proving evolution as just a "theory"

[Kenny'sID]

I don't quite see why an atheist, who believes neither in God, nor Hell, nor the divine authorship of the Bible, should think that way.

I understand.

The best hint I can provide...sometimes what people say they believe and what's inside, are two different things. Also their actions sometimes give them away, sometime not. As I've said before, if I didn't believe Micky Mouse created the universe, there is no way I'd go to any site and try to convince those that do, otherwise, yet the Atheist does come here, and why bother if they don't believe anything so ridiculous. Sure they'll give all kinds of reasons for why they do, but to me, only one thing makes sense, they, at the very least, are not sure.

I've always thought that we all know from the core that God is God, it may even be biblical.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Ancient societies are witnesses to the fact and further verify many Biblical accounts. The fact that the most technologically advanced Sumarian society is never taught in schools cannot be, but a conscious and wilful decision to censor it from the curriculum of schools across the western world's education system. This act is not a conspiracy theory, but is a conspiracy fact.

As the saying goes....

"Can you handle the TRUTH!"

The truth that you really have no position to attack evolution from and you're just making up rubbish to try and make yourself feel smart? Yeah, I can handle that truth.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You know that there are far easier ways to disbelieve in hell or god than spending 150+ years concocting a scientific theory based on the work of thousands of scientists through multiple generations, countries, nationalities, religious backgrounds resulting in millions of published works, teaching at higher universities, and the inclusion of museums, governments, industry, etc.

I mean, it seems like an awful lot of work when base disbelief is far simpler than that. Just basic philosophical routes can get you disbelief in god and the Christian faith. No need for all the science-y stuff.

If those easier ways would work, but those ways wouldn't bring others to our way of thinking so easily, there has to be a pretend proof. Not to mention the fact they themselves aren't so easily convinced with "base disbelief" they have to prove it to themselves.

 

[Speedwell]

I understand.

The best hint I can provide...sometimes what people say they believe and what's inside, are two different things. Also their actions sometimes give them away, sometime not. As I've said before, if I didn't believe Micky Mouse created the universe, there is no way I'd go to any site and try to convince those that do, otherwise, yet the Atheist does come here, and why bother if they don't believe anything so ridiculous. Sure they'll give all kinds of reasons for why they do, but to me, only one thing makes sense, they, at the very least, are not sure.

I've always thought that we all know from the core that God is God, it may even be biblical.

Here's the story I like to tell about that: Seventh-Day Adventists don't eat meat. They think the Bible tells them not to. And you know what? Nobody else cares. But what do you think would happen if they started agitating to have meat meals removed from public school cafeterias?

It's the political agenda which attracts the opposition--and why it is opposition from theists as well as atheists.. If so many creationists weren't pushing to have creationism taught in public schools (along with fundamentalist Protestant prayer and Bible study) there wouldn't be so much opposition. If so many creationists weren't pushing to have their version of "Christian values" made public policy there wouldn't be a forum like this one, any more than there is a forum for people to argue against the SDA's vegetarianism.
Nobody cares what you believe. Nobody cares if you evangelize for it. But as long as any of you seek to enforce it by law on your unwilling fellow citizens you will be opposed.

 

[xianghua]

Why? Why should a creator create equal numbers of chromosomes in different species? All primates share a lot of their DNA. Are you predicting that they all originally had the same number of chromosomes? How about all mammals? They share a lot of their DNA, too.

actually even some related species have different chromosome number. so i dont think that evolution predict the chromosome number. but lets say for the sake of the argument that you are right. so what? you already agree that this fusion isnt evidence for a common descent rather then a common designer. so the claim about fusion as evidence for evolution is meaningless.

It's not my argument. You're the one arguing that they couldn't evolve naturally, and you're the one who's supposed to be supplying evidence. So far, your entire argument consists of a photo of a fan.

so what side has the burden of proof? the side who claiming that a motor is evidence for design, or the side who claiming that a motor isn't evidence for design? remember that according to our knowledge so far any motor is evidence for design.

 

[Speedwell]

remember that according to our knowledge so far any motor is evidence for design.

"Our" knowledge? Or just yours? Remember, functionality and complexity in themselves are not evidence of design. That's what my knowledge tells me. I can't conclude that a motor is designed just because of its function or complexity. I can only conclude design if I find evidence of human manufacture. Otherwise there is no way to tell if it was designed or not.

