love as He loved, and to suffer as He suffered, and to serve as He served. And if you are honest, you must admit that you do not, neither do I--none of us do.

The Christian doesn't say, "Lord, I thank You that I am not like all those sinners over there. Look at all the good I do!"

The Christian says, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner."

-CryptoLutheran

1. Christ when he says be ye perfect is referring to sin specifically not being the equalivant of God or a complete perfect diety.

2.. It would seem that your assumption that i'm trying to label sins as being things i'm not guilty of is wrong. I've committed fornication before being saved, I've lied, I've lusted, and I've had variance. I'm just going off the bible..the bible list sins and even provides examples of them... but yet people add to the definition to preserve some free sin pass philosophy.


3. I do love my neighbor so I don't see where you're going with that.

4. So Jesus tells us to pick up our cross and follow him.... you then proceed to proudly declare that you don't do that and try to convince me to submit that I am not saved and I don't do that either and that I don't suffer etc.

The bible says that being then made free from sin a person becomes a servant of righteousness not that they declare they are sinners. The bible also says that those that are righteous actually suffer and endure many afflictions despite what you try to claim. ALso I am loving others like he loved us... so I can't agree with you there.

5. Also how do you pick up a cross and follow him?

acts 2:38/Mathew 16:24, Mark 8:34 etc.

Repentence=crusifiction

baptism=burial

Holy Ghost reception=resurrection "as many as ae led by the spirit are the Sons of God" "if anyman be in chris jesus he is a new creature.

 

[JacksBratt]

Your conclusion would be thus in error.
But then it is not you, who forgave me and freed me from sin.
Perhaps someday, the same will be for you.

Hey, they were your words not mine....

You, then, reinforce my conclusion in post #477

"Some don't seem to get it.
All ones sins are forgiven. Period. Thereafter a born again man can not commit sin. Period."

I think what you have going on here is you are not a sinner "theoretically". As 2tim_215 stated in post #470: "once we get "born again" we now have the ability to stop sinning "theoretically"

I can wrap my head around it by the perception that even though we have committed a sinful act, like taking a pack of printer paper home from work for personal use, for instance, Christ forgives us for it even if we don't ask Him to. In this sense, we are sinless, still, and "theoretically" not a sinner.

However, in reality we sinned and should go to God in prayer, confess the sin and ask for forgiveness and the strength to not repeat the act.

Maybe you can explain, in your own words, the difference in the thinking here:

Say you are sitting on a park bench across from an outdoor market. A man walks along the market row and you observe him take an apple and eat it as he is walking. He never pays for the apple.

SO.... if he is a believer... no sin was committed because he cannot sin... Period (your words)
..........if he is a non believer.... sin was committed.

No scripture in the world is going to make this scenario biblical.

 

[Almost there]

Seems you are implying a contradiction, without identifying a contradiction.

God Bless,
SBC

Yeah, I was bringing it up holistically - just the concept. Sometimes it is very difficult to convert the original greek or hebrew into english without cosidering multiple possible meanings. Kinda like "in the flesh" (as in, you occupy a physical body) and "in the flesh" (as in, you are living for the flesh)

When James says you no longer sin in English bibles, does it mean you no longer commit sins, or does it mean the sins you commit are no longer counted against you? That sort of thing. And one way to determine which is correct is to compare it to other scriptures on the same subject as they are translated to English.

Or better yet, become a greek scholar.

 

[Almost there]

I disagree. I know of no Scripture saying to BELIEVE in mankind.

When I discussed my children sinning against me, I was thinking more along the lines of sin being missing the mark or going against someone, not whether or not you "believe in them".

 

[Almost there]

The "works" Paul was talking about was circumcision, keeping special days, and eating only clean meat. These are all outward works. Not sinning is not a "work," it is a command. Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep my commandments."

Not sinning is definitely "work" as long as I am in this earthly tent. Again, it was such hard work for Jesus that he sweat blood. And since it is work, it is "a" work.

 

[1stcenturylady]

And thus, while born of God, your natural flesh still sins?

Can you answer, the same question, according to Scripture?

Matt 5
[37] But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay:

God Bless,
SBC

To be absolutely clear, are you talking about the body/flesh or the carnal nature/flesh?

 

[Almost there]

Then I won't be able to convince you.

James 1 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

A constant prayer of mine.

FWIW, I have a job that involves a 3 hour commute for the last four years. I have the bible on a thumb drive in the dash. It has been a real eye opener to LISTEN to the bible over and over and in sections repeated. It opened my eyes to his personality in a way I had not really picked up just by reading. I find that a lot of my interpretation of "perplexing" scripture is based on a foundation of understanding His personality and history of dealing with people.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Not sinning is definitely "work" as long as I am in this earthly tent. Again, it was such hard work for Jesus that he sweat blood. And since it is work, it is "a" work.

I was in church for 30 years before I got the power needed to not sin. It was no longer me, but Christ in me didn't sin. So I didn't have anything to do with it, so it wasn't MY works. Would you like me to send you my testimony, privately?

 

[1stcenturylady]

A constant prayer of mine.

