Who Was Moses?

[visionary]

Israel is the branches that were cut off.

roots?

 

[Open Heart]

roots?

Moshiach

 

[Open Heart]

If the elect are Israel. If God's people (Israel) is the only group to ever be called sheep. If Israel is the only group called the children of God, chosen, and the only group ever called to be holy, then yes it matters. Especially since there are only 12 inheritances, and 12 gates - one for each tribe of Israel.

There are two different elections. The first election was election to be a light to the Gentiles, the promise of the Land--it had nothing to do with eternal life. The afterlife is not mentioned in the Torah. This election is Israel. The second election is to eternal life, and belongs to the Church. It is similar for being children of God--two families.

 

[Open Heart]

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

I never said Israel is cast away. Israel is still beloved for example (Romans 11:28-29). Her covenant endures (see my taglines). But Israel is no longer the Oracle of God -- it is not Israel which proclaims the Gospel. They are the branches which have been cut off until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

 

[Devin P]

There are two different elections. The first election was election to be a light to the Gentiles, the promise of the Land--it had nothing to do with eternal life. The afterlife is not mentioned in the Torah. This election is Israel. The second election is to eternal life, and belongs to the Church. It is similar for being children of God--two families.

Show me in the scriptures, with scriptures where this is?

How long will you ignore the fact that according to Torah, all strangers had to do, was live according to how God commanded Israel, to become Israel?

 

[Devin P]

There's no point to argue. The Torah disproves you, and that's all that matters. Live as Israel, become Israel. As God said it, so shall it be.

 

[pat34lee]

No,it's a different species that looks like an olive.

Nope. Different thing altogether. What we call wild olives
are native to America, they are not olives at all, and they
were unknown in biblical days.
ENH340/ST181: Cordia boissieri: Wild Olive

 

[pat34lee]

I'm sorry, but even if Knesset and Ekklesia both translate as Assembly, doesn't mean they refer to the same kind of assembly. An assembly of a tribal people is quite different than an assembly of believers. Furthermore, the assembly of the tribal people met for different reasons than the assembly of believers -- the assembly of believers met, i.e., to break bread.

No. They both met because Yahweh commanded it.

 

[Open Heart]

Show me in the scriptures, with scriptures where this is?

The covenant God made with Abraham (and his descendants through Israel): Genesis 15:18 That day the Lord cut a covenant with Abram: “To your descendants I give this land, from Egypt’s river to the great Euphrates."

The New Covenant that God made with the Church, meaning believers in Him: John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

How long will you ignore the fact that according to Torah, all strangers had to do, was live according to how God commanded Israel, to become Israel?

These sojourners were ACCEPTED by Israel as part of Israel. That is NOT TRUE of those who "believe in Yeshua and obey the commandments."

 

[Devin P]

The covenant God made with Abraham (and his descendants through Israel): Genesis 15:18 That day the Lord cut a covenant with Abram: “To your descendants I give this land, from Egypt’s river to the great Euphrates."

The New Covenant that God made with the Church, meaning believers in Him: John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

This isn't a new covenant.. it was written about long before the prophets, and long before David. It was written and foretold in Genesis, in the lineage between Adam and Noah.

Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow;
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared Shall come down
Enoch Teaching
Methuselah His death shall bring
Lamech The Despairing
Noah Rest, or comfort.
That's rather remarkable:

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

It was foretold in Deuteronomy 4:20-31.

There's nothing "new" about that. That was how God planned to care for His children since the beginning.

These sojourners were ACCEPTED by Israel as part of Israel. That is NOT TRUE of those who "believe in Yeshua and obey the commandments."

Well, that is entirely your opinion. You admit Jesus came to save, yet ignore the fact that He Himself said He only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[Open Heart]

Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow;
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared Shall come down
Enoch Teaching
Methuselah His death shall bring
Lamech The Despairing
Noah Rest, or comfort.
That's rather remarkable:

I have no idea what this is. You do this a lot: post things that make no sense. This is why I don't reply to everything you post.