But really, we are not in equivalent situations. I don't have to disprove design and I'm not interested in doing so. You must prove design or your argument falls apart.

 

[The Times]

Absolutely.



Some will tell us these days, at least here on the boards, that the purpose is not to deny God, that one has nothing to do with the other, but it is. It's tricky that way. A Christian might finally come to believe evolution because it does not deny God but as you say to deny he created the world is to deny him and make a liar out of his word.

The whole idea is to do away with God, so they can do away with Hell, so they can live how they wish and pretend there are no consequences. It's much easier to pretend when we can get others to go along with the delusion.

I'll say it again, "God" just makes sense, the alternative is ridiculous, try as they will to make it otherwise.

You are 100% correct, there is no excuse for those that say that there is no God. They have wilfully and consciously made a choice to go against all logic and to go against all rationale thinking.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Here's the story I like to tell about that: Seventh-Day Adventists don't eat meat. They think the Bible tells them not to. And you know what? Nobody else cares. But what do you think would happen if they started agitating to have meat meals removed from public school cafeterias?

It's the political agenda which attracts the opposition--and why it is opposition from theists as well as atheists.. If so many creationists weren't pushing to have creationism taught in public schools (along with fundamentalist Protestant prayer and Bible study) there wouldn't be so much opposition. If so many creationists weren't pushing to have their version of "Christian values" made public policy there wouldn't be a forum like this one, any more than there is a forum for people to argue against the SDA's vegetarianism.
Nobody cares what you believe. Nobody cares if you evangelize for it. But as long as any of you seek to enforce it by law on your unwilling fellow citizens you will be opposed.

Pushing creation in public schools? Surely you are paying more attention than that? If anything we are pushing for equal time. They took creation, and pretty much God out of school in the 60's and replaced it with a theory being taught as fact, that some, like me, think is a flat out lie, and you say *we* will be opposed? But you don't think it fair to oppose your side?

Very selfish notion....

But we can see where that's gotten us over the years.

.

 

[Gene2memE]

Pushing creation in public schools? Surely you are paying more attention than that? If anything we are pushing for equal time.

You're pushing a false equivalency. In the science class room, Christian creationism has exactly the same level of legitimacy as the creation stories of all other religions (i.e. zero).

So, if you get equal time to teach your creation myth when in class, then all the other religions get equal time to teach their creation myth.

Deal?

They took creation, and pretty much God out of school in the 60's and replaced it with a theory being taught as fact, that some, like me, think is a flat out lie, and you say *we* will be opposed?

Which theory are you referring to? Evolutionary biology? The Big Bang? Planetary formation? Stellar formation? Something else?

All of these are well evidenced explanations of what is observed in nature - although there is still some controversy about the latter pair.

The fact that you think a scientific theory is "a flat out lie" doesn't actually mean that it's wrong - it just means that you are opposed to it because of your preconceived religious views. Until it can be convincingly demonstrated where the errors are AND a superior alternative is produced, a scientific theory pretty much stays in place.

Got any ideas?

 

[Speedwell]

Pushing creation in public schools? Surely you are paying more attention than that? If anything we are pushing for equal time. They took creation, and pretty much God out of school in the 60's and replaced it with a theory being taught as fact, that some, like me, think is a flat out lie, and you say *we* will be opposed? But you don't think it fair to oppose your side?

Very selfish notion....

But we can see where that's gotten us over the years.

.

What makes you think that your theology should be taught in public school classes at all, much less given "equal time" with science?

 

[Kenny'sID]

So, if you get equal time to teach your creation myth when the all the other religions get equal time to teach their creation myth.

Deal?

Myth? and your evolution myth of nothing from nothing and then it happened by itself? Please, you can't seriously be questioning creationism.

Sure, if you can get them to allow the evolution nonsense, then I guess they will allow any myth, so, why not let em all have a shot, they likely make more sense than a boom from nothing and eventually we are all here.....deal?

All of these are well evidenced explanations of what is observed in nature - although there is still some controversy about the latter pair.

No controversy here, it's a joke, plain and simple, that is of course unless you can prove any one of those things is a fact.

Let's start at the beginning, the big bang. I'll be waiting and no excuses please.

 

[Kenny'sID]

What makes you think that your theology should be taught in public school classes at all, much less given "equal time" with science?

What makes you think yours should?