FWIW, I have a job that involves a 3 hour commute for the last four years. I have the bible on a thumb drive in the dash. It has been a real eye opener to LISTEN to the bible over and over and in sections repeated. It opened my eyes to his personality in a way I had not really picked up just by reading. I find that a lot of my interpretation of "perplexing" scripture is based on a foundation of understanding His personality and history of dealing with people.

You'll get there. Your desire is to know God. "Seek God with all your heart, and all these things shall be given unto you." And that includes supernatural power not to sin. We are new creations, and our body will join up with our mind and spirit eventually.

 

[1stcenturylady]

A constant prayer of mine.

FWIW, I have a job that involves a 3 hour commute for the last four years. I have the bible on a thumb drive in the dash. It has been a real eye opener to LISTEN to the bible over and over and in sections repeated. It opened my eyes to his personality in a way I had not really picked up just by reading. I find that a lot of my interpretation of "perplexing" scripture is based on a foundation of understanding His personality and history of dealing with people.

What is FWIW?

 

[Almost there]

I was in church for 30 years before I got the power needed to not sin. It was no longer me, but Christ in me didn't sin. So I didn't have anything to do with it, so it wasn't MY works. Would you like me to send you my testimony, privately?

Sure!

BTW, I notice in my life that it is something that progresses. It is easier and easier to choose the right path, but no, I'm not perfected yet.

The only "feeling" sort of thing I've had was when a miracle was performed around 18 years ago.

 

[Almost there]

What is FWIW?

For what it's worth.

BTW, whenever you see those kind of acronyms, just type them into google. Most of the time it gets it right. Like AFAIK, which means "And for all I know".

I've been involved in religious and political forums since 1998, though I'm new here.

I made a conscious decision today to abandon the political stuff and go full Christian, where it actually matters. And here I am.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Sure!

BTW, I notice in my life that it is something that progresses. It is easier and easier to choose the right path, but no, I'm not perfected yet.

The only "feeling" sort of thing I've had was when a miracle was performed around 18 years ago.

I'll send it to you. Before that night in 1977 I never even saw an answer to prayer. After that night, I always knew what God wanted me to pray, and it would always come to pass. It put a whole new meaning to "My sheep hear My voice."

I've had a number of miracles. Even one on the scale of water into wine!

 

[SBC]

Maybe you can explain, in your own words, the difference in the thinking here:

Say you are sitting on a park bench across from an outdoor market. A man walks along the market row and you observe him take an apple and eat it as he is walking. He never pays for the apple.

SO.... if he is a believer... no sin was committed because he cannot sin... Period (your words)
..........if he is a non believer.... sin was committed.

Correct.

No scripture in the world is going to make this scenario biblical.

1) Sin against God is disbelief in God.
2) Sin against God is only forgiven by God.
3) Nothing whatsoever revealed the man believed or didn't believe in God.
4) Nothing whatsoever revealed IF the vendor's shop was mans shop or another with permission to take and eat at his pleasure.

A believing and forgiven man, IS indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
I do not believe the Holy Spirit dwells in Sin.

If you believe you are indwelt with the Holy Spirit AND continue to commit sin ~
is it reasonable to believe, YOU believe the Holy Spirit Can and Does dwell in sin?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Almost there]

is it reasonable to believe, YOU believe the Holy Spirit Can and Does dwell in sin?

God Bless,
SBC

I have to say that I think the Holy Spirit dwells in sin the same way WD40 can "dwell" in water. i.e. "WD" stands for "Water Displacement". So when the Holy spirit dwells "in" sin, it displaces the sin.

 

[SBC]

Yeah, I was bringing it up holistically - just the concept. Sometimes it is very difficult to convert the original greek or hebrew into english without cosidering multiple possible meanings. Kinda like "in the flesh" (as in, you occupy a physical body) and "in the flesh" (as in, you are living for the flesh)

When James says you no longer sin in English bibles, does it mean you no longer commit sins, or does it mean the sins you commit are no longer counted against you? That sort of thing. And one way to determine which is correct is to compare it to other scriptures on the same subject as they are translated to English.

Or better yet, become a greek scholar.

A man born of God no longer commits sin.
To do so, the indwelling Holy Spirit would be doing what, while the man was committing sin?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Almost there]

A man born of God no longer commits sin.
To do so, the indwelling Holy Spirit would be doing what, while the man was committing sin?

God Bless,
SBC

I don't know. What would he be doing?

I've never met a man that never commits sin. Not one. Well, except for Christ. But I've not met his flesh - yet.

Maybe I need to keep looking...

 

[SBC]

I have to say that I think the Holy Spirit dwells in sin the same way WD40 can "dwell" in water. i.e. "WD" stands for "Water Displacement". So when the Holy spirit dwells "in" sin, it displaces the sin.

Oh, yipes. I'll pass on your analogy and stick with Scripture.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SeventyOne]

A man born of God no longer commits sin.
To do so, the indwelling Holy Spirit would be doing what, while the man was committing sin?

God Bless,
SBC

How do you account for the sin of Peter in Galatians 3? Was he not born of God?