This isn't a new covenant.. it was written about long before the prophets, and long before David. It was written and foretold in Genesis, in the lineage between Adam and Noah.


Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

It was foretold in Deuteronomy 4:20-31.

There's nothing "new" about that. That was how God planned to care for His children since the beginning.

1. It is referred to as the New Covenant in the Bible.
2. Deuteronomy 4:20-31 makes no mention of eternal life. There is no mention of eternal life in the entire Torah.

Well, that is entirely your opinion. You admit Jesus came to save, yet ignore the fact that He Himself said He only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

We've already been over this. I've explained that the lost sheep of Israel are sinful Jews. I've given all the reasons why this must be so. You never respond to my reasons, which means you have no answers. All you do is keep repeating your claims, which have no basis.

 

[chunkofcoal]

There's no point to argue. The Torah disproves you, and that's all that matters. Live as Israel, become Israel. As God said it, so shall it be.

Are you planning to convert to Judaism?

 

[Devin P]

Are you planning to convert to Judaism?

No. I just want to do the things that Jesus asks us to do. We are called to walk as He walked, and that's what I'm striving for. The apostles in the NT observed the biblical feasts, and kept Torah, and followers of the Messiah did until the 3rd century when the Romans forced them to submit to the way the majority of people view christianity today.

 

[Open Heart]

Are you planning to convert to Judaism?

Nope. I'm quite happy being a Messianic Jew, a Hebrew Catholic.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Nope. I'm quite happy being a Messianic Jew, a Hebrew Catholic.

I was asking Devin.
I'm glad you are happy with your choices, though!

 

[Devin P]

I have no idea what this is. You do this a lot: post things that make no sense. This is why I don't reply to everything you post.

This is the order of how the names are written in Genesis. It's the genealogy between Adam and Noah.

Each name has a meaning in Hebrew.

Adam - Man, Seth - Appointed, etc, etc.

It's a message that our Father wrote for us in Genesis. Well, had Moses write, but you know what I mean.

1. It is referred to as the New Covenant in the Bible.
2. Deuteronomy 4:20-31 makes no mention of eternal life. There is no mention of eternal life in the entire Torah.

1. It is, but it's also shown in Romans 7, that the only "new" thing about it, is the priesthood.

2. It's the same exact thing that is written about in the prophets, written in the same exact way, and all of these messages were written about the messiah. About God's mercies. It's why, only a few people knew about God's mercy. It's why Paul says that Jesus made these things manifest. Not because Jesus created them. He simply revealed them. He is the revealing of God's forgiving, merciful side, that had been hidden to most, and only shown to a few, because only a few were allowed by God to see, and could look past the man-made doctrine, into what God wanted everyone to see.

We've already been over this. I've explained that the lost sheep of Israel are sinful Jews. I've given all the reasons why this must be so. You never respond to my reasons, which means you have no answers. All you do is keep repeating your claims, which have no basis.

I do respond, but you ignore my rebuttals.

The law of the adulterous bride. It's unlawful for a man to divorce a woman. Through the hardening of hearts, Moses was given the ability to write up a certificate of divorce. But, as the scriptures say, God originally intended an adulterous bride to simply be put away all the days of her life, or all the days of her husbands life. Only after the death of her Husband, could she remarry. If Jesus died, removing that curse from Israel, then why can gentiles them partake of that wonder? Israel was divorced, never to come back. Until the death of God, fulfilled through Jesus, as the message God laid out for us in Genesis through the lineage between Adam - Noah that I linked above.

He divorced Israel, but then because He loved them so much, He died for them. So that they could be freed from the curse of being a wife, put away. He then resurrected so that they'd have someone to remarry. How do you not see this?