 

[Speedwell]

What makes you think yours should?

I don't think so. I think only science should be taught in science class.

But since you mention it, the Roman Catholics are the largest Christian denomination in the country. How about teaching their theology in science class?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

TORAH = Righteousness .
Most Religion = Opposed to people being Righteous.
Sin = Moving Away from TORAH, approving of not being Righteous.

Train up a child in Righteousness (the way he should go), and when he is older he will not depart from it.

i.e. if TORAH is taught to all, no killing, no stealing, no adultery, no divorce, no gays, no idolatry, no false gods, no coveting, no greed, no pharmakeia, no hurting another person , always doing what is best for others ... ... ....
i.e. all good results ....

Teach anything anti-TORAH , publically or privately, what results ? sin: war, oppression, adultery, murder/killing/ harming others, not doing what's best for others, selfishness, idolatry.... (rampant TODAY throughout the whole world) ...

So then, why teach TORAH ? ....
Why not teach people to sin ? ....

 

[Audacious]

TORAH = Righteousness .
Most Religion = Opposed to people being Righteous.
Sin = Moving Away from TORAH, approving of not being Righteous.

Train up a child in Righteousness (the way he should go), and when he is older he will not depart from it.

i.e. if TORAH is taught to all, no killing, no stealing, no adultery, no divorce, no gays, no idolatry, no false gods, no coveting, no greed, no pharmakeia, no hurting another person , always doing what is best for others ... ... ....
i.e. all good results ....

Teach anything anti-TORAH , publically or privately, what results ? sin: war, oppression, adultery, murder/killing/ harming others, not doing what's best for others, selfishness, idolatry.... (rampant TODAY throughout the whole world) ...

So then, why teach TORAH ? ....
Why not teach people to sin ? ....

I don't know about you, but my high school didn't do any teaching me to sin. I learned a lot of nice things!

I do wish they had included the trail of tears in American history, though. Or the WW2 camps that unlawfully detained Japanese-Americans.

 

[Gene2memE]

Myth?

Yes, myth.

Definition:

1. A traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining a natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.
2. A widely held but false belief or idea​

Christian creationism fits both.

and your evolution myth of nothing from nothing and then it happened by itself?

Big Bang cosmology doesn't deal with "nothing from nothing and then it happened by itself"

Evolutionary biology doesn't deal with "nothing from nothing and then it happened by itself"

So, I'm left wondering what it is exactly you're talking about?

Please, you can't seriously be questioning creationism.

I don't need to seriously question creationism, as it does not require serious attention. It is a nonsense, pushed by individuals that can't deal with reality as it is presented to them.

Sure, if you can get them to allow the evolution nonsense, then I guess they will allow any myth, so, why not let em all have a shot, they likely make more sense than a boom from nothing and eventually we are all here.....deal?

Again, neither Big Bang cosmology or evolutionary biology deals with "boom from nothing and eventually we are all here". If you've got an objection to either theory, it would help you if you actually argued against what they actually say.

No controversy here, it's a joke, plain and simple, that is of course unless you can prove any one of those things is a fact.

Let's start at the beginning, the big bang. I'll be waiting and no excuses please.

Big Bang:

Evolutionary biology:

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't know about you, but my high school didn't do any teaching me to sin. I learned a lot of nice things!

This was tested long ago.
The results might or might not be published this year.
For now, relax..... there's nothing else to do about this.

 

[pitabread]

If those easier ways would work, but those ways wouldn't bring others to our way of thinking so easily, there has to be a pretend proof. Not to mention the fact they themselves aren't so easily convinced with "base disbelief" they have to prove it to themselves.

Again, you're suggesting that a 150+ years worth of development of a biological theory of evolution by thousands upon thousands of scientists of various faiths, nationalities, generations, etc, publishing millions of papers of research, and taught in universities and used by industry, is for the purpose of disbelief in the Christian faith.

Which is just nonsense. Especially since there is nothing inherent to disbelief in God or Christianity specifically within the context of the theory of evolution, which is merely a theory to explain biological change in the natural world.

It's the high conceit of creationists/Biblical literalists to think this is about all them. It's not.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

is for the purpose of disbelief in the Christian faith.

This is EXACTLY what YHWH says in HIS WORD,
and to HIS children.

 

[pitabread]

This is EXACTLY what YHWH says in HIS WORD,
and to HIS children.