This dispersion, was even fulfilling the law of the cleansing of a leprous home. What did they do? If there was a brick that became leprous, they'd remove the brick, and cast it into an unclean place, and replace the brick. They'd wait, and if more leprosy sprouted throughout the other bricks in the house (Israel) they'd tear down the whole house, and cast all of the bricks, the rubble, the lumber, etc, into an unclean place. Israel was that leprous house. The unclean place, were the nations.

The bible literally. Only. Ever. Calls. One. People. Sheep. Elect. Chosen. Children of God. Sheep. Wheat.

Those people are Israel. There are only 12 inheritances in the millennium reign. There are only 12 gates into the city after the tribulation (all of which have each tribe's name on them)

Your reasons for why Jesus only "came but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel" make no sense, because Jesus is the reason the spirit was poured out. The very fact that God made it so all could join Israel, and Judah took it upon itself to keep gentiles out, means that there were people God intended to be saved, that Judah intentionally excluded. Which means, that since gentiles were originally intended to be included as well (so long as they desired and had a heart for God), that means that undoubtably, gentiles were also predestined to be among Israel. Just as the Egyptians that followed Israel out, becoming Israel that day.

Your arrogance forgets one thing: God always intended for gentiles to become part of Israel. Just because Judah, even to this day tries to keep gentiles out, doesn't mean that God obeys you, and your traditions. God always intended for gentiles to join, and therefore, there are gentiles alive today, that were destined before the beginning to become Israel. Whether or not God will give you eyes to see, and ears to hear this, that's not for me to decide. But it's simple logic. God said gentiles can join, Judah fought against Him. If gentiles could join from the beginning, gentiles were intended to join. Nothing aside from the priesthood changed, meaning gentiles can still join. Judah can be against this all they want, I don't really care. I'm no longer a gentile, because a gentile believer is an oxymoron. Gentile simply means one who isn't in covenant with our Father. I believe, therefore I'm no longer out of covenant.

Whether it's Esau getting jumped over, or Ephraim getting blessed instead of Manasseh. Bloodline doesn't matter when it comes to salvation, or promises. It only mattered when securing the Messiah.

Believe what you must. Tradition isn't worth it's weight in salt. That's exactly what Jesus came to do away with. There's a reason many Jews reject Jesus. It's because He doesn't make sense preached the way modern day christianity preaches Him. They have the wrong idea about Him. They think He did away with the Torah.

Why would a Messiah, who can't sin, teach His disciples that it's okay for gentiles to disobey Torah, when He preached the exact same gospel that His father preached? His Father preached a gospel that commanded gentiles to keep Torah, so if Jesus taught against that considering the Torah says the exact opposite, He sinned.

 

[Open Heart]

This is the order of how the names are written in Genesis. It's the genealogy between Adam and Noah.

And it relates to our conversation how? It's completely random remarks. Don't expect me to reply when you do this.

 

[Devin P]

And it relates to our conversation how? It's completely random remarks. Don't expect me to reply when you do this.

... Did you even look at it? The meaning of each of the names when put together, in the exact same order the bible puts them in, spells out a message

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

You're going to tell me that this message, has nothing to do with the early scriptures foretelling of Jesus?

If you're going to try and say that that message isn't foretelling of Jesus, then there's not even a point to continue with the discussion. It was completely applicable, you just didn't read it.

 

[Open Heart]

The very fact that God made it so all could join Israel, and Judah took it upon itself to keep gentiles out, means that there were people God intended to be saved, that Judah intentionally excluded.

You are mistaken, and scripture proves it. The Pharisees were extremely great Missionaries of Torah. At one point in history, 10% of the Roman empire was Jewish, largely because of converts. And that doesn't count the God-fearers: Gentiles such as Cornelius who believed Jewish teachings but didn't take on the covenant and the obligations of the Mosaic commandments. Jesus himself remarked about how the Pharisees would travel over land and sea to win a single convert. (Matthew 23:15)

 

[Open Heart]

I do respond, but you ignore my rebuttals.

You reply, but your replies do not deal with my arguments. You simply go off into your own set of arguments.